Andrea Yates-Not guilty due to insanity

Maybe they'll bring back public stoning, sounds like plenty are ready to participate.

Best case would have been if TX had the option of a Guilty but Insane verdict that would have allowed a lifetime commitment. Instead millions in tax dollars were spent in an attempt to decide her fate. The jury has spoken, I don't think the verdict really matters much. It was just a matter of where she'd be living. The chances of her ever being released are pretty slim, if you do some research you'll find that it is a long and complicated process.

I can't find the quote now but a juror said that while yes they realized she knew what she was doing was illegal but she believed it was the right thing to do. A parent that would do anything for their child and her delusions brought her to the conclusion that killing them was in their best interest. There were absolutely no indications of any other motive other than she was "saving them". How horrible for the children but their mother wasn't the only person that failed them.
 
JennyMominRI said:
Nope,in fact she and her husband were at the doctor days before the murder begging for the medication that had worked before. He said no and told her to go home and "think good thoughts"

I do remember that about the last doctor. I think he shares some culpability in the tragedy. She was obviously very ill and he did nothing. :sad2: :sad2:
 
yeartolate said:
That is a closer representation. In fact, if you look back at the timeline --- starting with having postpartum violent hallucinations with the first child, suicide atttempts (holding a knife to her own throat, overdose, etc) and major postpartum depressions .......if I was a man and that was my wife - she would not be left alone with the kids - let alone left alone in a small dwelling, homeschooling....and 5 kids (7 and under I believe). What was everyone thinking????????????????

Good grief. We are not talking baby blues here. This woman was mentally ill for a long time. If I lived next to her and saw the same symptoms...I would have been calling CPS and APS until I knew those kids were in safe hands.

Leaving here alone with 5 very young children after being taken off of her antipsychotic meds - socially isolated????????? What the heck was everybody thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She will remain locked up for a long time. I have to wonder if the situation presents - whether she will kill herself. :confused3


I hope changes were made to the mental health system in that state to prevent this type of thing from happening again. I hope folks realize they have a personal responsibility to get involved if someone is a real danger to themeselves or others.



I think I can imagine what they were thinking. As I said before I went through severe post-pardum depression after the birth of one of my children. Not post-pardum psychosis which Yates had, but a very severe case of depression. I was never a danger to my kids (Thank You God), but I think left untreated, I may have become a danger to myself. There were days that I literally BEGGED my husband not to leave me alone, or begged him to come home early. But you see, if he did, he could have LOST HIS JOB, which in turn would have cost us to LOSE OUR MEDICAL INSURANCE, which in turn would have meant we could NOT AFFORD MY MEDICATION or MEDICAL HELP. Not to mention the medical care needed for our new baby. That is what he was thinking. Not to mention that whole needing money to pay for food and a roof over the head thing. I would beg, he would look a me with pain in his eyes, and say "I can't". I'm not saying Yate's husband is totally without blame. But when you are just trying to keep things going, and he really thought based on his religion that he was doing the right thing. He had his mother coming to help. When you are suffering from the illness, just getting the kids ready for school is overwelming, I'm sure he thought by them being home-schooled it was easier for her. (he wasn't right - but I can understand the thought behind it) A whole bunch of people (mainly her doctors) dropped the ball. But I don't think at any turn he didn't "think" he was doing the best he could for her.
 
The sad thing is that in a VERY SHORT amount of time, some "doctor" can declare her fit to re-enter society.

This woman was EVIL - she knew EXACTLY was she was doing -- going so far as to cover up the bodies of her children and then calmly call 911.

They should sterilize her now.
 

NeverEnufWDW said:
The sad thing is that in a VERY SHORT amount of time, some "doctor" can declare her fit to re-enter society.

This woman was EVIL - she knew EXACTLY was she was doing -- going so far as to cover up the bodies of her children and then calmly call 911.

They should sterilize her now.

Considering that John Hinkley is just beginning to get supervised, short, home visits, I don't think that she will be out and about anytime soon.
 
Obviously the only way some people are going to 'get' that she is sick is if they, or someone they love, experience it themselves. What a sad and stupid way to live. Hang her, stone her, drown her in your bathtub. While you are at it, be sure to round up the mentally ******** and the children who are "EVIL" as well. Might as well hang them, too. How pathetic. I am done with this thread. Good night.
 
I wonder how many people know what psychotic depression really is and how it manifests itself in patients. I worked in the mental health field for years while in the Air Force and let me tell you that when patients become psychotic they are incapable of ALL rational thought and behavior.

Andrea Yates received the correct verdict and will probably never get out of the mental hospital.
 
