An Amazing Alternative to Purchasing more DVC Points

[starry_solo]

The WBC weeks that I usually rent out on Redweek have a 100% mark up. My maintenance cost is $647 + $45 for verified and protected fee and my rent is $1400. My SSR points won't sell with that high of a mark up. My cost per point per year on them is $11.7 because of the expiration date and buy in, but I've only gotten around $20 per point max. I mean I don't mind selling to DVC owners for that much passive income, but don't they realize they're paying a huge mark up? Or is it worth paying double to not be deeded in the system?

it’s worth it not to be deeded into the system.

 

[cbyrne1174]

I dont think we need to understand what they mean.

I pay $3500 upfront and then another $1829/yr to get 2 weeks. So you are paying about $130/night to stay in these timeshare locations.

I would worry that if during "the best of times" which we are sort of exiting right now it was worth only $3500 what does that mean during the worst of times when I might want to just unload my contracts and not pay anything.

I will also say that with DVC yes I paid more upfront but I can also recoup a bunch on the backend if I do sell as well. Plus if I was doing a studio at BWV I would pay roughly $1600/yr in fees for my 2 weeks. Yes it might not be something like a 1br at these resorts but its also at WDW walking distance to the parks.

No its not $1829 a year because you have to pay $164 for each deposit to exchange it and $99 each upgrade in unit size. It varies based on how you exchange it. Like if I want to deposit my entire 2 bedroom because I need to the exchange power of the entire thing, then I wouldn't pay the lock off fee because I'm not splitting the unit into 2 deposits. I would pay the $1476 MF + the $164 exchange fee for 1 week. I would have to deposit my entire 2 bedroom. If I wanted a 2 bedroom in Hawaii, this is how I would have to do it. A 1 bedroom doesn't have enough trading power.

If I split my 2 bedroom lock off into 2 units (1 bedroom + studio), then deposit both units into interval and exchange back into two different 2 bedroom units, it's $2,261 for 14 days of vacation ($161 per night in a 2 bedroom). It costs roughly 30%-40% more if you were to use points instead. That's why I made a video explaining it because it's a lot more complicated to get that savings.

 

[cbyrne1174]

it’s worth it not to be deeded into the system.

Then why is it worth it being deeded into Disney? I'm generally curious because that was the biggest thing that held me back from buying DVC. Disney keeps making stupid decisions about their products that lowers its own value. If its value tanks then I'm out how much I paid for it, but since I barely paid anything for Wyndham and Marriott, I'm not really out much money if the value tanks. I have the most to lose if Disney tanks.

 

[cbyrne1174]

How much yearly and if I want to get out of the contract will someone actually buy it if everything goes in the tank? Even in the worst times I expect I can sell off the DVC contract as opposed to needing to pay someone to take the contract off my hands.

But like others probably I would really never think about a timeshare except for Disney.

It's the exact same as DVC. If you don't care about getting your money back for your deed, then you can just call up Marriott and tell them you want them to take the deed back. I don't know why anyone would want to do that when they can still get what they paid for it back, but Marriott would love it because then they don't have to pay the resale value for it to get it back when they exercise ROFR.

Here is the link to give your ownership back: https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/exit/

The Marriott equivolent of DVCresalemarket is called Redweek and TUG Marketplace and you just hire a closing company like LT Transfers to record a new warranty deed once you find a buyer. There are also companies that charge a fee to find a buyer for you, but with Marriott it isn't necessary because it's easy to find someone else to take over as long as you didn't buy something stupid like silver (summer) season at a ski resort.

 

[starry_solo]

Then why is it worth it being deeded into Disney? I'm generally curious because that was the biggest thing that held me back from buying DVC. Disney keeps making stupid decisions about their products that lowers its own value. If its value tanks then I'm out how much I paid for it, but since I barely paid anything for Wyndham and Marriott, I'm not really out much money if the value tanks. I have the most to lose if Disney tanks.

right now, DVC is holding its value in resale, even going up. That’s not the same with other timeshares

 

[cbyrne1174]

Marriott has gone up a lot in the past few years too. Especially points. Marriott has being ROFR all the good deals. They've literally doubled in priced since 2019 if you want to pass ROFR.

 

[sethschroeder]

Here is the link to give your ownership back: https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/exit/

So I went there it has nothing on the terms of their requirement to actually take the contract. All that outlines is that they will help you.

Slightly outdated from 2018:
https://www.redweek.com/resources/ask-redweek/will-marriott-buy-my-timeshare-back

Per them "The terms are simple: IF the company wants to take back ownership of a specific deeded week, MVC will prepare the documents and close the transaction within 90 days."

