An open letter to Disney about mandatory room checks.

[saskdw]

I'm sorry, but the topic of mandatory room checks at Disney is not important to me. At all.

But yet you took the time to come in this thread and comment.

 

[Fldisneyfamily4321]

But yet you took the time to come in this thread and comment.

Hahahhaa right ? Because that’s what goes on ...

 

[trvlgirlmq]

I just can't fathom that people are really this upset over things done for your safety and the safety of others. The Orlando shooter's plans was to shoot at Disney Springs. This is a proven fact now. He didn't do it due to the presence of Police and Security. I think people need to start realizing that things are put into place for our protection. Will they be able to check every single room every single day, I doubt it. You have been warned that they might do it. When your at home you can't control someone knocking on your door while you sleep. You can't control your telephone ringing when you don't want it too. Lets start realizing that when we are visiting someone else's property we are a guest of there's and we expect certain things as a guest of there's and one of those things I expect is safety. If I don't like a places policy or don't feel safe then I don't stay there. I would rather be bothered for a second then get upset about what they deem as necessary for safety. Who am I to argue with them about there practices? If I don't like it then I won't stay there. If this policy saves one persons life from either being ill, sex trafficking, or kidnapping then its well worth it in my opinion.

If I want to spend my morning sleeping in or come back to my room for some afternoon delight then I sure as heck don't want someone incessantly knocking on the door or calling! I am on vacation where I should be spending my time as I see fit. Interrupting my sleep is not for my protection or anyone else's. It causes me to be a disgruntled guest who will complain and then make sure every online travel website has a not so kind review of my stay. I will then come back to work and home and let all of my friends, coworkers, etc know and as the resident travel expert in my group they pretty much take my word on where and how to travel. So maybe those Brazilians will fill up the rooms we don't but someday there will be another economic crash and they will rue the day they ran all of us off.

 

[GATORinaZ28]

These checks just don't bother me. (But I haven't been on a trip since they started them either)

 

[maxiesmom]

If I want to spend my morning sleeping in or come back to my room for some afternoon delight then I sure as heck don't want someone incessantly knocking on the door or calling! I am on vacation where I should be spending my time as I see fit. Interrupting my sleep is not for my protection or anyone else's. It causes me to be a disgruntled guest who will complain and then make sure every online travel website has a not so kind review of my stay. I will then come back to work and home and let all of my friends, coworkers, etc know and as the resident travel expert in my group they pretty much take my word on where and how to travel. So maybe those Brazilians will fill up the rooms we don't but someday there will be another economic crash and they will rue the day they ran all of us off.

Will you also be sure to let your friends know you were well aware of the checks prior to your stay? Because they are called out in the Terms and Conditions. So any complaint would have to start with how you knew about the room checks, decided to book anyway, and then were mad that they really did them.

 

[saskdw]

The following are written prepared remarks I read on March 15, 2018 to Mr. David Belrose, General Manager of the Disney Vacation Club’s (DVC) Old Key West Resort in Orlando, Florida where my wife and I are members. I prepared them so I could not only read them to him but also have documentation of what was said.

It is my intent to share this with the Disney community here on Disboards.com so a fuller understanding about what is at stake with this issue. It should take only 10 minutes to read. But this subject is important. Or it should be important to every person who stays at Disney.

I can summarize the issue in one short paragraph:


“How would you feel if a governing board of your municipality, where you live, sent out people who were not law enforcement officers and would, once per day but at all different times every single day and by different people, require access to your home without a warrant, to make sure “everything was ok”? Oh and you were not given any official notice about this from your municipality. That is what is going on right now at Walt Disney World and other Disney properties.”

The Courts have determined that people staying in a hotel room have the same constitutional rights as when you are at home. Namely, the 4th amendment to our Constitution, which protects citizens from unreasonable searches and requires a warrant from a judge to perform such a search.

