Amazing Race #22, NON-spoiler thread!

[TLSnell1981]

I just wish the most vitriolic anti-communists (again, haven't seen that here) would stop and appreciate the irony of themselves pushing for censorship and limits on free speech. Nice.

There are many more...criticizing this decision, not just the most vitriolic anti-communists. It it were on the History channel, you wouldn't hear the outrage. It's a family show in prime time and was in HORRIBLE taste.!!

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

This memorial is actual wreckage, that honors the killing of American soldiers. The pro communist song, along with the translation was unnecessary. I'm critical of CBS and TAR for their decision to tape and air those segments. Once again, our Vietnam vets are spit on.. It's disgusting.

I truly mean no disrespect but the wreckage of that plane was not the result of a B 52 bomber just innocently flying by. The B-52 was dropping bombs that kill. The North Vietnamese shot back. It's called war.

I appreciate our men in arms and am not criticizing----war is hell. But for us to only value American life and to disregard the lives of others who suffer is wrong. I feel for every Vietnam veteran (and for veterans of all wars) but to censor the reality that is Vietnam today (i.e. socialist and in control of the types of war memorials built in their cities) accomplishes nothing except to make Americans more ignorant of the world they live in.

 

[Sorsha]

I truly mean no disrespect but the wreckage of that plane was not the result of a B 52 bomber just innocently flying by. The B-52 was dropping bombs that kill. The North Vietnamese shot back. It's called war.

I appreciate our men in arms and am not criticizing----war is hell. But for us to only value American life and to disregard the lives of others who suffer is wrong. I feel for every Vietnam veteran (and for veterans of all wars) but to censor the reality that is Vietnam today (i.e. socialist and in control of the types of war memorials built in their cities) accomplishes nothing except to make Americans more ignorant of the world they live in.

Great post!

 

[travelbug24]

I truly mean no disrespect but the wreckage of that plane was not the result of a B 52 bomber just innocently flying by. The B-52 was dropping bombs that kill. The North Vietnamese shot back. It's called war.

I appreciate our men in arms and am not criticizing----war is hell. But for us to only value American life and to disregard the lives of others who suffer is wrong. I feel for every Vietnam veteran (and for veterans of all wars) but to censor the reality that is Vietnam today (i.e. socialist and in control of the types of war memorials built in their cities) accomplishes nothing except to make Americans more ignorant of the world they live in.

Very well said.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I truly mean no disrespect but the wreckage of that plane was not the result of a B 52 bomber just innocently flying by. The B-52 was dropping bombs that kill. The North Vietnamese shot back. It's called war.

I appreciate our men in arms and am not criticizing----war is hell. But for us to only value American life and to disregard the lives of others who suffer is wrong. I feel for every Vietnam veteran (and for veterans of all wars) but to censor the reality that is Vietnam today (i.e. socialist and in control of the types of war memorials built in their cities) accomplishes nothing except to make Americans more ignorant of the world they live in.

Of course, it was war, but why highlight the wreckage and the pro socialist agenda on Amazing Race? I'm not saying, this point of view should be censored, but choose the proper venue. Seriously, there was nothing else in Vietnam worthy to spotlight? If so, why go there to film? Hmmmm...

 

[Mkrop]

Of course, it was war, but why highlight the wreckage and the pro socialist agenda on Amazing Race? I'm not saying, this point of view should be censored, but choose the proper venue. Seriously, there was nothing else in Vietnam worthy to spotlight? If so, why go there to film? Hmmmm...

I agree, I am sure there were tons of other wonderful cultural things they could have shown about Vietnam.

And free speech works both ways...AR had the right to show these things and hope their isnt negative feedback AND the people who found this in poor taste have a right to air their displeasure as well.

 

[gometros]

I truly mean no disrespect but the wreckage of that plane was not the result of a B 52 bomber just innocently flying by. The B-52 was dropping bombs that kill. The North Vietnamese shot back. It's called war.

I appreciate our men in arms and am not criticizing----war is hell. But for us to only value American life and to disregard the lives of others who suffer is wrong. I feel for every Vietnam veteran (and for veterans of all wars) but to censor the reality that is Vietnam today (i.e. socialist and in control of the types of war memorials built in their cities) accomplishes nothing except to make Americans more ignorant of the world they live in.

Again, this is an American show with an American audience and showing that segment was rubbing our faces in what was a horrific time. There were many lives lost and the after math of the war and the way the returning troops were treated was shameful. If they do an Amazing Race Vietnam, then I wouldn't complain. It's the audience you have to keep in mind.

