Amazon vs Macmillan

my3sonsagn

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Anyone heard about this? Thoughts?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jac...macmillan-titles-in-first-ebook-skirmish.html

Apparently Macmillan demanded that amazon change it's ebook pricing from the 9.99 they usually charge for Kindle books to the 14.99 Macmillan plans to charge on the iPad. Amazon disagreed saying that it costs so much less to publish an ebook than a "dead tree" book, and they responded to Macmillan's demands by pulling Macmillan published books from amazon - both the Kindle and the paper versions; the books are still available from 3rd party sellers, though.

My .02 is that amazon is right here; once a book is published in paper form, eform costs are very, very little - ebooks are almost pure profit. Also, since publishers include DRMs in ebooks which eliminates the advantages of paper books (lending, trading at a used book store, some even include expirations, etc) then the price should reflect that. I have no idea who will win, here, though.

Jennifer
 
I don't believe publishers should have the right to price fix their books across all retail sites - which is pretty much what they are trying to pull.

This is the first time major Publishers and Amazon have gone head to head. The last big one was over Amazon's right to let 3rd party sellers list used copies of books on the Amazon website, which largely cut into the Publishers sales revenue .... neither Publishers nor Authors make any money off the used book market.

This should be fun to watch because you know that if Macmillan is trying, the other large Publishers aren't far behind.
 
I think, on Monday, it will be time to head over to Amazon to buy up more stock. They are on the side of the public and the public will reward them in loyalty. :worship: :worship: :worship:

It was announced on the news the other day that Amazon's #1 selling item of all the items they have ever sold is <drum roll - but no surprise> the Kindle. And this, during a big economic downturn, with people out of work, etc. Yet, there are more than enough people to buy $300+ Kindles.

A month & a half ago, Amazon's stocks topped it's own all time high, ever. During the same economic downturn in the economy. This was for dropping the price on their Kindles and slashing the prices of some of their books during a price war with Walmart.

Macmillan sounds like they have not done enough research on Amazon or what makes Amazon successful. :sad2: If Macmillan wants Amazon to raise the price of their eBooks, they should figure out how to charge more to Amazon, so Amazon either is forced to raise their prices on Macmillan published books, or eat the loss in profits even more than they are.

What Macmillan also hasn't taken into account is, that with the DRMs, people can't trade or swap an eBook after reading. People have to think twice about buying a book for that price.

I think Amazon will win this one. People can go buy the iPad version for $15, but why, if Amazon can sell it for $9.99? :rolleyes:
 
The publishers, much like the music and movie industries, are tying to hold onto old revenue models. Right now when you get a book published many people sign over all of the rights to their publishers. There are tech savvy authors who are starting to only sign with publishers for the paper book and keeping the audio and electronic rights themselves. There is no reason an author couldn't self publish their books electronically or self record the audio (or pay a voice actor).

The power will slowly shift from the publishers back to the actual content creators. It used to be difficult to get your ideas out to the public. Now it is much easier and you don't need to pay a middle man to do it, at least not all of it.

I am eagerly waiting for the eventual collapse of the middle man. The less hands in the till between the creation of content and it's consumption the better it is for us. It will be a slow process as much of the public isn't ready to move onto the new models completely but it will slowly happen. Just like I no longer buy physical media for music and rarely buy it for movies I will eventually not need to buy it for books. Heck, eventually even physical books can be print on demand via the electronic file so I feel most publishing will be done by the authors just like music will eventually be distributed by the musicians and not labels.

As far as Amazon goes they will end up being the long term winners. A lot of people thing the new iPad will be a Kindle killer. I don't agree but I also know for a fact that Amazon doesn't care. They could care less about selling Kindles. They want to sell electronic books. The kindle was just a device they sold to try and push the e-books just like the only reason Apple sells iPods is to sell music via iTunes. Amazon really doesn't care what device you read their books on, they want you to read their books.

I think (and hope) they will stick to their guns and keep the books at the price they are at now. Long term as the things I predict above happens the natural price will fall.
 

There are a few major authors who are starting to figure it out. Anne Rice has been all over the place the past couple of months generating discussion on authors bypassing publishing houses and selling their eBooks directly through the internet.

Heck, if nothing else Amazon will probably just take some of that money they have sitting in their petty cash vaults and create their own Publishing house and start signing authors.
 
Heck, if nothing else Amazon will probably just take some of that money they have sitting in their petty cash vaults and create their own Publishing house and start signing authors.

