Annual dues on a Dec UY contract

[KAT4DISNEY]

I would personally not reimburse for Dec 2020 dues if you didn't get points until Dec. I'd be ok with prorating for 1 month though. It is however a common belief with resale brokers that it's appropriate to pay the full calendar year of dues if you are getting points with that corresponding number (in this case 2020). You might have an easier time negotiating a lower price per point to compensate.

As mentioned we all pay on calendar year and for a December UY that actually means the 2020 calendar year dues are for 11 months of 2019 points and 1 month of 2020 points since you receive what are called 2020 points in the last month of the year. The guide on this comes from what DVC does when collecting dues on direct sales and is really only obvious with a new resort where a unit may not be available yet and you don't receive current point but have to wait. For example if that were the case with a Dec UY, you were purchasing Feb 1, 2020 and your first points would be Dec 2020 then the dues would be prorated from Dec 1st to the end of the year - 31 days. If you were buying direct DVC would charge you for 1 month of the 2020 dues and you'd owe the full amount of 2021.

 

[Sandisw]

As a buyer, I would expect to pay dues for any current points purchased. December 2020 points are current, and in full quantity? Buyer would usually reimburse for the dues that were paid for that corresponding year.

Now - to offset that price, go ahead and lower your offer by the dues amount per point. You pay the same as if you got the points for free, but still get to check the box that you paid 2020 dues.

I think this is important, because reimbursing dues for current points is a binary thing. You either do or you don't, and like it or not, the usual thing is to pay those points. Price per point is a fluid thing; the market value of price per point shifts and individual contracts can vary even more. A lower price per point offer, but you pay dues, still gives the seller a chance to feel good and say yes. "I wanted $130 a point, but this guy offered me 122....but my agent advised me that he has seen contracts go at $120...plus this guy is going reimburse me $8 per point for dues. I think this is a good deal." Vs "my agent says that I should get reimbursed for these dues, no deal"

Actually, the current UY points would be Dec 2019. So, the contract is void of current UY points. Most resale brokers, however, take the approach to match the points to the calendar year, not UY.

So, since we are in 2020, and the contract has 2020 UY points...even though that is not the current UY for Dec...they tell the buyer they should be responsible for them. I have taken the approach when I have bought that Disney takes....I will pay for the points if they are there in full, from the date of purchase for the rest of the calendar year. Once, I asked the seller to actually cover the fees, and the other times, I took that into account when I made my offer.

For example, I put in an offer yesterday for a contract and instead of asking to split the dues, I deducted that from my price. Of course, I was offering $25 below asking, and I got them down to $15 below asking, but it was still more than I wanted to pay for the contract.

 

[CastAStone]

At some point, depending on the resort maybe 2041, you will get points on 12/1 and have 62 days to use them. And very possibly still owe MFs on 1/1/42. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable.

 

[D-Trick]

...this seems a bit of a stretch to pay a full years dues for 1 months use of points. I know it's all negotiable but interested to hear other options. December UY contracts always hurt my brain

You say it's "a stretch to pay a full year of dues for 1 months use of points," but how is this any different from the current owner? He/she paid the dues in Jan for points he/she can't use (w/o borrowing) until 11 months later. As mentioned from a PP this statement is incorrect, but shows your reasoning is also flawed.

Since you're receiving all 2020 points, you should reimburse the seller for all 2020 MFs. If it only had half the points, you pay the seller for half. You can try to negotiate the seller paying fees, but I agree with others that you should just lower your p/p offer.

 

[ljlaurajane]

You say it's "a stretch to pay a full year of dues for 1 months use of points," but how is this any different from the current owner? He/she paid the dues in Jan for points he/she can't use (w/o borrowing) until 11 months later. As mentioned from a PP this statement is incorrect, but shows your reasoning is also flawed.

Since you're receiving all 2020 points, you should reimburse the seller for all 2020 MFs. If it only had half the points, you pay the seller for half. You can try to negotiate the seller paying fees, but I agree with others that you should just lower your p/p offer.

I don't think it's fair to say my reasoning is flawed. As others have posted, my reasoning is aligned with that of Disney Direct. And that the current use year for a December contract is currently December 2019 - December 2020, so if no points are available in the current use year, why pay the annual dues on the current use year.

Seems like it can be spun both ways, but interesting to hear from those that are sellers as to the emotive nature of the topic.