And to be honest, for those who want to minimize this, they either didn't live through that era or don't know their history. Santayana said it best, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" .

 

[pat fan]

It was shown as a memorial, which to me means a place to remember our history and those who died. I'm not sure how you jump to a place that glorifies the death of our servicemen. Unless there are facts that I'm not aware of, in which case, I do understand, but it was presented as a memorial.

So then should they not visit Normandy?

I can't even comprehend the fact that you don't understand the difference. Then again, on a message board, some things should never be assumed. For one, I always assume people are my age. Crazy, I know! So, not to be impolite, but what is your age bracket? Maybe you are too young to appreciate the difference in those two sites you mentioned. The Normandy cemetery in France is a site honoring fallen American soldiers who came to help fight off the Nazi's and free Europe.

The B-52 Memorial in Vietnam is Vietnam's honoring of their army which shot down an American plane in which some soldiers died and others were taken as POW's. Hopefully that clears it up a bit as to why the sites are held in different regard when filmed for a light-hearted, entertainment value only television show. If this was a documentary on Vietnam's feelings of the war, then fine. But it wasn't.

 

[Sorsha]

The B-52 Memorial in Vietnam is Vietnam's honoring of their army which shot down an American plane in which some soldiers died and others were taken as POW's. Hopefully that clears it up a bit as to why the sites are held in different regard when filmed for a light-hearted, entertainment value only television show. If this was a documentary on Vietnam's feelings of the war, then fine. But it wasn't.

Now, here is MY opinion, and my age has nothing to do with it. The fact that I am a pacifist and a conscientious objector does, however.

Just because I happen to reside in America, does NOT mean I have to be so chest-thumping-ly, flag-waving-ly patriotic to assume that in all of the wars we have fought, we have been "in the right". Too often, my country goes running off to involve itself in some other country's conflicts for no good reason for that to be the truth. In the case of Vietnam, we were in their country, dropping bombs on their children and women and villages, and some of the atrocities perpetrated under the name of "democracy" and "freedom" were, and are to this day in other counties, absolutely horrifying. They had every right to defend themselves. They also have every right to build their own war memorials in whatever way they see fit. And, IMHO, we as Americans, can use the reminder every once in a while that war is not nice, war is not something to be glorified, and a darn lot of people on both side suffer.

Now, do I support the troops? Completely. They are doing their job, they didn't ask to be involved, and they have no choices. My DH served in the first Gulf War and got out immediately afterwards because he could no longer stomach the idea of innocent soldiers, on both sides, and civilians, being used as pawns of rival governments. And do vets get a bum deal when they return from combat and/or muster out? You betcha. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves as a country for not taking better care of them. But we ought to be even more ashamed of the fact that our government is willing to use them so carelessly without any thought to the loss of innocent life on either side.

So I, for one, am glad that CBS was able to show that memorial, and start this conversation throughout America. Wars suck, and they should not to be glorified while the ugly, bad parts are put aside and forgotten about in the name of patriotism. Look at all those flag-draped coffins we were never allowed to see, look at all the waste of life, and never forget.

*putting Pacifist soapbox back into the closet now*

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

Again, this is an American show with an American audience and showing that segment was rubbing our faces in what was a horrific time. There were many lives lost and the after math of the war and the way the returning troops were treated was shameful. If they do an Amazing Race Vietnam, then I wouldn't complain. It's the audience you have to keep in mind.

And to be honest, for those who want to minimize this, they either didn't live through that era or don't know their history. Santayana said it best, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" .

I know my history and have lived through more than you can possibly imagine (including having a husband die on active duty). I did not see any gloating, rubbing it in or glorifying the shameful way the veterans were treated upon their return.

I am not saying you have to like it or appreciate what you saw. I am just saying it is a reality and for CBS to show it was not disrespectful. I found it educational and treated it as such when explaining it to my daughter.

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

now, here is my opinion, and my age has nothing to do with it. The fact that i am a pacifist and a conscientious objector does, however.

Just because i happen to reside in americca, does not mean i have to be so chest-thumping-ly, flag-waving-ly patriotic to assume that in all of the wars we have fought, we have been "in the right". Too often, my country goes running off to involve itself in some other country's conflicts for no good reason for that to be the truth. In the case of vietnam, we were in their country, dropping bombs on their children and women and villages, and some of the atrocities perpetrated under the name of "democracy" and "freedom" were, and are to this day in other counties, absolutely horrifying. They had every right to defend themselves. They also have every right to build their own war memorials in whatever way they see fit. And, imho, we as americans, can use the reminder every once in a while that war is not nice, war is not something to be glorified, and a darn lot of people on both side suffer.