So I am not seeing anything that doesn't point to a possibility of being stuck with a contract.

Now Disney is not required to buy back your contract but DVC will always hold some value unless the parks go outright under since your MFs are always going to be less than Cash. I can't say that for a variety of these other resorts where you can go next door and potentially get a similar quality product. With DVC your only non-Disney alternative with the same access is going to be Swan/Dolphin.

If its written in the contract somewhere they have to take it off your hands for no cost upon your request let me know as that changes the game.

That's why I made a video explaining it because it's a lot more complicated to get that savings.

Except it gives most people a rough idea of what you might be paying which is good enough for a top level view. I would not worry about all the details unless the initial math even looked remotely intriguing. Have to be honest the only difference I am really seeing based on that math is a lower upfront cost but the yearly costs will be lower and its at the location I am wanting.

The draw of DVC is going to be primarily location. If it were not for WDW I would likely visit central FL maybe 2 times a decade to get to Universal or Legoland or something.

If its value tanks then I'm out how much I paid for it, but since I barely paid anything for Wyndham and Marriott, I'm not really out much money if the value tanks. I have the most to lose if Disney tanks.

Except everyone has historicals on Disney tanking and still being fairly valuable and rebounding. With other systems you hear issues of not being able to give away contracts. The contract being so low to start with in my opinion points to some potential issues. If the savings were that great and people were hankering for the locations so much then you would be driving a rental market larger enough to up the buy-in cost (which is what happens with DVC and it sounds like possibly very certain Marriot contracts).

Additionally location location location. I can see value in a location on property at WDW and I am doubtful that draw would ever go away for more than a very short term downturn. Flip side I can't say that is the case with these other timeshare locations where there is much more competition in the areas for visitors and no exclusivity built in to the area.

As an example if Marriot owned Breackenridge for all hotels and timeshares except for ones fairly far from the ski hills then I could see the value in owning that possibly (although for us it would not make sense).

Marriott has gone up a lot in the past few years too. Especially points. Marriott has being ROFR all the good deals. They've literally doubled in priced since 2019 if you want to pass ROFR.

Except its $3000 for 2 weeks worth of points. So there is really no value in the base contract just a liability it would seem if the math flips and all of a sudden Marriott decides to go back in time to not buy back contracts. Then it becomes a bidding war trying to get people to rent your contract or pay them to take your contract.

With DVC there is always going to be a base for renting out your contract unless WDW goes under. As right now I could rent out my points for around the same price as a Value or low end Moderate resort room would cost on cash with Disney. This would "get me by" for the short term until resale rates recovered.

Possibly you can do the same with Marriot as well depending on your contract but again WDW >>>>> Everything Else as far as the draw it has. Plus you have the exclusivity at WDW where as having access to all of these other resorts the resort is the draw not the location as much since there is likely 2 or 3 other options in the near vicinity with the same access to all the entertainment in the region.

I guess in my view I just see WDW as something completely different since they own a ton of land, have 4 of the top like 8 theme parks on that land, and have a fairly large buffer from other option. Like I said earlier the best I can come up with is like if someone owned one of the top vacation destinations by themselves except for more remote hotel/resort offerings.

 

[cbyrne1174]

So I went there it has nothing on the terms of their requirement to actually take the contract. All that outlines is that they will help you.

Slightly outdated from 2018:
https://www.redweek.com/resources/ask-redweek/will-marriott-buy-my-timeshare-back

Per them "The terms are simple: IF the company wants to take back ownership of a specific deeded week, MVC will prepare the documents and close the transaction within 90 days."

So I am not seeing anything that doesn't point to a possibility of being stuck with a contract.

Now Disney is not required to buy back your contract but DVC will always hold some value unless the parks go outright under since your MFs are always going to be less than Cash. I can't say that for a variety of these other resorts where you can go next door and potentially get a similar quality product. With DVC your only non-Disney alternative with the same access is going to be Swan/Dolphin.

If its written in the contract somewhere they have to take it off your hands for no cost upon your request let me know as that changes the game.



Except it gives most people a rough idea of what you might be paying which is good enough for a top level view. I would not worry about all the details unless the initial math even looked remotely intriguing. Have to be honest the only difference I am really seeing based on that math is a lower upfront cost but the yearly costs will be lower and its at the location I am wanting.

The draw of DVC is going to be primarily location. If it were not for WDW I would likely visit central FL maybe 2 times a decade to get to Universal or Legoland or something.



