An owner dropped their price....by a lot!

[tiff211]

Someone called me over the weekend about renting their townhome, I told them that the price was a little high but I told them I would get back to them after looking at the property again, if we were interested. Since then, I have 8 missed calls from them, I didn't recognize the # so I didn't answer. Finally today I answered and he asked if I was still interested. I said it was out of our budget so he dropped the price down almost $400! He said he really wanted a family to stay there and after talking to me, he felt that we would take care of the place. I told him I would look at it again and if we were interested would call him back. The place IS absolutely gorgeous but closer to US.

Is that normal, to drop a price like that? Especially during such a busy week (Easter break)

 

[UKDEB]

There are so many homes out there that they can't possibly all be full the entire time, not even during busy weeks. Maybe this owner is just keen to get a booking to cover his expenses. There aren't too many rental communities near Universal. Where is it?

 

[tiff211]

It's in Vista Cay. He said it was by the Orlando covention center and it's brand new.

 

[5mins2disney]

Vista Cay is Pulte's brand new development over by the convention center. It's modeled after Windsor Hills. The Pulte sales reps are "Selling" units to people there, telling them that it won't "rent out cheaply like Windsor Hills does" so their investment will be a great one! ROFL (This is hilarious if you're an owner at Windsor Hills...well...sorta....)...

Anyhow, it is brand new, similar to WHR...same builder and all...and just opened, maybe they're a brand new homeowner or unit and looking just to get some bookings. I'm not surprised they would drop their prices considerably, in spite of what Pulte is telling buyers there, there is a lot of competition in the Orlando area for your $$! This is why resorts like WHR are still such a good deal, because competition from all of the other resorts keeps the prices from escalating (like they really should...it's such a nice place!). Put that same resort and homes somewhere else in the country and they would all be $300-600 per night, competition holds them down to $100-200 per night.

The poor people who "bought the dream" in Vista Cay though and believed what the new homes sales people told them though are going to be in for a rude awakening when they can't rent their places for $250-300 a night like they were promised...

Ahh...reality...such a bummer sometimes...

 

[Brian Noble]

Often, owners at a new resort will under-price to build a reputation and an established clientele base for the first year or two. I know several owners at WH (one of home I rented from) did exactly that. Within a year, their weekly rates went up about 20%, though "return" renters got a small break from that. Still a fair price, just not the screaming good deal they were.

George is right, though. Orlando is positively packed with private homes available for rent, so the prices are really quite ridiculously low for what you are getting. Suppose I took a 4Bd home in Windsor Hills that rents during Christmas (peak week) for about $1600---that same home transplanted to the Outer Banks oceanside would rent for $3000 minimum, and that would be in shoulder season, not peak summer.

If I were an owner in Orlando (hint hint) I'd be investing in a common marketing strategy and tie-ins with Expedia etc. www.windsorhillsrent.com is nice, but people won't find it unless they already know it is there. The only way to increase the price on those homes to something close to "fair" would be to establish a much larger market for them. You'd need a large # of owners to cooperate though---this is possible in an HOA if the owners vote to do so, but it would be a tough sell even there.

 

[Mainebound]

Someone called me over the weekend about renting their townhome, I told them that the price was a little high but I told them I would get back to them after looking at the property again, if we were interested. Since then, I have 8 missed calls from them, I didn't recognize the # so I didn't answer. Finally today I answered and he asked if I was still interested. I said it was out of our budget so he dropped the price down almost $400! He said he really wanted a family to stay there and after talking to me, he felt that we would take care of the place. I told him I would look at it again and if we were interested would call him back. The place IS absolutely gorgeous but closer to US.

Is that normal, to drop a price like that? Especially during such a busy week (Easter break)

Look who's become that master "negotiator", LOL!

FWIW, I have never rented a home for more than 50% of its published asking price, in Orlando or anywhere else, at any time of year.

Can I get every home at this rate? No. but I keep looking until I find one.

So, in my experience, yes, it's common!

Now you have a new decision to make!

 

[Maria395712]

tiff211
is the owner on vrbo ?this sounds good for me in june as we are only going to stay 4 nights and only go to universal so it would be much closer to drive from there than windsor hills. how much did you get it per night if you don't mind me asking thanks if on vrbo what's the #
maria

 

[5mins2disney]

The only way to increase the price on those homes to something close to "fair" would be to establish a much larger market for them. You'd need a large # of owners to cooperate though---this is possible in an HOA if the owners vote to do so, but it would be a tough sell even there.