Now, do i support the troops? Completely. They are doing their job, they didn't ask to be involved, and they have no choices. My dh served in the first gulf war and got out immediately afterwards because he could no longer stomach the idea of innocent soldiers, on both sides, and civilians, being used as pawns of rival governments. And do vets get a bum deal when they return from combat and/or muster out? You betcha. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves as a country for not taking better care of them. But we ought to be even more ashamed of the fact that our government is willing to use them so carelessly without any thought to the loss of innocent life on either side.

So i, for one, am glad that cbs was able to show that memorial, and start this conversation throughout america. Wars suck, and they should not to be glorified while the ugly, bad parts are put aside and forgotten about in the name of patriotism. Look at all those flag-draped coffins we were never allowed to see, look at all the waste of life, and never forget.

*putting pacifist soapbox back into the closet now*

amen!!

 

[onelilspark]

I can't even comprehend the fact that you don't understand the difference. Then again, on a message board, some things should never be assumed. For one, I always assume people are my age. Crazy, I know! So, not to be impolite, but what is your age bracket? Maybe you are too young to appreciate the difference in those two sites you mentioned. The Normandy cemetery in France is a site honoring fallen American soldiers who came to help fight off the Nazi's and free Europe.

The B-52 Memorial in Vietnam is Vietnam's honoring of their army which shot down an American plane in which some soldiers died and others were taken as POW's. Hopefully that clears it up a bit as to why the sites are held in different regard when filmed for a light-hearted, entertainment value only television show. If this was a documentary on Vietnam's feelings of the war, then fine. But it wasn't.

I'm 28. But I don't believe this is an age thing. As I mentioned before, I'm the daughter of a Vet who served during the Vietnam era. I do understand why there would be some people who are sensitive to it and I'm glad CBS issued the apology. But I do not think it was intentional and to be crucifying CBS over the incident is overreacting.

My point was that there are many places around the World where Americans have died in battle. Those places did not incur just American losses, and I believe it is foolish to think we should expect other countries to build memorials to our fallen on their soil.

Part of what I love about the Race is an opportunity to see countries around the World. And I don't want to see the Americanized, cleaned-up versions of those countries. I want to see their history and their culture - even if it doesn't match what I think to be true (including a Communist song - it reminds me how glad I am I don't live there.)

And I spoke to my Dad last night. He is one of the most level-headed people I know. And I asked him if there was something I was missing - I'm not attempting to be ignorant, but I do not understand the outrage. He agreed with me that it's important that we remember that it is also their history.

I know my history and have lived through more than you can possibly imagine (including having a husband die on active duty). I did not see any gloating, rubbing it in or glorifying the shameful way the veterans were treated upon their return.

I am not saying you have to like it or appreciate what you saw. I am just saying it is a reality and for CBS to show it was not disrespectful. I found it educational and treated it as such when explaining it to my daughter.

Agreed.

Now, here is MY opinion, and my age has nothing to do with it. The fact that I am a pacifist and a conscientious objector does, however.

Just because I happen to reside in America, does NOT mean I have to be so chest-thumping-ly, flag-waving-ly patriotic to assume that in all of the wars we have fought, we have been "in the right". Too often, my country goes running off to involve itself in some other country's conflicts for no good reason for that to be the truth. In the case of Vietnam, we were in their country, dropping bombs on their children and women and villages, and some of the atrocities perpetrated under the name of "democracy" and "freedom" were, and are to this day in other counties, absolutely horrifying. They had every right to defend themselves. They also have every right to build their own war memorials in whatever way they see fit. And, IMHO, we as Americans, can use the reminder every once in a while that war is not nice, war is not something to be glorified, and a darn lot of people on both side suffer.

Now, do I support the troops? Completely. They are doing their job, they didn't ask to be involved, and they have no choices. My DH served in the first Gulf War and got out immediately afterwards because he could no longer stomach the idea of innocent soldiers, on both sides, and civilians, being used as pawns of rival governments. And do vets get a bum deal when they return from combat and/or muster out? You betcha. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves as a country for not taking better care of them. But we ought to be even more ashamed of the fact that our government is willing to use them so carelessly without any thought to the loss of innocent life on either side.