Crazy or not, the women is evil. She should be punished harshly. Sitting in a metal hospital is not enough punishment in my opinion.
 
I wonder how many people know what psychotic depression really is and how it manifests itself in patients. I worked in the mental health field for years while in the Air Force and let me tell you that when patients become psychotic they are incapable of ALL rational thought and behavior.

sorry, but I simply don't buy the argument of
"if you don't agree with me you must not understand all the facts."

For instance let me ask you - if you feel Yates was incapable of ALL (cap use yours) rational thought and behavior, how do you explain her ability to plan not only when she would perform the murders, but also the order of how she should bring the children into the bathroom so that those capable of running and getting help would never have the chance? That sounds awfully rational to me.... so would this now negate your opinion that she must not have been psychotic?

Fact is - there is a very high % of the criminal population that is mentally ill by one definition or the other. The question becomes at what point does the mental illness excuse the criminal behavior.

I for one just do not see it in the case. The lady murdered 5 children. I really do not care whether or not her "everyday" anguish is enough to punish her. I simply want her locked up in a place where no other children .... present or future ... are at risk.

I agree that it is not very likely that she will ever be released from the State Mental hospital. I can't imagine any judge willing to take the risk.

The place she is headed really isn't all that different from the Prison Hospital she was incarcerated in after the last trial. The state of Texas did just spend an awful lot of money to rearrange her confinement and they are now going to spend an awful lot of money on her "health care" such as it is because believe me, publically funded health care for the mentally ill is terrible.

Like I said, I can live with the verdict.
 
DVC Sadie said:
I wonder how many people know what psychotic depression really is and how it manifests itself in patients. I worked in the mental health field for years while in the Air Force and let me tell you that when patients become psychotic they are incapable of ALL rational thought and behavior.

Andrea Yates received the correct verdict and will probably never get out of the mental hospital.

My heart breaks for her children, but I do think she received the correct verdict, NGBYOI. She's suffering psychosis, and most of us have no true understanding or mental illness, let alone psychosis.

I have a close relative, who spent over 10 years in and out of mental institutions suffering from severe mental psychosis. He was never a danger to others, but to himself. The mind is a powerful thing, and it took a long time to get him on the correct medications to control his symptoms, one of which was voices in his head telling him to hurt himself, etc.

I wonder how many people on this board have ever walked into a psychiatric hospital, and had the doors lock behind them. Then to see all of the suffering people there, it is truly sad. As a society, we want to turn on head and act like mentall illness doesn't exist. I think it is because any one of us could develope a mental illness (chemical imbalance) at any time in our life.

Yates is going to a maximum securty psychiatric hospital, it will not be a fun place to hang out. I also think that she will spend the reminder, or most of the rest of her life, in a psych hospital. It won't be easy for her to get out of the hospital.

I do think what she did was horrible, she killed 5 of her children, and I can't understand this. Again, my heart breaks for her children.
 
Truly this is a heartbreaking situation for everyone involved and I don't think there is a "right" answer for it.

For Andrea, treatment for her mental illness is the best solution. She will remain in treatment a very long time.

For Rusty, he has stated publicly that he agrees with the verdit and wants help for Andrea. He still has visitation with her despite having remarried.

For the children, prayers from the thousands of people who never knew them but still care. They cannot be brought back no matter what the verdict is.

For the jury members, prayers that they move on past reviewing this over and over in their heads.
 
She continually refused to take them (throwing them away, flushing them down the toilet, etc.) as she wanted to conceive/breastfeed. Surely if she had followed doctors orders then this whole tragedy wouldn't have occured.

The problem is, many depressed/mentally ill people do not feel as though they need medication OR will take it until they feel better and then think they do not need it. Its pretty hard to get a grown adult to take medication (or not to stop taking it) they don't think they need.

That said, while I'm certain was/is insane, cases of insanity are judged on whether the person commiting the act knew the difference between right and wrong, and its hard for me to believe, insane as she was, that she did not KNOW it was wrong to kill another human being. Also, I think its a shame that the phrase is "Not guilty due to insanity", as it is clear that she is guilty, as she herself is aware and has admitted, its just that the reason for her guilt is insanity.
 
Toby'sFriend said:
sorry, but I simply don't buy the argument of
"if you don't agree with me you must not understand all the facts."

For instance let me ask you - if you feel Yates was incapable of ALL (cap use yours) rational thought and behavior, how do you explain her ability to plan not only when she would perform the murders, but also the order of how she should bring the children into the bathroom so that those capable of running and getting help would never have the chance? That sounds awfully rational to me.... so would this now negate your opinion that she must not have been psychotic?

