An Epiphany

[Brian430]

Just got back from an impromptu long weekend at Port Orleans Riverside with my two young sons.

My wife and I hadn't stayed there in 10 years and we were reminded why we loved that visit so much. And in strolling the grounds, I was also finally able to put my finger on why Saratoga Springs is such a monumental disappointment to me.

As a SSR owner (and a BWV and VWL) I'm entitled to make at least one criticism here without everyone going bananas, so bear with me.

Here it is: Road and parking lot placement. Ill-conceived, often moronic, placement of the roads and parking lots at SSR.

Have you ever walked through Port Orleans Riverside? You should because despite its "moderate" classification I think it's one the best themed and landscape resorts on Disney property. It also has a lot in common with SSR: They both are located on the same river. They both feature a series of satellite buildings in which the rooms face outside. They are both sprawling properties.

Yet Port Orleans has a quaint, communal, feel in which you never feel disconnected from the main resort even though some rooms are probably a quarter mile away. Why? The main access roads to all the buildings, as well as all of the unsightly parking lots, ring the outside of the resort – leaving the "inside" grounds as one contiguous, magnificently themed, piece of property. Strolling the grounds is truly a transporting experience.

How could the famed Imagineers, working with such a similar piece of land, have overlooked this very simple but brilliant piece of design when planning SSR? How could they have designed their showcase DVC property with roads cutting throughout the complex and parking lots disconnecting all the buildings? The end result is that there are no "inside" grounds. They've been replaced by a sea of concrete, busses and cars. And walking to the resort from your room is anything but transporting, unless you count being transported to an apartment complex.

Consider for a moment how different, how much better, the SSR experience would be if the parking lots and roads we're simply placed on the outside of the property: The buildings would be closer together, and the inside would consist of nothing but trees, trails, and lawns, where your kids could run to the pool without the risk of being run over. What a heartbreaking missed opportunity.

There, it's off my chest. Sorry to bum anyone out, but ever since we've stayed at SSR I've been trying to put my finger on what's "off" about this resort compared to other Disney resorts and, by jove, I think that's it.

 

[mello]

and in spite of my love of SSR, I agree - especially about the prime piece of real estate overlooking the lake between the boat launch and Congress Park that's taken up by parking lot now. That should be a community park area. My single biggest pet peeve about my beloved resort is that you see a parking lot and a big black fence surrounding the tennis courts when you get off the boat. That just needs to be a lovely New England style town square type park right there. The parking lots around the outlying buildings don't bother me, but walking along the road and through parking lots in the common areas does.

 

[mamatojon]

I'll just agree with both of you here. Although I really love SSR, I have to agree with everything you both have said. I especially don't like the walk from the Carriage House to Congress Park.

That said, it still is my first choice resort so I guess it doesn't bother me *that* much.

 

[Holly]

I agree

 

[alldiz]

I 100% agree with you.....

While I really enjoyed SSR.....that did disturb me.

I stayed in congress park.....the walk to the main pool was on
a MAIN road.....I had to keep telling my DD not to walk
ahead as there were cars and intersections to watch out for.

Definately felt like an "unmagical" walk....But like I said
I had a great time.....but that is a real negative.

BTW....Is OKW designed the same way?
Thanks
Kerri

 

[Chuck S]

While they could possibly do that with some areas of SSR, other areas they could not. Remember, they were leaving and utilizing some buildings from the old Disney Village/Disney Institute resort, and the LBV clubhouse, all of which needed road access.

But I do see the point of the OP as to design, just driving throgh SSR as compared to OKW he roads system seemed a little different.

 

[groverdog]

I have to agree also. I do love SSR but the layout could have been soooooo much better. I especially hate the boat launch area, I understand why it has to be that way but I don't like it

 

[Granny]

How could the famed Imagineers, working with such a similar piece of land, have overlooked this very simple but brilliant piece of design when planning SSR? How could they have designed their showcase DVC property with roads cutting throughout the complex and parking lots disconnecting all the buildings? The end result is that there are no "inside" grounds. They've been replaced by a sea of concrete, busses and cars. And walking to the resort from your room is anything but transporting, unless you count being transported to an apartment complex.

