An AP is not an entitlement to codes

[TChrist05]

My wife and I are annual passholders for the past 10 years +. My daughter who is 26 sometimes buys the annual....sometimes does not...and we are Vacation Club members who own at Beach Club. We generally visit 3 times a year, and like to stay off peak for a variety of reasons, most importantly getting more nights for our points. We still book rooms since we really like to save the Friday night and Saturday night points which in my humble opinion is rather high. For many years, one of the selling points of buying the annual is all the little perks, and yes, the discounted room rate was one of the most valuable. I realize that Disney has the perogitive to change the way they do business, and we have to get used to it whether we like it or not. It is nice to sometimes make a "quick trip down", get a great room rate and spend a few nights in the world. We are going down for the 7 night Magic on 11/26 and staying for 2 nights after the cruise. As of now, there are no reservations available at the Beach Club for the 2 nights. As much as we are "Disney freaks", we will have absolutely no problem staying off property for the couple of nights we are going to stay. When we stay on property, we seldom go off to go out to eat etc....we just eat and shop at Disney.
We have been calling for the past week or so, since the Florida resident rates came out and have been told by reservations cast members that the rates are not in yet, and they are waiting for them. They may never come, and some people may make the decision not to make the quick trip down, or just find a cheaper room close to the parks. I think the jury is still out on how it will affect Disney....but it sure has created some debate among the DIS board members.....hopefully they drop a nice rate code and most everyone will be happy....I know my wife and I will be....Thanks for listening....
Tom

 

[dpic]

This thread should be locked. It was created to start arguments, and the usual cast of curmudgeons are happily joining in.

 

[dudspizza]

Bought an AP in August 2004 to get the room discounts at WL. Saved over $3000 on three rooms.

Because I had the AP, my family went back 10 months later for another 10 day trip. If I didn't have the AP, I dont' spend another $3000 going to Disney. My AP has now expired and I don't plan on visiting for a couple of years at least....

If AP discounts were still readily available, I would have renewed my AP and probably would be planning another trip... instead, we are going camping to the Black Hills next summer. Minnesota is a costly flight to just pop down to WDW for a trip...... Discounts get my family there along with other families that we refer to WDW.

So, Disney is out my money for now. Will I return... you bet, but not as soon as I would if they were offering nice AP discounts..... If they can fill all the rooms with folks paying rack, good for them... but I will take my camper and spend $20/night to camp....

Duds

 

[luvindisneyworld]

I agree that this thread was started for an argument.I could say alot but I want,because thats what the OP wants.

 

[DisFlan]

Please be truthful in this evaluation, did Disney truly handle BRP badly or did the Internet handle it badly, thus making it look like Disney handled it badly?

Disney handled it badly. At first, Disney stated the BRP was in addition to phone AP rates. Then it wasn't. Then they listed a 120 day requirement. Then it was 60 days. Next week we'll probably see something else change.

The inception and roll-out was just flat out confusing and badly managed.

As far as the internet part is concerned, Disney programs and controls their interface with the internet. If it was a problem, it was a Disney problem.

DisFlan

 

[safetymom]

People seem to be discussing this topic without attacking so for now the thread will stay open.

 

[hppy2bhome]

I'm a share holder too.

I bet I have more then you

Just wanted to change the subject.

Hppy2bhome

 

[shellybaxter]

There is no way a family who makes a "once in a lifetime" trip to WDW paying rack rate makes Disney more money than I do. We visit too many times and stay as many days as we can with our APs.

We ALL get APs and we buy them when we know we'll go multiple times in one years time. I don't buy it for the discount but when WDW is giving every other time of the year a discount if you have an AP, it sure would be nice if we could get our chosen time also.

I believe there is a way that Disney would make more money on a family on a once in a lifetime trip. You may stay more collective days, but Disney has to provide services to you for more days as well. I family staying 10 days GF main buildings with non-discounted tickets or meals could easily net Disney more money then the AP family staying 20 days with deeply discounted rooms, discounted tickets, and discounted food (DDE)

 

[shellybaxter]

Bought an AP in August 2004 to get the room discounts at WL. Saved over $3000 on three rooms.

Because I had the AP, my family went back 10 months later for another 10 day trip. If I didn't have the AP, I dont' spend another $3000 going to Disney. My AP has now expired and I don't plan on visiting for a couple of years at least....

If AP discounts were still readily available, I would have renewed my AP and probably would be planning another trip... instead, we are going camping to the Black Hills next summer. Minnesota is a costly flight to just pop down to WDW for a trip...... Discounts get my family there along with other families that we refer to WDW.

So, Disney is out my money for now. Will I return... you bet, but not as soon as I would if they were offering nice AP discounts..... If they can fill all the rooms with folks paying rack, good for them... but I will take my camper and spend $20/night to camp....