 

[New Mouse]

I don't think it's fair to say my reasoning is flawed. As others have posted, my reasoning is aligned with that of Disney Direct. And that the current use year for a December contract is currently December 2019 - December 2020, so if no points are available in the current use year, why pay the annual dues on the current use year.

Seems like it can be spun both ways, but interesting to hear from those that are sellers as to the emotive nature of the topic.

Because you dont pay dues after the last year of the contract...so your theory is wrong. The dues for 2020 are paid for 2020 use year points, its not an opinion.

 

[hlhlaw07]

Because you dont pay dues after the last year of the contract...so your theory is wrong. The dues for 2020 are paid for 2020 use year points, its not an opinion.

Just because you claim something isn’t an opinion, doesn’t actually make it a fact. Since DVC is the one actually charging the dues, and they charge them based on calendar year and not UY, I’m not sure why you are so certain the previous posters theory is wrong.

 

[jarestel]

There's no right or wrong way of thinking when you buy or sell a resale contract. Everything is negotiable and what works in one circumstance may fall flat in another. For example, some sellers might request dues reimbursement for any banked points as part of the deal. Everyone is free to accept, reject, or renegotiate any terms they wish when it comes to resale.

I wouldn't get too hung up on what any other people may or may not do. If you don't like the terms of this contract, there will be another one along shortly!

 

[Lorana]

Because you dont pay dues after the last year of the contract...so your theory is wrong. The dues for 2020 are paid for 2020 use year points, its not an opinion.

except that all points expire January 31 of the expiration year. If you have a Dec UY, you only get 2 months of your last UY of points. And if you purchase direct, you pay prorated dues based on month of purchase.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

Personally, I would not be excited about paying dues for 2020 if the previous owner took the points for December 2019 and has already used them. They got the benefit of the points. They should pay. You will get 1 month of points for calendar year 2020 in December 2020, so you should expect to pay 1 month of the dues. You are buying a stripped contract, so not only would I not like to pay the dues, I would figure the value of the 2019 points and subtract that from my offer as well.

As other posters have said, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If the seller insists that you pay the the MF for 2020, you need to lower your offer and pay them. If it is an emotional issue for them, just reduce your price per point, and you will be just as well off.

Or move on to the next contract.

 

[New Mouse]

Just because you claim something isn’t an opinion, doesn’t actually make it a fact. Since DVC is the one actually charging the dues, and they charge them based on calendar year and not UY, I’m not sure why you are so certain the previous posters theory is wrong.

Because I own a membership and I understand how it works? The question isnt one that requires an opinion, its a yes or no question. The answer is that when I pay my full dues in January of the last year of my contract, I will get my points in December. They will be vaild until the following November, but I will not be charged dues again in Jaunary.

As to whats fair...yes, that is an opinion, but the owner has paid the full dues for their december 2020 points in January 2020.

 

[hlhlaw07]

Because I own a membership and I understand how it works? The question isnt one that requires an opinion, its a yes or no question. The answer is that when I pay my full dues in January of the last year of my contract, I will get my points in December. They will be vaild until the following November, but I will not be charged dues again in Jaunary.

As to whats fair...yes, that is an opinion, but the owner has paid the full dues for their december 2020 points in January 2020.

Again, you can keep saying it but it doesn’t make it true. I too own a membership (as do most of the people on here), and understand how it works, apparently better than you. Disney charges dues for the calendar year, not the UY, which is why when you buy direct from them they prorate the dues depending on when you buy during the year and not depending on what your UY is. If dues had anything to do with UY then someone who bought in July would pay different amounts of prorated dues based on what UY they were paying. But, it doesn’t matter what UY you buy, Disney will charge 6 months worth of prorated dues for any UY bought in the middle of the calendar year. But you keep on believing what you want to believe based on what you think Disney will do for the last year of the contract.

 

[New Mouse]

Again, you can keep saying it but it doesn’t make it true. I too own a membership (as do most of the people on here), and understand how it works, apparently better than you. Disney charges dues for the calendar year, not the UY, which is why when you buy direct from them they prorate the dues depending on when you buy during the year and not depending on what your UY is. If dues had anything to do with UY then someone who bought in July would pay different amounts of prorated dues based on what UY they were paying. But, it doesn’t matter what UY you buy, Disney will charge 6 months worth of prorated dues for any UY bought in the middle of the calendar year. But you keep on believing what you want to believe based on what you think Disney will do for the last year of the contract.

So by your logic, I could get my allocation of points on December 1 at the last year of my contract and Disney will then try to charge me for dues on them in January. What if I had already spent the points in December? Why would I pay?