Consider for a moment how different, how much better, the SSR experience would be if the parking lots and roads we're simply placed on the outside of the property: The buildings would be closer together, and the inside would consist of nothing but trees, trails, and lawns, where your kids could run to the pool without the risk of being run over. What a heartbreaking missed opportunity.

I don't have a specific opinion on SSR, having never stayed there but have visited it a few times now. But I think the designers were working hard to give SSR buildings some space between each other and the roads & parking provides some of that.

Right now, you see a lot of "concrete, busses and cars" but once the landscaping grows up, that should greatly diminish. Imagine OKW with new landscaping....it would not have anywhere the same ambience though it does have the benefit of having a golf course to border on.

If you took all of the SSR buildings and put them in the middle of an outside road that ringed the complex, then to me it would look even more like the "apartment complex" that some feel it already looks like. And there would have to be a lot of villas that would be a pretty good walk from whatever parking spaces would be there.

I'm not saying that the Brian's idea is a bad one. I'm just thinking that there was probably a reason the resort was designed in the manner that it is. Once vegetation grows in, we may think that those roads meandering through the charming "Saratoga village" are very nice...similar to OKW.

 

[RumpleMom]

I have stayed at POR, OKW and SSR.

I understand op's idea and it is lovely. However, as the years have passed, it has become more important to us to rent a car to avoid ever having to stand on a bus, thus we are choosing resorts where there is an easy walk to and from our car. We can still walk the parks, but any extra walking that can be eliminated is very much appreciated. We also bring the grandparents who are mid 80's.

 

[RSoxFan]

OP, I completely agree with you. We always stayed at POR or POFQ before we bought into DVC. We were highly disappointed with SSR and are very glad that our home is BCV. We still love POR though. There really is something "special" about that resort.

 

[Brian430]

Hi Rumplemom

We like being close to our rental car also.

But when we stayed at PO we found the parking was very close to each building even though the roads and lots ring the outside of the resort

And the inside grounds are simply stunning.

It really is a superior layout...

 

[RobDoc]

Your sense of the two resorts is very reasonable. With PO they had the luxury of having the roadway surround the resort, allowing for good access to the residential areas. SSR (and even OKW) had a different issue since those resorts were built within an existing golf course and the location of the roadways had to take the course into consideration.

I'd disagree that SSR has no communal area, but that is likely just a difference in personal appeal. I find both resorts to have nice theming and don't have a problem with the location of the roadways. Having grown up near Saratoga, NY , I find the theming and layout of the resort complimentary to it's namesake.

Thanks for your comments!

 

[LSchrow]

interesting....
we loved SSR, but i think that your post made sense. since we were at CP, we used the walkway frequently.
loved the evening quiet as we walked along the water, the elegant decor, & cleanliness. the buses & parking lots were so convenient, & there if/as needed.

yet, PO is our least fav moderate....too dark & dirty for our tastes.

interesting how diff ppl see the same things differently..........

 

[jbrowna]

As I recall, the Port Orleans resort is on both sides of the river -- so the roads can be situated on the outside of the buildings and still allow the buildings to have the view of the river. How could they have done that at SSR, as it's only on the one side of the river? If you put the buildings inside of a perimeter road, then the road and parking would come between the water and the river, right? And, in line with that sort of design, the "front" for each of the building would of necessity face inward, away from DTD. The view of DTD -- which so many seem to appreciate -- would be over parking lots and the perimeter road. Not, too my mind, very appealing.

I've walked along the river, from DTD through Congress Park, over through the Carriage House area to the Grandstand, and then back across to DTD on the westside. It certainly -- to me at least -- has that communal "feel", in places. I do wish they had some access that stayed along the water, rather than having to go back "inland" and walk along the road by the theater and all that stuff.

Unfortunately, one can only get to the Springs, the Paddocks, or the Carousel across the roads and parking lots inside of SSR. But, it seems to me, within each of those units there is some nice communal space, and the Springs and the Paddocks face the central body of water (does it have a name?), with the parking and roads on the outside. Only the Carousel seems to be short on that, but -- having never even walked by there -- I can't say that for sure. Certainly the BBQ area between the Carousel buildings looks like it might provide some nice "magical" space.

No, it's not laid out as nicely as Port Orleans in that regard. But I think they did pretty well for what they had to work with. JMO.