Duds

If I'm reading your post correctly, you would have spent an additional $3000 on your first trip without the AP discount. Buying the AP saved you the $3000 and allowed you to come back later and spend that $3000 at another time. I think thats great for you, but I'm not sure its great for Disney, business wise. Without the discounts you would have paid more for your first trip, Disney would have gotten more money for providing services for less time.

I don't think AP discounts are a bad idea, I just want to point out that Disney doesn't make tons of money on our AP discount trips and just because we (and I include myself, as I've gotten AP rate for my trips as well) go to Disney a lot, we my not be there "best" customers from a business stand point. I'm always thankful for whatever Disney decides to give me in terms of discounts, they make my trip more enjoyable. But I don't feel entitled to them, and I don't feel I'd have a valid right to complain if Disney stop offering them.

 

[Puffy2]

Whatever.

The only time I bought an annual pass was to get an ap rate on a concierge room - otherwise I wouldn't have been able to scrape together the dollars required for such a three day trip with a little grandure. I used the ap pass about a total of 6 or 7 days that year.

I've been going to Disney now yearly for about 5 years. I don't know about the rest of you but all I increasingly see is a greedy corporate theme park and less and less of the "magic kingdom" that Walt invisioned.

Disney can keep their concierge rooms, and their APs, and soon they can keep all of it because I've had about enough and it's time to move on to some other worthy pursuits.

Regardless, they'll continue to fill their rooms and their parks - well, except for the fact that gas increases will cut down on who is able to afford the vaction at all...that might have an impact in the coming year or beyond.

But again, whatever.

 

[dr2004]

I did not start this soley to start arguments, I really wanted to get everyone' thoughts since I was in the minority on this one.

This is about the only board on the internet where I can discuss something like this , take an unpopular stance and not get cursed at, shot down, banned, etc. which is why I love this board and discussing with the people on it even when I know my opinion is not going to be popular.

 

[DisneyMommyMichelle]

i will say i agree with the OP. I don't think it was started for arguments sake either.

And i also agree that the once in a lifetime trippers will spend a lot more than the APs...why? my dh and i went down last year with a HUGE group of family many from out of the country and this was to be their first and only visit. we had discount room, food, world of disney discounts....everything we did on the cheap and we stayed for almost an entire month. I can easily say one of my family members' family of 6 spent more than us on their 2week trip. Rack rate mod room, full price dining and souvenirs (many since they knew they wouldn't be coming back any time soon). Stuff to take back home to people that have not even heard of disney world (can you believe it!?!?) and then tickets at the GATE! (i told them this was nutso!! haha). IT goes on and on but they spent ALOT of money...and lo and behold they are going in December (without the kids!!) and then will be taking a Disney cruise (after seeing all our pics from our honeymoon cruise!)...

Just my OP have a great day everyone!! woo-hoo DH has the WHOLE day off what fun!

 

[SueEllen]

Please keep this civil. It is fine to discuss this, and to have differing opinions, but personal attacks will not be tolerated.

Sue Ellen

 

[thelionqueen]

From the posters who believe that AP holders are savvy disney visitors, I agree and disagree.

1st of all, I do believe AP holders will look for the better discounts on everything they can....why....they've been there before and know how expensive it is, so they are trying to save money.....Agreed

2nd of all, AP holders want to come back to Disney to get "their money's worth" out of the AP pass they bought which are expensive!!!....Agreed

Now the flip side...

AP holders tend to visit at least 2X per year, more if possible to get the use out of their pass. So, with that rationale, we are talking 2 5-10 day trips per year.

AP holders obviously love Disney and travelling to Disney, hence, spend money on Disney....lots of it (my personal opinion and habits )

AP holders know what Disney has to offer, so they can plan to do more things that a 1st time visitor might not even know about (Richard Petty, parasailing, LaNouba..etc)..thus..more $$

So here is where I am, again, no flames, just my opinion.

A friend of mine and her family went to DisneyWorld last summer for 7 nights. They stayed at ASMovies (rack rate) bought 10 MYW+ tickets and paid for all meals (3 character meals + all other dining inside WDW). Their total was $3000.00 not including airfare.

This year, we will be going to WDW 2X. The 2nd trip has not occured yet, but since we've already paid for it (got free dining) I will include only what we've spent so far.

1st trip...6 nights got AP rate @ Contemporary. Paid for all meals inside WDW (ate 2 meals off property...love Chic-Fil-A ) got 7 day MYW+Magic passes and souvies & etc. This trip cost us a total of $2900.00.

