Amanda Knox- Guilty

[1957]

Did they interrogate her in Italian with no lawyer or translator present? I think I read that somewhere and that she may not have known enough Italian to understand the details of what they were asking.

She knew enough Italian to state her case in front of the judge and jury a couple of days ago. She actually THANKED her Defense team as well as the Prosecutors. It's been on the news.

 

[disykat]

She knew enough Italian to state her case in front of the judge and jury a couple of days ago. She actually THANKED her Defense team as well as the Prosecutors. It's been on the news.

She's been living in an Italian prison for two years. It'd be hard NOT to learn Italian under those circumstances. That doesn't tell us anything about how good her language skills were at the time of the murder.

 

[mom2rb]

If I spent two years in an Italian prison, I bet my Italian would be pretty good.

 

[1957]

Who EXPECTS anything of the sort? I never met a person, or heard of a person, who went to another country and EXPECTED them all to speak English. ??????



Anyway...regarding Amanda Knox and the way the case was handled...imagine that...we ugly Americans...thinking that there should be EVIDENCE in a case, that a jury shouldn't be allowed to read the accounts of the case outside the courtroom, that weeks or months shouldn't go by between court dates, that there should be higher standards for jurors and judges and prosecutors,and yes, even the press. JUST LIKE in America? Surely our judicial system isn't perfect, and I'm not saying they should be "just like us". But there is a ton of corruption in the Italian so-called judicial system...excuse the ugly Americans for thinking so. Obnoxious behavior isn't murder. Whether she actually MURDERED that girl or not, or took part in it in some way, I don't know, but the "evidence" is so tainted and so lost in the drama and fiasco of the trial in Italy, no one will ever know. That trial was not a FAIR trial...YES, OBVIOUSLY it's the way IT IS in Italy...OBVIOUSLY. But it was wrong, in and of itself, and without comparison to the American judicial system.

The end of my discussion. You've said what you've said FD, and no doubt you'll say plenty more, and I've had my say. But I'm not going to debate legalities and right and wrong with someone who so matter-of-factly stated on the DIS that your pet dog is your property and if you want to skin it alive, that's your "right".

Oh, I've been to more than a few European countries, and have witnessed more than a few "ugly" Americans "demanding" that English be spoken! (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Denmark. A couple of embarassing incidents in Amsterdam and Innsbruck) Fortunately, for us, most European citizens DO speak "English"! As well as other languages. It's unfortunate that most English-speaking Americans are satisfied with being mono-lingual. The American Judicial System does not necessarily set the "standard" for any other country. The American Judicial System was not wholly a USA invention, but took much of it from British Common Law. We're talking about 400 years, but Italy is talking about at least 1000 years. Or longer. But - you knew that. Right?

 

[1957]

Did they interrogate her in Italian with no lawyer or translator present? I think I read that somewhere and that she may not have known enough Italian to understand the details of what they were asking.

Well, I pretty much think that she knew the details of why she was in Italy in the first place. Does Italian law require an interrogation without a lawyer or a translator?

 

[1957]

If I spent two years in an Italian prison, I bet my Italian would be pretty good.

Really? Do you think that Amanda Knox knew absolutely no Italian before she arrived in that country, spent several months in school, and had an Italian boyfriend? Do you really think that?

 

[Poohbear123]

I honestly can't say if she's guilty or not. I don't get an impression either way. I think it's terrible what it's done to her family. I'm really sorry it ended this way.

I agree, I feel for her family and the dead girls family.

 

[java]

I don't know what to think about it all. Watching it all on Dateline right now. And they are painting the case that she is involved I think- the DNA in the bidet and the lying (I wasn't there and then "oops yes I was")

Now I was in an Italian Police station. My friend was mugged in Naples. And back then 20 years ago. It was a bit of a mess in there. We were happy to get out of there.

But really she sold herself up the river- the kisses with the boyfriend, giggling in court all made her seem not at all sad about the death of the roommate- does that make her a murderer- not here in America- but she was in Italy. So she has to abide by their laws. And apparantly it was enough for them.

 

[ogreenlee]

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/knox.family.reaction/

i just watched the video of her parents, and i feel really bad for them.

six people get pulled out of a hat of 50, and there is your jury. no vetting. can you imagine?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Oh, I've been to more than a few European countries, and have witnessed more than a few "ugly" Americans "demanding" that English be spoken! (France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Denmark. A couple of embarassing incidents in Amsterdam and Innsbruck) Fortunately, for us, most European citizens DO speak "English"! As well as other languages. It's unfortunate that most English-speaking Americans are satisfied with being mono-lingual. The American Judicial System does not necessarily set the "standard" for any other country. The American Judicial System was not wholly a USA invention, but took much of it from British Common Law. We're talking about 400 years, but Italy is talking about at least 1000 years. Or longer. But - you knew that. Right?