===========

Here is my phone conversation with David Belrose, General Manager of Old Key West Resort where I read the following:

The following are my prepared remarks and suggestions which come from reading literally thousands of comments from a Disney forum called DisBoards.com from peoples experiences and views about a new Disney Security policy and my reaching a few conclusions about this new security policy which was implemented at Old key West resort on January 8, 2018. I asked to talk with you because it is hoped you would have big picture life experiences which would enable an open conversation on this subject and have the authority to help make changes. The last person I would have wanted to talk to are those who head your security departments because they have an vested interest in promoting the policy I’m about to discuss with you.

Additionally, I am not an attorney.

You should understand that the time and effort taken in these remarks are the result of 27 years of DVC member ownership where I have concluded that the INTENT of Disney Management is to do the right thing but in this particular case something went very wrong in the decision making process.

With your permission I will continue.

Please understand these suggestions are the result of 3 months of research, thought and consideration. It certainly is not a knee jerk reaction.

Here is the overview:

Agreeing to “minor inconveniences” in the name of safety from the infinitesimally small likelihood of something like a mass shooting is the beginning of the slippery slope to more and more “inconveniences” up to and including the actual loss of constitutional rights.

Let me throw out a completely out of box thought about the new Disney policy of requiring in room inspections every day.

The premise is that checking rooms daily would prevent a Las Vegas type of shooting event. In the mean while a whole lot of aggravation with guests is building over privacy and searches.

It appears that Disney has taken the stand that the fear of another idiot coming in with military style guns etc. justifies intrusion of privacy with daily room checks on all of your guests at all Disney Resorts.

What are the chances of this happening. Pretty darn low. So, how do we protect all involved?

I submit, the same way we do with lethal automobiles. Idiots drive them every day. They drive down freeways on the wrong side and a host of other dumb ways. But do we check your use of these vehicles and your way of using them? Well, yes. When you take your drivers license exam. Nothing much later except for renewing your license but typically just checking your eye sight. But we have hundreds of thousands killed or injured every year. Still, there is a universal understanding that you can’t 100% of the time avoid car mishaps just like you can’t avoid that one idiot who is determined to do harm. But, and very importantly, we still have our constitutional freedoms.

But in this situation, brought on by this new security policy, our freedoms and privacy are being challenged apparently everyday while at our favorite place in the world. Why? Apparently, because Disney is self insured and doesn’t want to expose themselves to liability. But think for a second what would change if Disney merely accepted liability. The same way we all do when we buy insurance for the inherent liability we expose ourselves when we use our own automobiles.

I suggest all could return to normal if one of two things occurred:

1. Disney accepts liability if a Las Vegas type shooting occurs.

Or

2. They build into the cost of staying at Disney an amount that would protect Disney for any possible occurrence and their liability.

It’s done everyday. It’s called Insurance! It’s simple and straightforward and it works. People’s fears of privacy and intrusion would go away.

One observation comes to mind. A non-trivial investment has been made by Disney Vacation Club members. Shouldn’t there be recognition that with this member investment a significant amount of trust be invested in those members? Doesn't Disney at least agree that they really are not the demographic who would put Disney at risk for a Las Vegas type of terrorist?

Here is one additional idea:

Disney could take a leadership role and
Link Disney to the Transportation Security Administration or TSA with their Pre-check program. It’s called Known Traveler number or KTN. Both my wife and I have one.

If a person is good enough to fly while by-passing normal security checks at an airport shouldn’t that person be trusted without daily room checks at Disney?

I hope these suggestions are taken seriously. Why? Because I have not only a right to expect privacy in a room that I use (as long as I’m using the room in a reasonable manner and I’m not disturbing other guests). But I also have 4th amendment rights against unreasonable search. Disney has to have a specific reason to need to inspect my room not just a general “security” check or a trash pickup. As a DVC member, Disney had only limited access realistically before now according to actual practice. Disney Vacation Club members, would for example have their rooms made up, beds made and trash taken out after the 4th day. It also was not mandatory.