 

[LIFERBABE]

As I recall, the Port Orleans resort is on both sides of the river -- so the roads can be situated on the outside of the buildings and still allow the buildings to have the view of the river. How could they have done that at SSR, as it's only on the one side of the river? If you put the buildings inside of a perimeter road, then the road and parking would come between the water and the river, right? And, in line with that sort of design, the "front" for each of the building would of necessity face inward, away from DTD. The view of DTD -- which so many seem to appreciate -- would be over parking lots and the perimeter road. Not, too my mind, very appealing.

I've walked along the river, from DTD through Congress Park, over through the Carriage House area to the Grandstand, and then back across to DTD on the westside. It certainly -- to me at least -- has that communal "feel", in places. I do wish they had some access that stayed along the water, rather than having to go back "inland" and walk along the road by the theater and all that stuff.

Unfortunately, one can only get to the Springs, the Paddocks, or the Carousel across the roads and parking lots inside of SSR. But, it seems to me, within each of those units there is some nice communal space, and the Springs and the Paddocks face the central body of water (does it have a name?), with the parking and roads on the outside. Only the Carousel seems to be short on that, but -- having never even walked by there -- I can't say that for sure. Certainly the BBQ area between the Carousel buildings looks like it might provide some nice "magical" space.

No, it's not laid out as nicely as Port Orleans in that regard. But I think they did pretty well for what they had to work with. JMO.

I 100% agree with everything you wrote.

OP no flames from me, I have thought about this also, but with further thought I came to the same conclusions posted by jbrowna.

No resort is perfect, but I think SSR has some of the prettiest park-like settings of any of the DVC's.
BCV has horrible views all the way around and no grass, but we love it there also, just for different reasons.

 

[crisi]

Your sense of the two resorts is very reasonable. With PO they had the luxury of having the roadway surround the resort, allowing for good access to the residential areas. SSR (and even OKW) had a different issue since those resorts were built within an existing golf course and the location of the roadways had to take the course into consideration.

I'd disagree that SSR has no communal area, but that is likely just a difference in personal appeal. I find both resorts to have nice theming and don't have a problem with the location of the roadways. Having grown up near Saratoga, NY , I find the theming and layout of the resort complimentary to it's namesake.

Thanks for your comments!

Walking around SSR, PO/POR and OKW last Spring I noticed something similar.

POR is very laid back, and the lack of roads really DOES make it very relaxing.

SSR has the roads detracting from that quite a bit.

What I was really surprised by, having never been there, was how invasive the roads at OKW were. The buildings were pretty much right on top of the roads. And the roads were very narrow. There weren't good walking paths through the resort. To me, SSR was a huge improvement on OKW - while roads and parking lots are scattered throughout the property, the buildings are set back from the roads, and there is plenty of green area and parking - OKW was squeezed between golf course and road. (I loved the public areas at OKW and SSR though - but did find the roads invasive).

Now, I'm one of those "hotel feel" DVC people. But prior to my visit I had felt I'd never be able to stay at SSR but OKW held charm for me. Post visit, I'd have to say I'd choose SSR over OKW just because of the road situation. (And I loved POR).

 

[murcor]

I really like SSR, but do wish you could walk around the resort without the main road and parking lots always within sight.

Im surprised they dont have a walkway along the river from Congress Park to the Carriage House.

The walk from the Paddocks over the bridge to the Carriage House is nice.

 

[Muushka]

OP, you hit the nail on the head with your assessment. We are huge Dixie Landings people, love everything about it (even though it is dark and dirty? Never heard that one! But that's what makes the world go 'round!). We loved SSR but I couldn't quite put my finger on what aspect I wasn't thrilled with. And that was it. Thank you (I think!)

 

[TenThousandVolts]

ITA- I LOVE SSR but the road that runs through the middle is a major buzzkill. They have big delivery trucks running through that street. It is weird. I love the idea of improving the boat launch area. You get off the boat and you feel like you are somewhere you aren't supposed to be.

I also love PO- very well themed and immersive.

 

[nezy]

I have always felt that better landscaping or as I say "Older Trees" would definately improve the feel of SSR. I agree about the parking though. It really could have been designed more like POR or HH. I think POR reminds me of HHI DVC -at least the Alligator Bayou section with the winding paths to other resort areas and the parking on the perimeter.