We traveled to Paris in 2004. My French is bad. My DH's french was non-existent. After a few days he gave up. He had no desire to try and that was fine. He would ask if somone spoke English and if they didn't he moved on.

He wasn't mean about it. But I was sort of embarrassed. But he really wasn't doing anything wrong.

There are some people though--who do travel and are shocked if someone doesn't speak English. That I do not get.

I also found it funny when we went to DLP. I figured, Disney is nice, they'll help me practice French. Not a chance. I said one word and they'd say "American?" and then would only speak English with me.


As for Amanda Knox. I'm not familiar with her case, but I do understand her behavior to be beyond simple school girl goofiness given the course of events. That just isn't what innocent people do. Sufficient for a conviction? Probably not, but something occurred in that courtroom that was sufficient enough to find her guilty. I have no idea what that was or if they have an appeals process or what.

 

[maddmike]

I just wish english could be spoken in America. Whenever someone comes here we are supposed to learn their language so we don't offend the poor soul that we probably just gave health insurance, a home, job and an education to for free.

 

[bimshire]

Just saw on CNN Anderson Cooper 360 where a former prosecutor said that many defendants get convicted on very little evidence right here in the USA and there is little or no outrage. That the only reason there is this much outrage is because Knox is pretty and it is in a foreign court. That we should spend more time being outraged by what happens in the aforemention situations in this country.

 

[mushumadness]

there seems to be alot of poor knox what about poor kercher, shes dead!
knox can appeal I assume, kercher cant

 

[FireDancer]

Who EXPECTS anything of the sort? I never met a person, or heard of a person, who went to another country and EXPECTED them all to speak English. ??????

...

Well, that second paragraph is exactly the kind of thing that makes some of the world hate us. Just because their system isn't ours doesn't make it corrupt. The skinning part is a complete misrepresentation of what I said on the thread you are eluding to. The discussion on skinning was in regards to animals which are raised for fur and I made sure I said whether one has a right to do it depends on the law. Don't try to spin it into my encouraging people to go home and skin Fido because that is disingenuous and you know it. My exact quote was

If the raising of an animal is legal and the method of skinning them is legal I have no problem with it. If it is illegal and you get caught you will serve whatever jail time is mandated or pay whatever fine is levied.

I stay within the bounds of the law and those who don't should pay the consequences. When in the U.S. obey U.S. laws and when in Italy obey Italian laws.

Back on topic. Yes, I am afraid that there are plenty of stories of people walking into establishments in foreign countries and asking in English if anyone speaks English and being upset that they don't. I'm sure a couple of Google searches will find plenty of entires about it in travel forums. When I was in Italy in 2008 on a couple of occasions I heard it first hand. If there is one phrase any American should learn when in Italy it is Parla Inglese? If they can't it is up to us to adapt, not to sigh in a huff and get belligerent which is what I saw. It is not the majority but it happens and that is the American that will be remembered.

My sympathy is for no one in this case other than the murdered girl. I don't think most people know her name, and that is really sad.

 

[disykat]

Really? Do you think that Amanda Knox knew absolutely no Italian before she arrived in that country, spent several months in school, and had an Italian boyfriend? Do you really think that?

Where did anyone say she knew absolutely no Italian at the time of the murder? What we are saying is that it is our understanding from what we've heard on tv is that she is now fluent, but was not at the time.

I don't know enough to know if she is guilty, but I do feel like there was not enough evidence, too much witness badgering, etc. for a guilty verdict in the US.

 

[FireDancer]

Where did anyone say she knew absolutely no Italian at the time of the murder? What we are saying is that it is our understanding from what we've heard on tv is that she is now fluent, but was not at the time.

I don't know enough to know if she is guilty, but I do feel like there was not enough evidence, too much witness badgering, etc. for a guilty verdict in the US.

She was a student there and I'm not sure how much she knew but the moment she was arrested there was only one phrase she needed to know:

"I will not answer any questions until I speak with a representative from the U.S. consulate".

Italy is a signor of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations. The U.S. Passport instructs all citizens to avoid violating foreign laws and if arrested demand to see a U.S. consul.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Amanda Knox will be appealing.

Amanda Knox's family appeal for funds to help her defence in Meredith Kercher murder trial

The family of Amanda Knox, the American student accused of killing her British flatmate Meredith Kercher, has launched an online appeal for funds to pay for her legal costs as she prepares to face trial for murder.