Except everyone has historicals on Disney tanking and still being fairly valuable and rebounding. With other systems you hear issues of not being able to give away contracts. The contract being so low to start with in my opinion points to some potential issues. If the savings were that great and people were hankering for the locations so much then you would be driving a rental market larger enough to up the buy-in cost (which is what happens with DVC and it sounds like possibly very certain Marriot contracts).

Additionally location location location. I can see value in a location on property at WDW and I am doubtful that draw would ever go away for more than a very short term downturn. Flip side I can't say that is the case with these other timeshare locations where there is much more competition in the areas for visitors and no exclusivity built in to the area.

As an example if Marriot owned Breackenridge for all hotels and timeshares except for ones fairly far from the ski hills then I could see the value in owning that possibly (although for us it would not make sense).



Except its $3000 for 2 weeks worth of points. So there is really no value in the base contract just a liability it would seem if the math flips and all of a sudden Marriott decides to go back in time to not buy back contracts. Then it becomes a bidding war trying to get people to rent your contract or pay them to take your contract.

With DVC there is always going to be a base for renting out your contract unless WDW goes under. As right now I could rent out my points for around the same price as a Value or low end Moderate resort room would cost on cash with Disney. This would "get me by" for the short term until resale rates recovered.

Possibly you can do the same with Marriot as well depending on your contract but again WDW >>>>> Everything Else as far as the draw it has. Plus you have the exclusivity at WDW where as having access to all of these other resorts the resort is the draw not the location as much since there is likely 2 or 3 other options in the near vicinity with the same access to all the entertainment in the region.

2 weeks worth of Marriott points are about $20,000-$30,000 buy-in on the resale market when you include transfer fees. That's why I don't own them because of their price. IDK where you're getting $3k from. That's weeks, not points. Marriott usually does take back weeks to turn them into Destination Club points because it's cheaper than ROFR on the points that were already converted from weeks.

You just explained why I own so much Wyndham. I know I can rent out Bonnet Creek for 2x my maintenance fees in the current market so I know that no matter what I can always rent to at least break even because WBC is the economical choice. I can rent out a 12 night stay in the fall when the Christmas decorations are up and the weather is tolerable for $770 for all 12 nights ($64.50 a night) and break even on my costs because I have good deeds.

 

[Paul Stupin]

So I went there it has nothing on the terms of their requirement to actually take the contract. All that outlines is that they will help you.

Slightly outdated from 2018:
https://www.redweek.com/resources/ask-redweek/will-marriott-buy-my-timeshare-back

Per them "The terms are simple: IF the company wants to take back ownership of a specific deeded week, MVC will prepare the documents and close the transaction within 90 days."

So I am not seeing anything that doesn't point to a possibility of being stuck with a contract.

Now Disney is not required to buy back your contract but DVC will always hold some value unless the parks go outright under since your MFs are always going to be less than Cash. I can't say that for a variety of these other resorts where you can go next door and potentially get a similar quality product. With DVC your only non-Disney alternative with the same access is going to be Swan/Dolphin.

If its written in the contract somewhere they have to take it off your hands for no cost upon your request let me know as that changes the game.



Except it gives most people a rough idea of what you might be paying which is good enough for a top level view. I would not worry about all the details unless the initial math even looked remotely intriguing. Have to be honest the only difference I am really seeing based on that math is a lower upfront cost but the yearly costs will be lower and its at the location I am wanting.

The draw of DVC is going to be primarily location. If it were not for WDW I would likely visit central FL maybe 2 times a decade to get to Universal or Legoland or something.



Except everyone has historicals on Disney tanking and still being fairly valuable and rebounding. With other systems you hear issues of not being able to give away contracts. The contract being so low to start with in my opinion points to some potential issues. If the savings were that great and people were hankering for the locations so much then you would be driving a rental market larger enough to up the buy-in cost (which is what happens with DVC and it sounds like possibly very certain Marriot contracts).

Additionally location location location. I can see value in a location on property at WDW and I am doubtful that draw would ever go away for more than a very short term downturn. Flip side I can't say that is the case with these other timeshare locations where there is much more competition in the areas for visitors and no exclusivity built in to the area.

As an example if Marriot owned Breackenridge for all hotels and timeshares except for ones fairly far from the ski hills then I could see the value in owning that possibly (although for us it would not make sense).



Except its $3000 for 2 weeks worth of points. So there is really no value in the base contract just a liability it would seem if the math flips and all of a sudden Marriott decides to go back in time to not buy back contracts. Then it becomes a bidding war trying to get people to rent your contract or pay them to take your contract.