Fact is - there is a very high % of the criminal population that is mentally ill by one definition or the other. The question becomes at what point does the mental illness excuse the criminal behavior.

I for one just do not see it in the case. The lady murdered 5 children. I really do not care whether or not her "everyday" anguish is enough to punish her. I simply want her locked up in a place where no other children .... present or future ... are at risk.

I agree that it is not very likely that she will ever be released from the State Mental hospital. I can't imagine any judge willing to take the risk.

The place she is headed really isn't all that different from the Prison Hospital she was incarcerated in after the last trial. The state of Texas did just spend an awful lot of money to rearrange her confinement and they are now going to spend an awful lot of money on her "health care" such as it is because believe me, publically funded health care for the mentally ill is terrible.

Like I said, I can live with the verdict.

I never said that I understood all the facts of this case because I don't, I wasn't there and have not seen all of the documents.

She appears to be a textbook case of psychotic depression with delusional tendencies. I have seen a lot of psychotic behavior (more than I wanted) in patients that have carrried out bizarre acts while not having the ability to reason out their behavior but instead just act on those bizarre thoughts.

State run mental hospitals are worse IMO than prison for most people. She will not be getting off lightly by spending her life in one.

BTW, in no way was I saying that you didn't understand the facts of this case. What I am saying is not everyone knows what psychotic behavior looks like (thank goodness).
 
JimFitz said:
Crazy or not, the women is evil. She should be punished harshly. Sitting in a metal hospital is not enough punishment in my opinion.

What is that saying.. Oh yes...

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

I certainly am in no position to cast stones. I'll leave the judging to a greater power.
 
Feralpeg said:
What is that saying.. Oh yes...

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

I certainly am in no position to cast stones. I'll leave the judging to a greater power.

Yes...I have no problem casting the first stone for this woman..... I would actually collect the stones for other people as well.

I am not about killing people for their crimes, I just feel this woman is evil and is getting off way to easy...........
 
DisneyStar006 said:
The problem is, many depressed/mentally ill people do not feel as though they need medication OR will take it until they feel better and then think they do not need it. Its pretty hard to get a grown adult to take medication (or not to stop taking it) they don't think they need.
Nonetheless, she was at a point in the beginning when she was not as psychotic as she was at the end, and the reason she wasn't taking them was so she could breastfeed and conceive.

Regardless if whether she thought she needed them, I still think that she should be held responsible for that decision.
 
Just in case this hasn't been posted; this gives an idea of what Yates has been dealing with and how the situation came to the death of five children. Sorry, I have no link as I found this on another message board. I personally think the right thing is happening. She doesn't belong in prison; the woman is seriously ill.

Profile of Andrea Yates
From Charles Montaldo,
Your Guide to Crime / Punishment.

Education and Achievements: Andrea (Kennedy) Yates was born on July 2, 1964 in Houston, Tex. She graduated from Milby High School in Houston in 1982. She was the class valedictorian, captain of the swim team and an officer in the National Honor Society. She completed a two-year pre-nursing program at the University of Houston and then graduated in 1986 from the University of Texas School of Nursing in Houston. She worked as a registered nurse at the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center from 1986 until 1994.

Andrea Meets Rusty Yates: Andrea and Rusty Yates, both 25, met at their apartment complex in Houston. Andrea, who was usually reserved, initiated the conversation. Andrea had never dated anyone until she turned 23 and prior to meeting Rusty she was healing from a broken relationship. They eventually moved in together and spent much of their time involved in religious study and prayer. They were married on April 17, 1993. They shared with their guests that they planned on having as many children as nature provided.
Andrea Called Herself "Fertile Myrtle": In their eight years of marriage, the Yates had five children; four boys and one girl. Andrea stopped jogging and swimming when she became pregnant with her second child. Friends say that she became reclusive. The decision to home-school the children seemed to feed her isolation.

The Yates Children:
Feb. 26, 1994 – Noah Yates, Dec. 12, 1995 - John Yates, Sept. 13, 1997 - Paul Yates, Feb. 15, 1999 - Luke Yates, and on Nov. 30, 2000 - Mary Yates was the last child to be born.

Their Living Conditions: Rusty accepted work in Florida in 1996 and the family moved into a 38-foot travel trailer in Seminole, FL While in Florida, Andrea got pregnant, but miscarried. In 1997 they returned to Houston and lived in their trailer because Rusty wanted to "live light." The next year. Rusty decided to purchase a 350-square-foot, renovated bus which became their permanent home. Luke was born bringing the number of children to four. Living conditions were cramped and Andrea's insanity began to surface.

