Andrew Zimmern in trouble for comments about the authenticity of midwest "Chinese" restaurants?

[bcla]

Apparently he's opening his own chain of Chinese-style restaurants (and tiki lounges) and in the interview criticized the authenticity of Midwest Chinese restaurants - calling them (this is a euphemism for what he actually said) "horse puckey". In particularly he called P.F. Chang's a rip-off. I can't say I disagree with him, but that he's the one to say that is what I'm guessing is getting him in hot water.

He did admit that his early work on Bizarre Foods was filled with cultural insensitivity.

http://www.startribune.com/andrew-z...tism-at-his-new-chinese-restaurant/501341412/

Here's the interview (the comments that got him in trouble started at about 10:30):

https://www.fastcompany.com/9027066...re-foods-had-a-cultural-insensitivity-problem

 

[georgina]

Never heard of him, so personally I don't care what he says. There are Chinese restaurants around here that have 2 different menus - one for the large group of patrons who like the Americanized Chinese food and a separate one for those who know real Chinese food. I went once with a Chinese person who ordered off the 'authentic' Chinese menu and the food was quite different.

 

[MillauFr]

Never heard of him, so personally I don't care what he says. There are Chinese restaurants around here that have 2 different menus - one for the large group of patrons who like the Americanized Chinese food and a separate one for those who know real Chinese food. I went once with a Chinese person who ordered off the 'authentic' Chinese menu and the food was quite different.

Ditto. We go to a Chinese restaurant near our house. They give all the white people the crappy menu. If you want the good stuff you need to get the Chinese menu and know how to read Mandarin. Luckily there are plenty of websites that help you translate and what to order.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Ironic

 

[bcla]

Ditto. We go to a Chinese restaurant near our house. They give all the white people the crappy menu. If you want the good stuff you need to get the Chinese menu and know how to read Mandarin. Luckily there are plenty of websites that help you translate and what to order.

Well - just as a minor nitpick, there is no written "Mandarin" language. The Chinese written language is the same regardless of the dialect spoken by the user, although there is simplified vs traditional. I can't read Chinese (know a few words of Mandarin) so I have to bring someone with me who can read it.

How do you translate? It's kind of hard to do it without a person. Trying to figure out a character set can be pretty difficult. I have seen some restaurants that have the special menu translated into English on the other side. There are a lot of Chinese-Americans who are familiar with "authentic" Chinese cuisine but can't read the language. I've also seen menus posted on walls that were made with traditional brush strokes.

 

[RedAngie]

Eh, authenticity is overrated. As long as the food tastes good they can Americanize it all they want.

 

[bcla]

Eh, authenticity is overrated. As long as the food tastes good they can Americanize it all they want.

I tend to agree. I know a lot of people from all over the world or whose families immigrated to the US (and Canada). Enjoying good food is something that's universally appreciated.

But then there's Zimmern saying that P.F. Chang's is a rip-off, which is an opinion that I know quite a few people share. But then there's the issue of a white guy saying it, and acting like he's somehow going to be the white savior with his mall restaurants.

 

[dotfurio]

Given the things I've seen him eat and enjoy on that show I don't think I'll be lining up to eat at one of his restaurants and I'm pefectly happy with non-authentic Chinese food!

 

[bcla]

I think what people are upset with Zimmern about isn't just his knock on the typical midwestern idea of what "Chinese food". It's his "white savior" mentality that he might be "saving souls" by getting people to choose his food over cuisine from restaurants owned by Chinese-American families. For over a century, Chinese immigrant communities were often discriminated against in jobs. They often survived because they could open or work at a restaurant or a laundry. They also couldn't rely on just an ethnic Chinese clientele. They might compromise some on authenticity because that's not what the customers wanted. There's a history of Chinese-American cuisine (mostly based on Taishan-style Cantonese cuisine) that was modified to suit American tastes and often encountering difficulty in obtaining certain ingredients. It may not be authentic to someone from China, but it is authentic in its history in the United States. Many found his explanations insulting to the people who have put their lives into their restaurants, regardless of whether or not some white guy thinks he needs to save customers from horse bleep.

The strange thing is that I think with a lot of Chinese immigrants in all parts of the United States, Zimmern may be wrong. Certainly in St Paul there's a pretty large Chinese-American population that wants authentic food. That's especially true of a University town like St Paul. Maybe Zimmern is thinking that non-Chinese customers won't get the "authentic" menu, but these days I'm not sure if that's the case.

 

[ronandannette]

Eh, authenticity is overrated. As long as the food tastes good they can Americanize it all they want.

I go for dim sum to a renowned local place in Chinatown a couple of times a year. Amongst the dozens of dishes they serve I’m sure some of it must be “authentic” and designed to appeal to native Chinese people. They don’t seem to mind that I prefer to stick with the dumplings, shrimp toast and ginger beef. They make it - I eat it; everybody’s happy!

 

[smiths02]

I used to like people Andrew Zimmern and Anthony Bourdain for their "foodie-ness." Now, it just sounds like elitism. (Even disregarding the cultural insensitivity.)
I'm over it.
The attitude is that if you don't like their food, then you are part of the unwashed masses.