A few words on Hotels and the Fourth Amendment:

In general, the Fourth Amendment “requires police officers to obtain a warrant from a judge before searching or seizing persons, houses, papers, and effects.” Disney does not use sworn police officers but rather limitedly trained lay people. Courts have held that this constitutional protection also applies to hotel rooms. Before being able to suppress the results of an illegal search, a defendant must meet his burden of showing a reasonable expectation of privacy in the hotel room. This is done by establishing a subjective expectation of privacy in the place searched and society’s willingness to accept the reasonableness of this expectation. Thus, a hotel room, as “a temporary abode,” receives the same Fourth Amendment protections as a home, because the occupant of a hotel room has an expectation of privacy no less than a tenant of a house, or the occupant of a room in a boarding house. It makes sense to apply the same legal test to hotels as to apartments or homes, rather than assigning a lesser degree of privacy.

In English, this means a judge could throw out the results of a room search based on an illegal search. The exact opposite of what Disney is trying to accomplish. A terrorist could possibly go free.

One last point:

The fact that hundreds if not thousands of cast members are implementing this new policy injects the very high degree of variability in its implementation. House keepers, in general, with their native language not being English and with their apparent lack of legal awareness, are being used as replacements for security cast members who are also not as aware of the legal implications of searches as sworn Law Enforcement officers. It is clear both don’t know how to implement this awkward policy. This adds to the problem. It’s like asking a housekeeper or lay person security personnel to be an astronaut as an extreme example.

In summary, these new policies are invading people’s constitutional rights of privacy as well as invasive search conditions. In simple terms we do not feel as safe with this new security policy. We are being asked to trust a significant increase in the sheer number of people we don’t know and higher number of occurrences invading our space, precisely during a time when we do not feel safe doing so. Ironically these feelings are being created by the exact same policy which is supposed to protect us. We also do not feel very trusting of Disney who are not transparent in their sharing of this policy with people when they visit Disney. While Disney personnel will confirm the policy if asked about it they won’t tell you about it upfront, like at check-in. It’s unfortunate Ken Potrock, Senior Vice-President of Disney and General Manager of the Disney Vacation Club characterized the current improvement of activities of housekeeping “as upgraded support at our resorts” without further explanation in the Spring 2018 Disney Files Magazine recently.

It is hoped that Disney will take this observation seriously and help to reverse the implementation of this less than well thought out policy. Even Las Vegas has implemented a less stringent policy. David Strow, the vice president of corporate communications for Boyd Gaming, owner of MGM, confirmed that staff will now conduct safety and welfare checks on any room that has a "do not disturb" placard on the door after two consecutive days. "All guests are advised of this policy upon check-in," Strow wrote in an email. "The policy applies to all Boyd Gaming properties nationwide, including our 10 hotels in the Las Vegas Valley." ** (link below)

We all want to feel safe. But when the medicine is worse than the fear of a problem, it’s time to look at rejecting a policy which does little but generating fear and distrust from the very people Disney serves. It certainly goes against another Disney policy, a welcome home warm fuzzy kind of feeling. That "Welcome Home" saying is at the core value of DVC. And that may become the biggest problem for Disney when people become aware that Disney appears to suddenly feel Disney cares less about their guests feelings than reacting to a problem which may not occur with any more likelyhood of winning the lottery. Remember, no amount of security management can protect someone who is hell bent on creating a disaster. Guests should not be inoculated by the theater of merely doing something so it can be argued later in court that they didn’t do anything. The price of our privacy is too high of a price for merely theater.

Thanks for listening

Rees Roberts
Sharon Roberts


** http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/3678...e-do-not-disturb-policies-mgm-refuses-comment

-----------------

I have since had phone calls from Thomas Gauthier, Member Satisfaction Manager for DVC and Heather Moyer, Manager of Experience and Communication Strategy. My stated goal was to speak to Mr. Ken Potrock, Senior Vice-President of Disney and General Manager of Disney Vacation Club. The Disney Vacation Club has over 200,000 members. Today (April 13, 2018) I received notice from Heather Moyer that Disney is comfortable with their "legal position" and that Ken Potrock would not agree to a conversation with me. It is my opinion that Disney is comfortable with their legal position on this issue simply because it has not been challenged.

Privacy is a human right. It’s a civil liberty. Unique to America. It’s like freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Privacy is right up there with these freedoms we all should respect. I am deeply offended that Disney would take an agreement we signed with Disney and attempt to take our Constitutional rights of privacy away from us while we stay at Walt Disney World.