Verrrry tough...LOL...I've been "pitching" the concept of marketing Windsor Hills to the other owners for months now as a collective group, and all they seem to see is owners "battling" one another over pricing. If we could all pull together and market the place a lot more broadly and wider...demand would go up..and then so would prices...simple econonomics. Some have gone so far as to propose "fixed" pricing (which will never happen). My example to them...imagine the demand one Superbowl ad would generate! (Not that we could ever afford it! LOL)

 

[Brian Noble]

The advantage you have, though, is that you really only need enough of your HOA to vote to spend some association funds in this way. You *don't* need owners at other resorts to band with you (though it would help to have the economy of scale). WH's location and amenities give it a leg up. Look at what's happened on DIS. Based on the amount of traffic you see with questions about WH, it appears to have gone from no-one's-heard-of-it to "the place to stay" in just a couple of years.

My uncle has been looking into buying there; he's got a place in Glenbrook that he is actually able to get good rental receipts on, but is tired of hassling with the pool. He's thinking a condo would be a better fit for him, personally, and WH was the once place he and (more importantly) my aunt looked at and remembered really liking. If he ever does, I'll put him in touch with you. He'd easily be willing to canvass the HOA to invest in an effort like this.

It just seems obvious to me that spending on the right sort of marketing the resort might well produce an even better return on investment than the movie theater did! I wouldn't think you'd be able to fix prices, as you're right---it would only take a few undercutting. You can't change supply a la OPEC. The only thing left is changing *demand*.

From my perspective as a renter, WH is one of the absolute best bargains in all of Orlando. It doesn't capture nearly the premium I think it could given its location so close to the reason most everyone is in Central Florida in the first place. As a comparison point, an *owner* at Bonnet Creek pays about $1050 for a peak season 2BR week, plus cost of capital. It would rent for anywhere from $1200-$1400, depending on how hard it's marketed. Yet I can rent a 3BR townhouse in WH reliably for $1100 or less that same week. Granted, BC has an even better location, as it is landlocked by Disney and I-4, but the townhouse's superior amenities and space should compete with that.

I think it doesn't help that vacation home rental in the US is really quite rare compared to Europe. Most people here just don't understand how great that mode of vacationing can be.

 

[5mins2disney]

Brian I agree with you 100% dead on! You've summed up exactly the precise argument I've been making to the other owners on the WHR owner forums! Simple economics, you can't control or fix the price, you have to hit it from the demand side...how do you do this? Marketing of course! Econ 101 and Marketing 101 stuff...Business School basics! I "pitch" these things to other owners and many are hung up on the "price" war still...but there's nothing you can do about price. Rent control in NYC proved that years ago...price fixing simply doesn't work (not to mention it's illegal).

Now..the bad thing...the owners do not yet control the HOA at Windsor Hills..Pulte Homes does. There are a number of seats on the boards (there are 4 boards, 1 master, and 1 for the condos, townhomes, and homes), and year by year 1 owner will gain control of a board seat and Pulte will lose one...starting next year. So, it will be a few years before we will have the majority control to do such a thing. The resort is actually VERY well funded and budgeted with ample funds for repairs, replacements, upgrades, etc over the coming years (it's all planned already), and there's probably even wiggle room in there for marketing efforts. What people don't realize..no one outside of the area knows much about the place, as there's very little marketing being done, it's all word of mouth, places like the DIS, etc, but no coordinated effort exists.

My response to this is to go out and do everything I can personally to "get the word" out about the resort! Since I don't have $$s to spend on marketing, I do what I can in other ways, like the DIS! You're right though, it's a great place at these prices! When we first visited we were blown away, and said who wouldn't want to stay here at such an incredible resort at these rates!?

You're right too, the VRBO market here is relatively untapped still compared to EU, but they think it's going to explode in the next 5-10 years. (Recent article in the Orlando Sentinel).

Longer term, the picture is even better...there was an Orlando Sentinel article recently that predicted by the year 2050 (from the Florida planning commission) central Florida will be one vast metro area stretching from Tampa all the way to KSC...one vast suburban, populated sprawl. Good if you own property there now, good for long term prospects for appreciation and the like! (Bad if you live there and don't like traffic and congestion..and seeing things like the citrus groves all disappear).

Anyhow, for rentors, this is all still great news, as long as it remains relatively "undiscovered" people are going to be able to stay in a gorgeous resort at just rock bottom rates for what you get, as you already know! Me, I want to get the word out! hehe...you..should probably keep it quiet! LOL

 

[WDW1st-timers]

Often, owners at a new resort will under-price to build a reputation and an established clientele base for the first year or two. I know several owners at WH (one of home I rented from) did exactly that. Within a year, their weekly rates went up about 20%, though "return" renters got a small break from that. Still a fair price, just not the screaming good deal they were.