Careful, you may be giving Jeff Bezos, (Amazon's owner) a new idea. :idea: The number one reason Amazon & Microsoft remained successful when many other dot com companies and like competitors failed is because Bezos & Bill Gates mission statements & visions for their companies have always been founded on creating products (Microsoft) or services (Amazon) that will greatly enhance, improve or make better the quality of life for their customers. :woohoo:

If Amazon needs to create their own publishing company so their customers can buy their eBooks in a timely manner, at a convenient the click of a button at home, and at a reasonable price, it sounds like something they would do. :idea: :thumbsup2

No where in Macmillan's, Apple or the other publishers concerns mentioned the customer, except how they should be able to squeeze more money out of them. :sad2:
 
The music industry showed their contempt for the consumer by colluding with large retail outlets like Tower Records to keep CD prices artificially high---proven in a class action lawsuit the industry lost---then fought tooth and nail to prevent the advent of digital downloads of music.

The consumer fought back by using sites like Napster---not because it was free so much as it was convenience. The consumer proved they were willing to pay a fair price for downloaded music with the advent of iTunes but the industry jerks wanted us to keep buying $18 CDs. Ludicrous.

The consumer won the music battle and will win the book battle. Barnes and Noble and Amazon have wisely entered the e-book business. I suspect that booksellers and publishers that resist it will find themselves out of business.
 
The number one reason Amazon ... remained successful when many other dot com companies and like competitors failed is because Bezos ... mission statements & visions for their companies have always been founded on creating ... services (Amazon) that will greatly enhance, improve or make better the quality of life for their customers. :woohoo:

Took out the one I didn't agree with, but yay, someone else who adores Bezos (or at least what he's done). Since the first time I was in a room (albeit large) with him, hearing in person his crazy laugh, I've had a crush on him. :lovestruc He's just so stinkin' smart, and he surrounds himself with other smart people. At the company, they *still* sit at "door desks", though they have become much more user-friendly since '99 when I first sat at one. It's the very foundation of the company, and he still honors that, even while making crazy-inventive things that look like magic, like the Kindle.


Amazon's Kindle dept has been extremely clear on the pricing they require! If MacMillan didn't notice that, well, they should fire their lawyers because someone wasn't paying attention!
 
The music industry showed their contempt for the consumer by colluding with large retail outlets like Tower Records to keep CD prices artificially high---proven in a class action lawsuit the industry lost---then fought tooth and nail to prevent the advent of digital downloads of music.

The consumer fought back by using sites like Napster---not because it was free so much as it was convenience. The consumer proved they were willing to pay a fair price for downloaded music with the advent of iTunes but the industry jerks wanted us to keep buying $18 CDs. Ludicrous.

The consumer won the music battle and will win the book battle. Barnes and Noble and Amazon have wisely entered the e-book business. I suspect that booksellers and publishers that resist it will find themselves out of business.

:thumbsup2
 
My understanding is that it is a battle over who should set the price for books. Macmillan thinks that they should set the price and Amazon thinks that they should. Apple is letting publishers set the price (unlike what they did with music), but they are also taking a larger cut.
 
Message from Amazon via Dear Author:

Dear Customers:
Macmillan, one of the “big six” publishers, has clearly communicated to us that, regardless of our viewpoint, they are committed to switching to an agency model and charging $12.99 to $14.99 for e-book versions of bestsellers and most hardcover releases.

We have expressed our strong disagreement and the seriousness of our disagreement by temporarily ceasing the sale of all Macmillan titles. We want you to know that ultimately, however, we will have to capitulate and accept Macmillan’s terms because Macmillan has a monopoly over their own titles, and we will want to offer them to you even at prices we believe are needlessly high for e-books. Amazon customers will at that point decide for themselves whether they believe it’s reasonable to pay $14.99 for a bestselling e-book. We don’t believe that all of the major publishers will take the same route as Macmillan. And we know for sure that many independent presses and self-published authors will see this as an opportunity to provide attractively priced e-books as an alternative.

Kindle is a business for Amazon, and it is also a mission. We never expected it to be easy!

Thank you for being a customer.
 
Snipped from another site, so I have no link for this.

This was from 6 pm last night. It give MacMillian's side:

Amazon did not respond to a request for comment. Macmillan CEO John Sargent issued this statement moments ago, addressed to Macmillan authors, illustrators, and the literary agent community:

“This past Thursday I met with Amazon in Seattle. I gave them our proposal for new terms of sale for e-books under the agency model which will become effective in early March. In addition, I told them they could stay with their old terms of sale, but that this would involve extensive and deep windowing of titles. By the time I arrived back in New York late yesterday afternoon they informed me that they were taking all our books off the Kindle site, and off Amazon. The books will continue to be available on Amazon.com through third parties. I regret that we have reached this impasse. Amazon has been a valuable customer for a long time, and it is my great hope that they will continue to be in the very near future. They have been a great innovator in our industry, and I suspect they will continue to be for decades to come. It is those decades that concern me now, as I am sure they concern you. In the ink-on-paper world we sell books to retailers far and wide on a business model that provides a level playing field, and allows all retailers the possibility of selling books profitably. Looking to the future and to a growing digital business, we need to establish the same sort of business model, one that encourages new devices and new stores. One that encourages healthy competition. One that is stable and rational. It also needs to insure that intellectual property can be widely available digitally at a price that is both fair to the consumer and allows those who create it and publish it to be fairly compensated. Under the agency model, we will sell the digital editions of our books to consumers through our retailers. Our retailers will act as our agents and will take a 30% commission (the standard split today for many digital media businesses). The price will be set for each book individually. Our plan is to price the digital edition of most adult trade books in a price range from $14.99 to $5.99. At first release, concurrent with a hardcover, most titles will be priced between $14.99 and $12.99. E-books will almost always appear day on date with the physical edition. Pricing will be dynamic over time. The agency model would allow Amazon to make more money selling our books, not less. We would make less money in our dealings with Amazon under the new model. Our disagreement is not about short-term profitability but rather about the long-term viability and stability of the digital book market. Amazon and Macmillan both want a healthy and vibrant future for books. We clearly do not agree on how to get there. Meanwhile, the action they chose to take last night clearly defines the importance they attribute to their view. We hold our view equally strongly. I hope you agree with us. You are a vast and wonderful crew. It is impossible to reach you all in the very limited timeframe we are working under, so I have sent this message in unorthodox form. I hope it reaches you all, and quickly. Monday morning I will fully brief all of our editors, and they will be able to answer your questions. I hope to speak to many of you over the coming days. Thanks for all the support you have shown in the last few hours; it is much appreciated. All best, John.”
 
The Dear Author (blog) has an interesting take on this. Jane there is an attorney, although she's the first one to say that this isn't her area. She brings up some very interesting points.

http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2010/01/31/is-macmillans-retail-price-maintenance-move-legal/

Is Macmillan’s Retail Price Maintenance Move Legal?

Please note: I am not an expert in antitrust law. I’m giving my own interpretation of the law. There are a myriad of legal issues implicated by this situation, not the least of which is Amazon’s own publishing ambitions and possible anti competitive behavior.

Macmillan announced yesterday that it would be selling all of its ebooks at a minimum retail price that would disallow any discounting by a retailer. Macmillan would set the price and the retailer gets a cut (30%). Retail price maintenance is often used for luxury goods such as Allan Edmonds, Coach, and the like. Nine West had engaged in RPM and was slapped by the FTC until the Leegin decision came down in 2007.

For 97 years, the Supreme Court had deemed RPM as per se illegal. This meant that if a supplier was engaged in it, they were in violation of the antitrust law. But in a 5-4 decision with heated dissents, Leegin made RPM legal, under some circumstances. (For lawyers out there, vertical price restraints were changed from per se illegal to being judged under the rule of reason).

The argument made in the Leegin decision by the manufacturer (or supplier) was that RPM was necessary to protect a manufacturer from “free riding”. Free riding is where a consumer would go to a high end store and learn all about the product from trained and specialized customer support individuals and then go to a discounter and buy the product. The discounter would not have invested in the specialized customer support that the high end retailer had.

As an example of this, Nine West proffered the instance:
For example, in one instance an independent retailer with minimal floor space who provided little customer service offered Nine West styles at rock-bottom prices, taking advantage of a nearby retailer’s superior customer service, displays and advertising.

Or from the Leegin decision:

If the consumer can then buy the product from a retailer that discounts because it has not spent capital providing services or developing a quality reputation, the high-service retailer will lose sales to the discounter, forcing it to cut back its services to a level lower than consumers would otherwise prefer. Minimum resale price maintenance alleviates the problem because it prevents the discounter from undercutting the service provider.

In Amazon’s case, however, it provides more service than most retailers. It is not in the position of the deep discounter who benefits from the training and service of the high end retailer. The danger of free riding isn’t necessarily there. Often people use Amazon’s database to provide information about upcoming books, covers, and consumer reviews without actually purchasing from Amazon. Books are not a product that require expertise to purchase.

The majority of the Justices in Leegin, led by Justice Kennedy, felt the RPM could increase interbrand competition. Interbrand is the competition among manufacturers selling different brands of the same type of product. Interbrand competition is, generally, what the antitrust laws target.

Resale price maintenance also has the potential to give consumers more options so that they can choose among low-price, low-service brands; high-price, high-service brands; and brands that fall in between.

In terms of the book market, this would mean that Amazon, and others, would promote the low-price brands like Samhain, self published authors, authors using Amazon’s publishing service, independent publishers, and the like. The high-price products would be those of Macmillan and other publishers who would seek a price floor.

Of course, books are a unique product in that each book is its own tiny monopoly. No one else can produce and publish a Stephen King book. There are other mystery books and other horror books but there is no other Stephen King. So is Macmillan attempting to use RPM to gain monopoly profits improperly?