What we signed when we became DVC members and what your policy does today is not what was described to us when my wife and I bought into DVC in 1991. 27 years of housekeeping coming in every 4 days, for example, is not close to mandatory required entry to each guest room. Any normal non-lawyer would conclude that. And that has been the normal expectation until January 8th 2018.

I just skimmed through this quickly.

While I appreciate the time and effort you put into this I think you're playing the wrong angle.

I'm sure Disney is comfortable with the legalites here.

The only thing that is going to matter to them is if their resort occupancy is effected substantially.

We've spent somewhere between $50,000-$100,000 on WDW property since 2008.

WDW is now completely off our radar for any further vacations because of this policy. I have no interest in spending that kind of money to be treat to these type of intrusions and disturbances while on vacation.

Disney is only going to care if a very large amount of people do the same thing.

Unfortunately with Star Wars land opening they probably don't care and they will find others to fill the rooms.

Universal will be our go to spot for the foreseeable future. They treat us great at Royal Pacific resort.

 

[Walt4ever]

If I were a bad person and wanted to cause mass damage, I wouldn't shoot people from my room.

Especially when Disney has so kindly hearded them in front of each park at the "security" checkpoint for you.

 

[saskdw]

Will you also be sure to let your friends know you were well aware of the checks prior to your stay? Because they are called out in the Terms and Conditions. So any complaint would have to start with how you knew about the room checks, decided to book anyway, and then were mad that they really did them.

This is exactly why we won't be going their anymore.

 

[maxiesmom]

This is exactly why we won't be going their anymore.

That makes more sense. I don't see the sense in being aware of a policy, and then being upset when it is enforced. If the policy bothered me that much I would stay at a non Disney resort, or go on vacations elsewhere. And probably e-mail Disney too and let them know what I thought about the policy.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I just can't fathom that people are really this upset over things done for your safety and the safety of others. The Orlando shooter's plans was to shoot at Disney Springs. This is a proven fact now. He didn't do it due to the presence of Police and Security. I think people need to start realizing that things are put into place for our protection. Will they be able to check every single room every single day, I doubt it. You have been warned that they might do it. When your at home you can't control someone knocking on your door while you sleep. You can't control your telephone ringing when you don't want it too. Lets start realizing that when we are visiting someone else's property we are a guest of there's and we expect certain things as a guest of there's and one of those things I expect is safety. If I don't like a places policy or don't feel safe then I don't stay there. I would rather be bothered for a second then get upset about what they deem as necessary for safety. Who am I to argue with them about there practices? If I don't like it then I won't stay there. If this policy saves one persons life from either being ill, sex trafficking, or kidnapping then its well worth it in my opinion.

I think it is a question of personality. Some people value privacy more than others, and some people value privacy in some situations and not in others. The question is how much of a right to privacy do people have, regardless of what a company or entity feels is appropriate. The EU has decided, for example, that Facebook and Google must protect the individual's privacy in certain instances. Will the US follow suit?

 

[trvlgirlmq]

Will you also be sure to let your friends know you were well aware of the checks prior to your stay? Because they are called out in the Terms and Conditions. So any complaint would have to start with how you knew about the room checks, decided to book anyway, and then were mad that they really did them.

We made our travel plans before this policy change and it's not actually your business why we have to keep our plans. And if we are interrupted in any way while in our room when we do not want to be interrupted then the hotel management will hear about it and so will everyone I know. But don't worry we have already changed our plans for 2020 when we were going visit WDW. We won't be back on property if this policy is not overturned and we won't be back to the parks for some time either.

 

[Lynzer4]

I've spent over 2 weeks at multiple Disney hotel over the last 2 months and I've not had any issue with these checks.

I was even there during the Princess 1/2 where I was in my room a lot. The key factor is when I did leave (pool for a few hours and to eat) I took my sign off my door and that is when they came and checked my room and took my trash. I never got invasive calls or knocks (I actually never had anyone knock). I was in my room a lot as I wasn't in the parks to save my legs. I got to my room around 8:30am after my runs and went back to sleep until around noon for 3 days... then went out. Never had someone knock on my door or bug me.