 

[cabanafrau]

I wonder how familiar Andrew Zimmern actually is with the midwest? There are actually places in our area where you can be served up more truly authentic Chinese cuisine -- including egg rolls, which are more a sweet treat that are not at all like what most would expect hearing the words egg roll. My oldest daughter is actually reasonably fluent in Mandarin and can muddle her way through some Cantonese and Korean and does a bit better reading Japanese than speaking it. She has a close friend from college whose parents emigrated from China and own a Chinese restaurant in our area. She taught my daughter several Cantonese style dishes -- and how to shop in the Asian markets for the quality ingredients to make them properly. It's amazing what the right sesame oil alone can do to change the flavors of a dish.

As far as PF Chang's, I've never eaten there but I always thought it was Chinese the same way Olive Garden is Italian. If I understood that without even eating there what makes Andrew Zimmern such a news source? What's he going to tell us next, the restaurants of World Showcase aren't authentic recreations of the cuisines of those countries either? Who'd a thunk it?

 

[Princessclab]

I wonder how familiar Andrew Zimmern actually is with the midwest? There are actually places in our area where you can be served up more truly authentic Chinese cuisine -- including egg rolls, which are more a sweet treat that are not at all like what most would expect hearing the words egg roll. My oldest daughter is actually reasonably fluent in Mandarin and can muddle her way through some Cantonese and Korean and does a bit better reading Japanese than speaking it. She has a close friend from college whose parents emigrated from China and own a Chinese restaurant in our area. She taught my daughter several Cantonese style dishes -- and how to shop in the Asian markets for the quality ingredients to make them properly. It's amazing what the right sesame oil alone can do to change the flavors of a dish.

As far as PF Chang's, I've never eaten there but I always thought it was Chinese the same way Olive Garden is Italian. If I understood that without even eating there what makes Andrew Zimmern such a news source? What's he going to tell us next, the restaurants of World Showcase aren't authentic recreations of the cuisines of those countries either? Who'd a thunk it?

AZ lives in the Twin Cities, MN so he knows the Midwest.

IMO, he was giving his opinion based on his global experiences as a well known chef, which he is entitled to do. He is an expert in his field. So what if he doesn't like other Chinese cooking? That does not make him a bad or self rightous person. People need to form their own opinions and take everyone else's opinions with a grain of salt.
Too much oversenitivity on other people's opinions. The concept of being PC has been abused, not everyone is going to agree with everyone else all of the time.
Speculation and over exaggeration on what was intended perpetuates what is being protested.
JMHO.

 

[cabanafrau]

AZ lives in the Twin Cities, MN so he knows the Midwest.

IMO, he was giving his opinion based on his global experiences as a well known chef, which he is entitled to do. He is an expert in his field. So what if he doesn't like other Chinese cooking? That does not make him a bad or self rightous person. People need to form their own opinions and take everyone else's opinions with a grain of salt.
Too much oversenitivity on other people's opinions. The concept of being PC has been abused, not everyone is going to agree with everyone else all of the time.
Speculation and over exaggeration on what was intended perpetuates what is being protested.
JMHO.

Yeah, my complaint is about whether it's PC. It's usually such a hot button issue with me. Not.
I also struggle mightily with forming my own opinions. Golly gee, I'll have to roll up my sleeves and get to work on that.

IMO his statements are a gross oversimplification, an over homogenized view if you will. Further complicated by the fact that he has a financial stake in how his "opinion" may coincidentally(conveniently) affect people's choices in choosing a restaurant. Smells mighty self serving to me.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

First off, China has so many different types of food that there really isn't a definitive Chinese food even in China itself. You'll get something very different outside a tier 1 city in China than you will in them. You'll get something very different in the North than the South and different still in the west. And different still in the far west than in the middle west. if you go outside tier 1,2, or 3 cities, you'll get something very different than in them. China is a big place. There are as many if not more regional differences there than there are here.

Secondly, of course it's Americanized. There are different things available here. It makes sense that those things were adapted. Unless Mr. Zimmerman plans to serve pig ears, chicken feet, tripe, Frogs, and internal organs of all varieties, well you're not going to get all of the experiences available in China in his place either. Just because something has broccoli in it doesn't mean it's not still the same style of dish. We have broccoli here, many a Chinese American cook here in the states has adopted it. So what?

Thirdly, one can go beyond the standard heavily Americanized dishes at plenty of places in the midwest. At many, you might have to spend some time convincing them that is what you really want, however.

Fourthly, Mr. Zimmern's comments were more than a bit self serving and patronizing.

 

[Princessclab]

Cabanafrau & cannot_wait_4disney you forgot the IMO and we all except them for what they are.

 

[cabanafrau]

Cabanafrau & cannot_wait_4disney you forgot the IMO and we all except them for what they are.

Actually, the fact you seem unable to accept opposing opinions without trying to minimize, marginalize and dismiss them as something they are not seems to elude you.

 

[soccerdad72]

Ironic

White guy from Minnesota who just happens to be opening a Chinese restaurant calling out PF Chang's? Yeah, seems like the very definition to me.

 

[cabanafrau]

White guy from Minnesota who just happens to be opening a Chinese restaurant calling out PF Chang's? Yeah, seems like the very definition to me.

Google seems to suggest that he is in fact a native New Yorker currently residing in MN.

 

[soccerdad72]

Google seems to suggest that he is in fact a native New Yorker currently residing in MN.

That may be. I don't know, to be honest. Any time I've heard anything about Andrew, it always seems to mention Minnesota as his home.

ETA - You got me thinking, so I went to his website. Looks like he grew up in the NYC area (Long Island) and moved to Minnesota for rehab (didn't specify what addiction he had).