Michael Woroniecki: Michael Woroniecki was a traveling minister from whom Rusty purchased their bus and whose religious views had influenced both Rusty and Andrea. Rusty only agreed with some of Woroniecki's ideas but Andrea embraced the extremist sermons. He preached, "the role of women is derived from the sin of Eve and that bad mothers who are going to hell create bad children who will go to hell." Andrea was so totally captivated by Woroniecki that Rusty and Andrea's family grew concerned.

Andrea’s First Suicide Attempt : On June 16 1999, Andrea called Rusty and begged him to come home. He found her shaking involuntarily and chewing on her fingers. The next day, she was hospitalized after she tried to commit suicide by taking an overdose of pills. She was transferred to the Methodist Hospital psychiatric unit and diagnosed with a major depressive disorder. The medical staff described Andrea as evasive in discussing her problems. However, on June 24 she was prescribed an antidepressant and released.
Spiraling Downward: Once home, Andrea did not take the medication and as a result she began to self mutilate and refused to feed her children because she felt they were eating too much. She thought there were video cameras in the ceilings and said that the characters on television were talking to her and the children. She told Rusty about the hallucinations, yet neither of them informed Andrea's psychiatrist, Dr. Starbranch. On July 20, Andrea put a knife to her neck and begged her husband to let her die.
Warned About the Risks of Having More Babies : Andrea was again hospitalized and stayed in a catatonic state for 10 days. After being treated with an injection of different drugs that included Haldol, an anti-psychotic drug, her condition immediately improved. Rusty was optimistic about the drug therapy because Andrea appeared more like the person he first met. Dr. Starbranch warned the Yates that having another baby might bring on more episodes of psychotic behavior. Andrea was placed on out-patient care and prescribed Haldol.

New Hopes for the Future : Andrea's family urged Rusty to buy a home instead of returning Andrea to the cramped space of the bus. He purchased a nice home in a peaceful neighborhood. Once in her new home, Andrea's condition improved to the point that she returned to past activities like swimming, cooking and some socializing. She was also interacting well with her children. She expressed to Rusty that she had strong hopes for the future but still viewed her life on the bus as her failure.

The Tragic End: In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty's urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol. On November 30, 2000, Mary was born. Andrea was coping but on March 12, her father died and immediately her mental state digressed. She stopped talking, refused liquids, mutilated herself, and would not feed Mary. She also frantically read the Bible.

By the end of March Andrea returned to a different hospital. Her psychiatrist, Dr. Mohammed Saeed, treated her briefly with Haldol but discontinued it, saying that she did not did not seem psychotic. Andrea was released only to return again in May. She was released in 10 days and in her last follow-up visit with Saeed, she was told to think positive thoughts and to see a psychologist.

Two days later, Rusty left for work and before his mother arrived to help, Andrea began to put into action the thoughts that had consumed her for two years.

Andrea filled the tub with water and beginning with Paul, she systematically drowned the three youngest boys, then placed them on her bed and covered them. Mary was left floating in the tub. The last child alive was the first born, seven-year-old Noah. He asked his mother what was wrong with Mary, then turned and ran away. Andrea caught up with him and as he screamed, she dragged him and forced him into the tub next to Mary's floating body. He fought desperately, coming up for air twice, but Andrea held him down until he was dead. Leaving Noah in the tub, she brought Mary to the bed and laid her in the arms of her brothers.

During Andrea's confession she explained her actions by saying that she wasn't a good mother and that the children were "not developing correctly" and she needed to be punished.

Her controversial trial lasted three weeks. The jury found Andrea guilty of capital murder, but rather then recommending the death penalty, they voted for life in prison. At the age of 77, in the year 2041, Andrea will be eligible for parole.
 
JimFitz said:
Crazy or not, the women is evil. She should be punished harshly. Sitting in a metal hospital is not enough punishment in my opinion.


There is no evidence that she is evil. She is very seriously mentally ill. Would you punish someone with Alzheimers?
 
DawnCt1 said:
I agree with the verdict. Just because she may be lucid and "sane" while in court, doesn't mean that she was lucid and sane while the crime was being committed. Clearly she responds well to medication and has to live with the gravity of the deed she committed. That will always be her own personal, living hell. I do feel sorry for her.

I totally and utterly agree with you, Dawn - you've hit the nail on the head. Excellent post.



Rich::
 
DawnCt1 said:
There is no evidence that she is evil.

Perhaps you don't consider the pre-meditated murders of five children to be evil, but I certainly do.

She is very seriously mentally ill. Would you punish someone with Alzheimers?

I've not known of Alzheimer's patients that are capable of planning the murders of five other people, as Andrea Yates did.

This woman didn't just snap and do this, she planned it meticulously.
 


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