While I understand some people have had issues, I also bet if you ask them if they removed their occupied signs they would say NO... so housekeeping had to knock.

The fact is they aren't going to change this policy and 90% of people get daily housekeeping if in a hotel room (and as a DVC I actually like they come in an take the trash daily) so daily checks have been happening for a long time... they just actually put it into a policy.

 

[Walt4ever]

I don't see the sense in being aware of a policy, and then being upset when it is enforced.

With me personally, being "aware" of the policy in general was a far cry from experiencing how it was actually enforced. Putting eyes on the room once every 24 hours sounds reasonable enough, for a multitude of reasons. We did not have an issue with the policy, at face value. Where we had a problem was when we were interrupted, within 30 minutes of getting into the room on check in day (and we did NOT wave housekeeping) by a determined CM who insisted on having the door opened when neither occupant was presentable (and were happily pre-occupied with another activity at the time). SO yes, I have every reason for being upset over the way it was enforced, despite the fact that I knew, in general, that the new policy existed.

 

[Three60guy]

A question then arises. Is Disney performing daily room checks for their benefit or the guests? If it is for Disney’s benefit, is that entirely ethical? Should guests lose privacy so Disney can say in a court of law they tried to protect their guests? It is not an unreasonable question to ask.

Further, as a few have suggested, where is that line of decency? Would it be ok to put a camera in every room for the sake of safety? How far should Disney go to protect itself? I’m being serious about these questions. I suspect many would give up almost anything in the name of safety. But I am reminded of what good ole Benjamin Franklin once said:

“Those who sacrifice essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

I believe, in the context of this discussion, this phrase nails the issue squarely on the head.

A version of this is engraved on the Statue of Liberty.

 

[saskdw]

A question then arises. Is Disney performing daily room checks for their benefit or the guests? If it is for Disney’s benefit, is that entirely ethical? Should guests lose privacy so Disney can say in a court of law they tried to protect their guests? It is not an unreasonable question to ask.

Further, as a few have suggested, where is that line of decency? Would it be ok to put a camera in every room for the sake of safety? How far should Disney go to protect itself? I’m being serious about these questions. I suspect many would give up almost anything in the name of safety. But I am reminded of what good ole Benjamin Franklin once said:

“Those who sacrifice essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

I believe, in the context of this discussion, this phrase nails the issue squarely on the head.

A version of this is engraved on the Statue of Liberty.

This is 100% for Disney's benefit. There is zero safety value to these checks. They are trying to limit their liability in the event of an incident.

I don't know anyone in their right mind who would agree to having security camera's in their hotel room.

This policy is from their lawyers. I'm pretty confident there were no customer service people involved.

IMO, this policy will not change unless it starts to effect their bottom line.

 

[saskdw]

we won't be back to the parks for some time either.

This is really the key.

Staying offsite, but still spending money in their parks will have a minimal effect.

We will not spend a dime on their property.

 

[trvlgirlmq]

Listen, it's not about someone checking the room daily. It's about the fact that I don't want to be interrupted when I am in my room. If someone needs to check the room then I have no problem with them coming in while I am not there. The problem lies in they don't know when I will not be there. I don't want to spend my week on pins and needles about sleeping in or taking a nap. I hate to be startled awake and I can never get back to sleep once I am woken up. Maybe this does not bother you but it is something that deeply bothers me. I can't change my reservation and I can't cancel my trip so now I get to spend my week away from work with lots of stress over this. If you don't understand that it's not my problem.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Does the regular mousekeeping visit count as the room check?

Mixed reports on this for sure. Some have specifically stated that they still received these checks in addition to mousekeeping.

 

[Fldisneyfamily4321]

At this point I think my argument is lost so .. I give LOl I have life to get to lol

 

[disneynutz]

Having the policy may be enough to offset the possible liability. Should something bad happen, they can say that they do room checks to try to prevent it. That may mean that every room may not be checked every day. I'm sure that the checkers don't like doing room checks just as much as we don't want room checks.

Bill