With DVC there is always going to be a base for renting out your contract unless WDW goes under. As right now I could rent out my points for around the same price as a Value or low end Moderate resort room would cost on cash with Disney. This would "get me by" for the short term until resale rates recovered.

Possibly you can do the same with Marriot as well depending on your contract but again WDW >>>>> Everything Else as far as the draw it has. Plus you have the exclusivity at WDW where as having access to all of these other resorts the resort is the draw not the location as much since there is likely 2 or 3 other options in the near vicinity with the same access to all the entertainment in the region.

I guess in my view I just see WDW as something completely different since they own a ton of land, have 4 of the top like 8 theme parks on that land, and have a fairly large buffer from other option. Like I said earlier the best I can come up with is like if someone owned one of the top vacation destinations by themselves except for more remote hotel/resort offerings.

All really good points. Though I’m sure additional research might shed more light on exactly how these other timeshares work, they’re coming across in these discussions as confusingly complex.

 

[sethschroeder]

A $3,500 Marriott resale purchase gets you 2 weeks a year at a Marriott and the process is just as easy as DVC Resale Market (who I used for my DVC).

2 weeks worth of Marriott points are about $20,000-$30,000 buy-in on the resale market when you include transfer fees.

I am getting it from you. So I am not sure why I would drop $20k-$30k on Marriott to pay roughly the same money in annual fees as DVC to essentially get a worse product since its not on property at WDW?

 

[cbyrne1174]

I am getting it from you. So I am not sure why I would drop $20k-$30k on Marriott to pay roughly the same money in annual fees as DVC to essentially get a worse product since its not on property at WDW?

That's exactly why I don't own Marriott points. I don't think they're a good deal. I would buy DVC (which I own) over Marriott points (which I don't own) as well. I own a legacy week that has a much lower buy in cost and is always 30-40% cheaper per year vs using DC Trust points for the exact same accommodations. That's why I show Interval International in my video. You have to play the exchange game for Marriott to be cheap like Wyndham is. I was just trying to let other DVC owners know that you can get equal quality accommodations in other parts of the country using Interval and owning a Marriott week (NOT POINTS).

Two bedroom rack rate at Ko Olina next to Aulani is $1300+a night. You can get 2 bedrooms for around $240 a night by having a week and trading it. It's an even steeper discount than comparing DVC costs vs hotel room rack rate.

https://www.expedia.com/Kapolei-Hot...ctedRoomType=38041&selectedRatePlan=228266752

 

[Jgc014]

I am curious what other DVC owners with kids do for Non-Disney vacations? Prior to kids, we were 100% onboard with hotels. My husband only wanted to eat out, so no kitchen required, and I liked the hotel amenities and rewards systems. Honestly we have never been big huge rental property fans.

But with kids hotels don’t seem to suite our needs as well. This December we are doing two adjoining rooms in the Bahamas, but don’t love the lack of kitchen. We’ll see how it goes though…

 

[MICKIMINI]

This article about Wyndham Bonnet Creek was an eyeopener to me!

yesterland.com/bonnet.html

 

[dioxide45]

I will also say that with DVC yes I paid more upfront but I can also recoup a bunch on the backend if I do sell as well. Plus if I was doing a studio at BWV I would pay roughly $1600/yr in fees for my 2 weeks. Yes it might not be something like a 1br at these resorts but its also at WDW walking distance to the parks.

It is hard to put a price on location, but that is certainly something where DVC wins hands down. The issue is comparing apples and oranges. Your studio is great for two weeks, but where off site timeshares excel is giving you triple the space (in a two bedroom) for the same $1600 for 2 weeks. We also own Marriott Vacation Club and can easily book using getaways for even three weeks in a 2BR for less than $1600 at a resort such as Marriott's Grande Vista or Marriott's Harbour Lake. That is triple the space of a DVC deluxe studio and 50% more time for less than the $1600 you pay. A studio within walking distance is great, but many prefer more room and are okay with the 10-15 minute drive and park.

 

[dioxide45]

right now, DVC is holding its value in resale, even going up. That’s not the same with other timeshares

That isn't necessarily the issue here when you talk about resale timeshare. With a resale timeshare you might pay $3500. Who cares if it goes up or drops? At some point (at expiration) every DVC deed/contract will be worth $0. Someone has to take that hit. It may or may not be you depending on when you sell, but towards the end DVC resale contract prices will start to creep lower. It will probably be hard to sell a contract in the last few years of its life.

With any timeshare (DVC included), the value is in its use. Any money paid upfront is really just sunk. It is true that DVC holds resale value, but no one is advocating for buying other companies direct from the developer. Buying resale means the original owner already took the loss on the depreciation. As a resale owner, you don't need to worry about the resale value. If you paid $3,500 the most you can lose is $3,500. For DVC, if you pay $20K for a resale contract, you WILL lose $20K if you hold it through expiration.