2nd trip...10 day free dining staying @ POP/OKW (rented points). Paid $1380.00 for package (not including cost of OKW points), budgeted $1500.00 for souvies, entertainment. This trip total will cost (at least) $2880.00

So, in our 2 trips (we wouldn't have 2nd trip without AP & free dining) we spent $5780.00

So, as AP holders, we are going 2X and on 2 trips spent $5800.00. VS 1 time visitor spending $3000.00

So, just in this example, and I am sure there are others that are contrary, but this example clearly shows nearly double spending by AP holder vs 1 time visitor. But, Disney knows what they are doing, and will make $$ with whatever they decide. I do also believe that they could and should have handled this better. Let's hope Iger will do some good....bye bye Mr. Eisner

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I agree that this thread was started for an argument.I could say alot but I want,because thats what the OP wants.

and I fell right into it's hands... I need to sit back & bite my tounge sometimes... I will be the first to admit it.
Your thoughts are 100% correct....

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I hate to say it , but outside of casinos not many places reward frequent visits. In a perfect world , they should have some sort of reward program, but we are not entitled to one. There is a reason SeaWorld and Universal offer dicount coupons and WDW does not. WDW does not have too. If enough people flood Universal, that would change.

After re-reading your post, I have to disagree with you on this comment as well. Nearly every major hotel chain has some sort of reward program for the freguent guest (yes I agree that they do not have to, but they do). Even the airlines do; frequent flyer miles, credit cards do; cash back or point bonus. So we may not be the perfect world, there are still many large corporations that give their frequent guests perks. Disney may not give "coupons" while the other 2 theme parks in Orlando do, they have been giving "codes". Codes are the same thing, just not using paper for it (saving trees ). A discount is a discount, paper or letters, it doesn't matter. If Disney didn't have to discount, why did they just (this year) allow non-Florida residents to have the Disney Dining & Entertainment Card... I can tell you why, so more guests will eat on property, I haven't seen SeaWorld or Universal coming out with that card yet?

 

[cslittle999]

thelionqueen, although you spent more in two trips than your friends did in their one, I would bet that Disney made more profit on the rack rate trip. Maybe more than your two combined. Total revenue is important but profit margin is more so. That's really where the discounts hit Disney, in the profit margin.

That's not to say that discounts are good for Disney profits. The overhead of running WDW means that Disney needs to keep people in the rooms and on-site. That's really the whole goal behind the dining plan. You commit to eating at Disney so you are going to other entertainment offsite.

 

[Sammie]

Disney handled it badly. At first, Disney stated the BRP was in addition to phone AP rates. Then it wasn't. Then they listed a 120 day requirement. Then it was 60 days. Next week we'll probably see something else change.

The inception and roll-out was just flat out confusing and badly managed.

As far as the internet part is concerned, Disney programs and controls their interface with the internet. If it was a problem, it was a Disney problem.

DisFlan

I guess then it comes down to perception of what is badly managed. I do not see change as a problem.

I would think everyone at this point would be glad they listed and changed the 120 to 60. As to Disney saying that BRP was in addition to the phone in rates at that particular time that was the truth, so again it was simply a matter of change.

As to the Internet problem I meant I think that many times Internet forums make situations seem worse than they truly are. Sorta a Sky is Falling Situation, when it truth it was simply one little acorn.

Many businesses do have frequent reward programs, those that need them to turn a profit. Believe me they don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts because they care for the repeat guests.

And some companies do not offer frequent buyer programs because they don't need them.

 

[minijeanie]

my whole problem with BR is the deposit and no refund. Any hotel across the USA allows you to cancel 24 hrs in advance with no deposit up front. Granted there are many hotels you can book online with a special rate and no cancellation but for the most part, you do have that cancellation option.

what gives disney the right to tie you into that time frame and take your money upfront. I for one will never book BR....I would never take the chance of losing my money.....

This aggravates me more than anything...

I have an AP and yes I bought it because I was going to go 3x this year. I was able to use the rate for June and was hoping for this coming November but it doesn't look like it will happen so I have booked off-site.

Next trip will be april 2006 which is a busy time. So I am sure that I will not be getting any discounts.

but quite honestly, I am starting to like the off site hotels with accomodations bigger and better than Disney could ever offer

 

[shellybaxter]

my whole problem with BR is the deposit and no refund. Any hotel across the USA allows you to cancel 24 hrs in advance with no deposit up front. Granted there are many hotels you can book online with a special rate and no cancellation but for the most part, you do have that cancellation option.
r

What about Expedia?? You have to pay in advance and there is no refund policy if you have to cancel, because they have discounted rooms. I have a room at the Grand Flordian booked with best rate in December. I only had to put down a one night non-refundable deposit. The rate available through expedia is higher and I would have to pay in full at the time of booking.

Disney still has a pretty liberal cancellation policy for non-discounted rooms, or even rooms with small discounts (like AAA).

Shelly