So I, for one, am glad that CBS was able to show that memorial, and start this conversation throughout America. Wars suck, and they should not to be glorified while the ugly, bad parts are put aside and forgotten about in the name of patriotism. Look at all those flag-draped coffins we were never allowed to see, look at all the waste of life, and never forget.

*putting Pacifist soapbox back into the closet now*

Agree with this as well. (Though I'm clearly less of a Pacifist )





And with that being said, clearly there is a difference of opinion on this subject. I will respectfully disagree that the intent was to promote Vietnam and disrespect our Vets. I am bowing out of this conversation since I feel it's getting a little bit political and I *like* discussing the Race, so I don't want this thread shut down.

 

[Sorsha]

And with that being said, clearly there is a difference of opinion on this subject. I will respectfully disagree that the intent was to promote Vietnam and disrespect our Vets. I am bowing out of this conversation since I feel it's getting a little bit political and I *like* discussing the Race, so I don't want this thread shut down.

Agree with you on this as well.

I will bow out of this part of the conversation, and say nothing more that isn't Race related.

Have a pleasant evening, all. I have to go see who gets bounced off of Dancing with the Stars.

 

[pat fan]

I believe it is foolish to think we should expect other countries to build memorials to our fallen on their soil.

Why would they? I know I never said they or any other country should and I don't recall hearing anyone else say that either
So I guess we all agree on that one!

 

[CaliBear]

Again, this is an American show with an American audience and showing that segment was rubbing our faces in what was a horrific time. There were many lives lost and the after math of the war and the way the returning troops were treated was shameful. If they do an Amazing Race Vietnam, then I wouldn't complain. It's the audience you have to keep in mind.

And to be honest, for those who want to minimize this, they either didn't live through that era or don't know their history. Santayana said it best, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" .

We are discussing the American version of the show, which is shown around the world and is very popular in Asia. I watched the episode here in Singapore on an AXN Asia, which airs in 16 Asian countries, including Vietnam. Twelve countries/regions aside from the U.S. have their own versions of The Amazing Race, also including Vietnam, though I don't believe the Vietnamese version has aired yet. The audience is not solely American. I'm not saying the show should cater to non-American audiences, but the show is on a much larger stage than you are stating.

I did not live through the era, but I do know my history. I just have a different point of view.

 

[gometros]

I know my history and have lived through more than you can possibly imagine (including having a husband die on active duty). I did not see any gloating, rubbing it in or glorifying the shameful way the veterans were treated upon their return.

I am not saying you have to like it or appreciate what you saw. I am just saying it is a reality and for CBS to show it was not disrespectful. I found it educational and treated it as such when explaining it to my daughter.

I am sorry for your loss and thank your husband for his service.

 

[gometros]

Agree with you on this as well.

I will bow out of this part of the conversation, and say nothing more that isn't Race related.

Have a pleasant evening, all. I have to go see who gets bounced off of Dancing with the Stars.

Agreed. Now where is Robinr with her menus of the week?

 

[emmabelle]

favorite part of this weeks show was when Pam or Winnie, (not sure which one said it but), "Chuck probably builds snares while brushing his teeth."

 

[TLSnell1981]

I have several friends and acquaintances, who fled Vietnam and don't care to ever return to their homeland. It was so horrible, they left EVERYTHING behind and risked their lives... They love the USA and are happy to be here. And, I will leave it at that.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

I just wanted to say "thank you" to those of you who expressed your opinions on the Vietnam segment's issues. I see valid points on both sides (I wasn't offended; but I sort of understand why some were offended; but I don't understand why some - not here - took their offense to such extremes) and I'm REALLY glad that nobody took the discussion down the path to thread oblivion.

Some questioned why the "yay-socialism!!" song was played at the end of the show.... TAR always has some sort of song/music during every episode and then they replay it at the end. They did it again with the bushmen village - the kids & women were singing a song during the snare/fire thing and that song was played during the ending credits. I actually got a chuckle out of that "yay-socialism" song.... "leading us towards the light".... haha REALLY? via what route, exactly? The south pole?!?! (since "by way of China" doesn't exactly fit in this instance considering the geography )


I'm still really disliking Team YouTube and I was so hoping that Team Orange would be out. Darned non-elimination legs!! It looks like Wynona's decisions to let Chuck handle all of the earlier roadblocks is coming back to bite her in the posterior region next week.