 

[Lorana]

So by your logic, I could get my allocation of points on December 1 at the last year of my contract and Disney will then try to charge me for dues on them in January. What if I had already spent the points in December? Why would I pay?

Because you own a real estate interest in that property, irrespective of your UY, and you own the following year MF dues, irrespective of that UY. But if you JOIN DVC in December through a Direct Purchase, you will only pay 1 month of MF regardless of your UY and you will owe dues again in January.

For example: I purchase direct points in December, with a December UY. I pay 1 month of dues, then owe again in January.
I purchase direct points in December, with a February UY. I pay 1 month of dues, then owe again in January.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So by your logic, I could get my allocation of points on December 1 at the last year of my contract and Disney will then try to charge me for dues on them in January. What if I had already spent the points in December? Why would I pay?

Any difference is compensated for at the time of purchase, not at the end of the contracts. As I mentioned above, you can tell how dues are calculated per DVC direct rules. Having UY's requires a way to identify points and DVC uses the year they start in to provide that designation but every single UY actually will have "current" points from 2 UY's in each calendar year. A Feb UY will have 1 month that are called current "2019" points and 11 months that are called current "2020" points. A Dec UY though has the opposite where 11 months are called current "2019" points and 1 month that is called current "2020" points during the Jan-Dec 2020 calendar year. However the MF's are calculated for that calendar year - Jan-Dec of 2020. For Feb that's the 1/11 split. For Dec it's the 11/1 split and so on. Remove the thought that 2019 points and 2020 points are anything more than a reference of when the next allotment comes to represent the functional requirement of the UY system. This compares to what you are saying which would require that DVC calculate different dues for each UY since Feb has 11 months of 2020 points in 2020 but Dec only has 1 in the calendar year that you are paying for. If the dues really applied to the points with that referenced number/year each UY would have different calculated MF's that they paid each January.

 

[CarolMN]

Rather a pointless argument, IMO. Correct answer is whatever is mutually agreed to by buyer & seller. It varies by contract. .

 

[New Mouse]

Any difference is compensated for at the time of purchase, not at the end of the contracts. As I mentioned above, you can tell how dues are calculated per DVC direct rules. Having UY's requires a way to identify points and DVC uses the year they start in to provide that designation but every single UY actually will have "current" points from 2 UY's in each calendar year. A Feb UY will have 1 month that are called current "2019" points and 11 months that are called current "2020" points. A Dec UY though has the opposite where 11 months are called current "2019" points and 1 month that is called current "2020" points during the Jan-Dec 2020 calendar year. However the MF's are calculated for that calendar year - Jan-Dec of 2020. For Feb that's the 1/11 split. For Dec it's the 11/1 split and so on. Remove the thought that 2019 points and 2020 points are anything more than a reference of when the next allotment comes to represent the functional requirement of the UY system. This compares to what you are saying which would require that DVC calculate different dues for each UY since Feb has 11 months of 2020 points in 2020 but Dec only has 1 in the calendar year that you are paying for. If the dues really applied to the points with that referenced number/year each UY would have different calculated MF's that they paid each January.

At the end of the day, my contract expires in 2060. I will pay dues in Jan 2060. I will get points in Dec 2060. I will not have dues to pay in jan 2061 which is whats being insinuated.

 

[Sandisw]

At the end of the day, my contract expires in 2060. I will pay dues in Jan 2060. I will get points in Dec 2060. I will not have dues to pay in jan 2061 which is whats being insinuated.

The resort ends in January of 2060. That means your last set of points will be Dec 2059.

Owners will probably be asked to pay one month of dues in January 2060, or I think that months worth of dues will be billed with the January 2059 bill.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

At the end of the day, my contract expires in 2060. I will pay dues in Jan 2060. I will get points in Dec 2060. I will not have dues to pay in jan 2061 which is whats being insinuated.

A quick FYI - the resort end dates are always Jan 31st of the year they list. So BLT is yours? Or else VGC? The last year of points will be 2059 and resorts close Jan 31, 2060. What I kind of guess is that they'll just figure that last month into the 2059 dues.

 

[Iestyn5150]

Could someone help me out with a dues issue I have. I’ve recently purchased 100 direct points at AKV and my contract closed on August 3rd. I was lead to believe dues are paid on a Pro Rata basis, so was assuming to pay the remainder of the year after contract close. I’ve received a bill for $390, which to my calculations is just over 6 months dues. Why am I paying for 6 months when there are less than 5 months of the year left? Any advice anyone??