George is right, though. Orlando is positively packed with private homes available for rent, so the prices are really quite ridiculously low for what you are getting. Suppose I took a 4Bd home in Windsor Hills that rents during Christmas (peak week) for about $1600---that same home transplanted to the Outer Banks oceanside would rent for $3000 minimum, and that would be in shoulder season, not peak summer.

If I were an owner in Orlando (hint hint) I'd be investing in a common marketing strategy and tie-ins with Expedia etc. www.windsorhillsrent.com is nice, but people won't find it unless they already know it is there. The only way to increase the price on those homes to something close to "fair" would be to establish a much larger market for them. You'd need a large # of owners to cooperate though---this is possible in an HOA if the owners vote to do so, but it would be a tough sell even there.

I checked out the link that you posted...WOW some amazing homes. Now I know where to look if I ever want to stay off of the Disney property. Thanks again!

 

[Mainebound]

FWIW, I do think word is getting out in general about this style of Orlando vacation. Brian has already mentioned changes on the DIS. The review board adjacent to this one did not exit a couple of years ago, and most of the traffic on THIS board involved discussions of Vistana Villages! Also, just look at the Unofficial Guide. In 3 years it went from NO mention of renting offsite (2005), to a 2 page box (2006), to several pages with villa map (2007).

Then again, about 2 or 3 years ago, you have Mouse savers removing the blurb/link to a MC, stating that they can no longer recommend renting a villa because quality varies too much (and a couple of other reasons). [Actually, I suppose that could be a sign of their growing popularity if the site owner felt the growth of this market segment harmed her other vested business interests).]

It is too bad that owners see each other as competition and lower prices as far as they do. An individual owner might think, "well, one week at half price is better than nothing." But when this becomes a general practice, everyone loses out! It's the classic problem of short term self-interested ratonality.

I certainly would be willing to pay more than I have so far for this wonderful vacation experience, and I fear soon I may have to!

 

[spiceycat]

Then again, about 2 or 3 years ago, you have Mouse savers removing the blurb/link to a MC, stating that they can no longer recommend renting a villa because quality varies too much (and a couple of other reasons). [Actually, I suppose that could be a sign of their growing popularity if the site owner felt the growth of this market segment harmed her other vested business interests).]

Mary would not recommend something because her readers complainted LOUDLY.

besides there have been some complaints here.

some owners lie.

until you can change that - forget about high popularity.

one of the worst cases - a handicapped person needs a place to stay - the owner say their place was handicapped accessible. they got there - guess what STEPS.

you have to get your owners to quit lying to people to get something rented.

it gives everyone a bad reputation.

 

[Mainebound]

Mary would not recommend something because her readers complainted LOUDLY.

besides there have been some complaints here.

some owners lie.

until you can change that - forget about high popularity.

one of the worst cases - a handicapped person needs a place to stay - the owner say their place was handicapped accessible. they got there - guess what STEPS.

you have to get your owners to quit lying to people to get something rented.

it gives everyone a bad reputation.

Oh, I didn't realize there were reader complaints. Thanks for filling in the pieces.

Of course, you are right, there are going to be lousy owners. Then again, ever looked at tripadvisor.com or even our own DIS board for hotel reviews? Complaints about noise, mold, bad service, cold pools, hair in bedsheets, abound regarding WDW and other hotels. I guess the difference is that if you are at a Marriott or Sheraton or WDW hotel you can complain to the manager and get another room. If you are dealing directly with an unscrupulous owner, you have no immediate recourse. It's a risk I am willing to take, provided I minimize it with very thorough research before hand. But I do understand why others would be reluctant.

 

[spiceycat]

Of course, you are right, there are going to be lousy owners. Then again, ever looked at tripadvisor.com or even our own DIS board for hotel reviews? Complaints about noise, mold, bad service, cold pools, hair in bedsheets, abound regarding WDW and other hotels. I guess the difference is that if you are at a Marriott or Sheraton or WDW hotel you can complain to the manager and get another room. If you are dealing directly with an unscrupulous owner, you have no immediate recourse. It's a risk I am willing to take, provided I minimize it with very thorough research before hand. But I do understand why others would be reluctant.

those are things that can be fixed.

but being told that the house was handicapped accessible then to arrive and find it wasn't.

sorry this is a MAJORITY problem. that can not be fixed, until you and other owners convience the others not to lie.

I think these people ended up going home. so a vacation that someone needed badly was ruined by an owner lying.

can you understand why Mary quit recommending houses?

this is the one I remember - but there have been other complaints. I feel so sorry for that family.