The Supreme Court gave little guidance as to what would be deemed improper. It said that the following factors are relevant:

*Number of manufacturers that are engaging in RPM
*Source of the restraint (i.e., if it came from the retailer versus the manufacturer)
*Manufacturer’s market power

The agency model and the RPM is good for new entrants who don’t have the market power of Amazon. Mike Tamblyn of Kobo Books and Bob Livosi of Books on Board have both said that $9.99 price point isn’t sustainable for them, as retailers, presumably because they couldn’t afford to suffer the loss that Amazon could. In fact, one retailer of ebooks informed us that they purchased ebooks at Amazon so that Amazon would take the loss instead of their company. New entrants into the market is a pro competitive aspect even if price increases are anticompetitive (antitrust is supposedly all about protecting the consumer).

Amazon itself could be engaged in anticompetitive behavior by refusing to allow access to 90% of the ebook market by tying the print sales to the ebook prices.

Justice Stevens noted the dangers of RPM in the dissent:

In doing so, they can prevent dealers from offering customers the lower prices that many cus-tomers prefer; they can prevent dealers from responding tochanges in demand, say falling demand, by cutting prices; they can encourage dealers to substitute service, for price,competition, thereby threatening wastefully to attract too many resources into that portion of the industry; they caninhibit expansion by more efficient dealers whose lower prices might otherwise attract more customers, stifling the development of new, more efficient modes of retailing; and so forth.

RPM has served to increase prices for consumers. Comparing the States who had allowed for RPM versus the States that had not, the Department of Justice argued that minimum resale price maintenance had raised prices by 19% to 27%. There are several other sources that note that RPM results in higher prices:

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) staff, after studying numerousprice surveys, wrote that collectively the surveys “indicate[d] that [resale price maintenance] in most cases increased the prices of products sold with [resale price maintenance].” Bureau of Economics Staff Report to the FTC, T. Overstreet, Resale Price Maintenance: Economic Theories and Empirical Evidence, 160 (1983) (hereinafter Overstreet). Most economists today agree that, in the words of a prominent antitrust treatise, “resale pricemaintenance tends to produce higher consumer pricesthan would otherwise be the case.” 8 Areeda & Hovenk-amp ¶1604b, at 40 (finding “[t]he evidence . . . persuasive on this point”). See also Brief for William S. Comanor and Frederic M. Scherer as Amici Curiae 4 (“It is uniformly acknowledged that [resale price maintenance] and other vertical restraints lead to higher consumer prices”).

However, the landscape for RPM is changing. In 2009, Maryland became the first state to pass legislation expressly contradicting the decision in Leegin.
“[A] contract, combination, or conspiracy that establishes a minimum price below which a retailer, wholesaler, or distributor may not sell a commodity or service is an unreasonable restraint of trade or commerce.

The question of whether State laws can override federal antitrust interpretations is still up in the air (this is called preemption).

To further complicate matters, the Fourth Circuit found that if there was a true agency relationship, this defeated any claims of improper price fixing after Leegin. In true agency relationship, the manufacturer (publisher) holds the ownership of the book and sells it to the consumer directly. The bookseller, like Amazon, only assists in the sale. Amazon would not be a reseller in this circumstance. Instead the sale is made from the publisher to the consumer. An example of this would be real estate agents. These agents facilitate the sale between the owner of a house and the buyer of the house. The real estate agent doesn’t buy the house and then resell it.

In a true agency relationship, one wonders whether Macmillan would have to source the digital file and provide the DRM as well because Macmillan must be in control of the book, must remain the “owner” of the digital file until the ownership transfers to the reader.

Individually, Macmillan may be able to prevail under Leegin standards. A supplier can refuse to deal with retailers who do not follow suggested pricing. Further, Macmillan is only one publisher. Should all six follow suit, however, and attempt to enforce a retail price minimum across the board, Amazon would be in a much better position to argue that the publishers have tacitly created a horizontal cartel to artificially set prices above market conditions.
I don’t think Macmillan can back down now. To do so would seem to harm it’s negotiating power with Amazon for a long time. Can Amazon serve its customers with just the secondary market? I’m unsure.


There might still be some recourse to this battle.
 
yeesh - huge boycott Macmillan effort going on over on the Amazon forum tonight.

Well, I've pretty much been there for about a year anyway in regards to Macmillan books. There are several authors I enjoy from those imprints but I mostly read eBooks and Macmillan has been famously anti-eBook. They delay releases, put really high list prices on the files and then the President made some moronic statement on why he's against libraries loaning eBooks. I'm a pretty easy going person but when the President of a publishing house starts taking potshots at public libraries I get pretty angered.
 












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