I am certainly not saying one option is better than the other, but there are other options out there that can give you more value than DVC.

 

[karen4546]

Is Marriot timeshare sponsoring DiSboards? I fell down the rabbit hole and now that I’m back in the real world, I do not agree with the statement “ ….. just like DVC”.

Anyone have some oceanfront property in Arizona? I would love to sit on my front porch and see the sea.

 

[Paul Stupin]

That isn't necessarily the issue here when you talk about resale timeshare. With a resale timeshare you might pay $3500. Who cares if it goes up or drops? At some point (at expiration) every DVC deed/contract will be worth $0. Someone has to take that hit. It may or may not be you depending on when you sell, but towards the end DVC resale contract prices will start to creep lower. It will probably be hard to sell a contract in the last few years of its life.

With any timeshare (DVC included), the value is in its use. Any money paid upfront is really just sunk. It is true that DVC holds resale value, but no one is advocating for buying other companies direct from the developer. Buying resale means the original owner already took the loss on the depreciation. As a resale owner, you don't need to worry about the resale value. If you paid $3,500 the most you can lose is $3,500. For DVC, if you pay $20K for a resale contract, you WILL lose $20K if you hold it through expiration.

I am certainly not saying one option is better than the other, but there are other options out there that can give you more value than DVC.

I guess some of what you’re saying is true. But you’re not bringing up that, at least historically, one can sell a DVC contract prior to expiration and probably either get your money back or see it appreciate in value…which means (aside from opportunity cost) that years and years of vacations can be covered by the maintenance fees exclusively. So, it’s an incorrect statement to say that money paid upfront is “just sunk.”

For me, the bigger plus to DVC, in addition to being on property (which of course is huge), is also the theming and design of the hotels themselves. I think they exist on an entirely different level than other timeshares, which might indeed have first rate facilities, but also a generic design you can find anywhere. For me, they don’t provide the immersive escape provided by DVC.

 

[dioxide45]

So, it’s an incorrect statement to say that money paid upfront is “just sunk.”

My point is that at some point every DVC contract will be worth $0. Whether it is you that takes the loss or someone else, someone will. DVC won't buy them back for what you paid when the deeds expire. So to someone, sometime, the money paid will be sunk. In the end, if used properly, one should still come out ahead when you count in the purchase price and maintenance fees compared to booking Disney deluxe resorts direct through Disney.

 

[sethschroeder]

I am curious what other DVC owners with kids do for Non-Disney vacations? Prior to kids, we were 100% onboard with hotels. My husband only wanted to eat out, so no kitchen required, and I liked the hotel amenities and rewards systems. Honestly we have never been big huge rental property fans.

But with kids hotels don’t seem to suite our needs as well. This December we are doing two adjoining rooms in the Bahamas, but don’t love the lack of kitchen. We’ll see how it goes though…

For nondisney I want to actually travel. Its so easy to find options with multiple bedrooms and a kitchen if you want that. It's also avoids you being stuck in one location and allowing you to do 2-3 days here and 3-4 days there.

A studio within walking distance is great, but many prefer more room and are okay with the 10-15 minute drive and park.

Thing is I likely can find rentals off WDW for dirt cheap if I want and likely in line with just the fees someone pays. Plus it could actually be a house with a pool even as opposed to a complex.

It will probably be hard to sell a contract in the last few years of its life.

Nah not at all. Math will be dead easy to see what MFs vs cash discounts are and that will set the price.

5 years left at BWV and I want 40% off instead the 25-30% that Disney does on cash.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I am curious what other DVC owners with kids do for Non-Disney vacations? Prior to kids, we were 100% onboard with hotels. My husband only wanted to eat out, so no kitchen required, and I liked the hotel amenities and rewards systems. Honestly we have never been big huge rental property fans.

But with kids hotels don’t seem to suite our needs as well. This December we are doing two adjoining rooms in the Bahamas, but don’t love the lack of kitchen. We’ll see how it goes though…

We have a small camper and 2-3 short driving -distance camping trips per year. My parents and my wife's mother live close to beaches, so those are easy and cheap long weekends. We also don't consider Aulani to be a "Disney vacation," so we set that aside.

I don't have a ton of interest in international travel, but once our youngest is a bit older, we'll start checking off the national parks / 50 states. We don't usually cook on vacation, but don't like sleeping in the same room either, so we do either a multi-room villa or two standard rooms when we stay in hotels.