 

[5mins2disney]

The Dibb never allowed posts or information on offsite housing. Now they have a section for paid advertising where homeowners can post an "ad" for their homes for a fee! (hint hint! hehe)

There's a competitive Disney board that has an offsite housing reviews board...but when you look at it it only has 5 or 6 posts in it...because anything posted there relating to anything offsite is pretty much instantly deleted by the moderators. (Makes no sense to me at all...why have a forum / board for this then?). They do leave all of the posts suggesting people stay onsite though! LOL Or from their sponsor (Allstar Vacation Homes)... very strange.


There are good places and bad places, and good owners and bad ones, and good hotels and bad ones, it just varies, just like anything in life does! Having the DIS reviews here of course is a great way to find the good vs the bad ones though, especially the reviews!

 

[sconnell]

The Dibb never allowed posts or information on offsite housing. Now they have a section for paid advertising where homeowners can post an "ad" for their homes for a fee! (hint hint! hehe)

There's a competitive Disney board that has an offsite housing reviews board...but when you look at it it only has 5 or 6 posts in it...because anything posted there relating to anything offsite is pretty much instantly deleted by the moderators. (Makes no sense to me at all...why have a forum / board for this then?). They do leave all of the posts suggesting people stay onsite though! LOL Or from their sponsor (Allstar Vacation Homes)... very strange.


There are good places and bad places, and good owners and bad ones, and good hotels and bad ones, it just varies, just like anything in life does! Having the DIS reviews here of course is a great way to find the good vs the bad ones though, especially the reviews!

Ya know, I haven't given much thought to staying offsite, because right now we go back to our room mid-day for a nap. We've been thinking about DVC, but now I'm wondering if we would want to stay off-site in 10 years. Too many choices. I wish I just jumped into things sometimes! lol.
BTW Beautiful homes 5mins2Disney. I just wonder why you didn't do any Disney theming... Not a criticism, just wondering.

 

[Mainebound]

those are things that can be fixed.

but being told that the house was handicapped accessible then to arrive and find it wasn't.

sorry this is a MAJORITY problem. that can not be fixed, until you and other owners convience the others not to lie.

I did not suggest that accessibility was a minor problem. To clarify: The owner in such a case is guilty of not only serious ethical breaches (dishonesty, greed, and a complete lack of even minimal concern for others' welfare to which we all are entitled) but also legal ones (Florida laws regulating contracts, even federal law: ADA anyone?). I hope my position on that particular case is now clear.

 

[Brian Noble]

right now we go back to our room mid-day for a nap.

If you are "close" (about 15 minutes or less away from any them park parking lot), driving yourself offsite is usually as fast as busses onsite, and sometimes faster, measuring the time from the door of your lodging to the park's turnstiles. The single exception is getting to and from MK---offsite is nearly always slower, becuase offsite guests must use the TTC, but onsite guests do not.

You can get measurements for "close" from the Unofficial Guide.

 

[5mins2disney]

Ya know, I haven't given much thought to staying offsite, because right now we go back to our room mid-day for a nap. We've been thinking about DVC, but now I'm wondering if we would want to stay off-site in 10 years. Too many choices. I wish I just jumped into things sometimes! lol.
BTW Beautiful homes 5mins2Disney. I just wonder why you didn't do any Disney theming... Not a criticism, just wondering.

Oh thank you for the compliment! I didn't take it as criticism, it's a good question, and one we considered very carefully actually when we did our place, since it was empty when we bought it, so we started with a blank palette so to speak.

We felt that Disney theming would limit our guests to just families with kids. Bunkbeds, for instance, mean ONLY kids can stay in your homes (and we learned the cleaning people hate them!). We chose instead to keep the beds as twin beds and the theming as relatively neutral, because we can then accomodate adult groups as well as kid groups, and not everyone wants a Disney themed room. In fact, many will look for rooms that aren't.

We've found that we've actually had a lot of guests in the latter category. We did consider it, but ended up choosing not to go this route, so we could appeal to a broader audience basically. Instead we added things like toys, video games, baby amenities, so that we still offer a lot for kids, but we aren't "limited" to JUST families with little kids. We've had people come stay with us who want to play golf for instance, adult golf groups aren't probably going to a book a home where they'll be sleeping in 2 twin "Mickey" beds!

It's a choice, but one we considered carefully actually before we went this route, we may end up losing some business to people looking for the themed rooms, sure, but our "niche" was always to provide the highest end of everything, and it's been working out pretty well so far at least. It was kind of an experiment or "risk" if you will, you lay out all this $$ and pray that you will get bookings! Same with things like amenities, expensive TVs, theming, etc, if we were wrong of course we'd be bleeding $$ in a bad way, but so far we're booked nearly solid through fall, so we must have done something right! LOL

(Mods: hope I'm not treading on any boundaries of permitted statements about our place here, I certainly don't mean to, and will gladly edit this post if so, just trying to answer the question! )

- George