Lawyers' fees and the cost of travelling back and forth between their home in Seattle, in the Pacific north-west, and Perugia, the Umbrian hill town where Miss Knox is alleged to have stabbed to death the Briton a year ago, have put a heavy financial strain on her parents.

Curt Knox and Edda Mellas, who are separated but remain on good terms, have also had to foot the bill of staying in hotels and a farmhouse near Perugia so that they can regularly visit their daughter behind bars.

"She's our daughter and we'll do everything possible to help her, no matter the cost," Mrs Mellas said in an interview with an Italian magazine, Oggi ('Today').

"But if things go on for too long, we don't know what we'll do. We're not well-off people." They have hired a highly respected, Rome-based lawyer to fight the charges against their daughter and have had to pay for the services of one of Italy's top forensic experts.

The website, carries pictures of Amanda on her seventh birthday, posing in pigtails in a soccer kit and playing a guitar to a toddler.

It carries numerous testimonials from her family and friends, including one from her grandmother, who condemns "the ugly lies about Amanda and her tragic and unjust persecution in Italy." Her aunt, Janet Huff, writes: "I have always thought of her as one of the most genuinely caring and sensitive young people I know.

"The things that have been written about her in the tabloids are the polar opposite of who she really is." The family are appealing for support "while Amanda deals with this very scary time in her life," she adds. "This special place was created to share who the "real" Amanda Knox is and allow you to help support her," a message on the site says.

Miss Knox has been in prison since being arrested by Italian police a year ago on suspicion of having murdered the Leeds University student, with whom she shared a white-washed cottage just outside Perugia's medieval walls.

Prosecutors allege that Miss Kercher, 21, had her throat cut when a sex game involving Miss Knox, 21, her Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 24, and an unemployed drifter, Rudy Guede, turned violent.

Guede, 21, who was born in Ivory Coast but emigrated to Italy as a child, was last month found guilty of murder and sexual assault by a Perugia court and sentenced to 30 years in jail.

Miss Knox and her former lover go on trial in Perugia on Dec 4.

Miss Knox's mother described her daughter as loving, loyal and intelligent and says she earned her nickname "Foxy" because she was cunning on the soccer pitch.

She said Miss Knox finds prison life extremely hard but writes and reads a lot, studies Italian, French, German and Russian and hopes to become a translator once she is released.

Her portrayal in the Italian press as sexually precocious was wrong, her parents said.

"She was never a man-eater," her father told the magazine. "She had her first sexual encounter when she was in her final year of high school, whereas these days kids start at 13 or 14 years old. It's true she smoked marijuana from time to time, but she certainly wasn't a drug addict."

On the day that Miss Kercher was found dead, Miss Knox phoned home, telling her mother: "Something strange has happened, Mum. I don't really understand, I'm fine but something odd has happened."

"That was the beginning of our nightmare," Mrs Mellas said. "We'd like to say to the investigators in the case they should get to know our daughter and spend a bit of time with her. Then they would have no doubt about her innocence."

They have yet to be in touch with the Kercher family, of Coulsdon, Surrey.

"We're waiting for Amanda to be released and exonerated of all the charges, so she can then go to the family and express her sorrow. That day will come," Mrs Mellas said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...defence-in-Meredith-Kercher-murder-trial.html

______________________

I'm not sure if it was mentioned in the article above or if I read it elsewhere, (coffee hasn't kicked in) but her family said Amanda Knox was convicted because she was tried in the media and they convicted, "Foxy Knoxy", which wasn't a true portrayal of their daughter.

She was a student there and I'm not sure how much she knew but the moment she was arrested there was only one phrase she needed to know:

"I will not answer any questions until I speak with a representative from the U.S. consulate".

Italy is a signor of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations. The U.S. Passport instructs all citizens to avoid violating foreign laws and if arrested demand to see a U.S. consul.

It seems like the interrogation was very different from what goes on in the U.S., at least according to Amanda Knox. She said she was beaten, sleep deprived, etc.. If that is true, the phrase (shortened), "I will not speak without legal representation.", wouldn't have helped her, I imagine.

I have mixed thoughts and feelings about the Amanda Knox case. I do feel sorry for her and her family. The case is not clear and it's the not knowing if she was a part of the murder that makes the verdict and sentencing sad. What if she is innocent? That's a long sentence for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Then again there are the strange antics and conflicting accounts she gave. Just hard to say.

Of course I feel very sorry for Meredith Kercher. Her last moments must have been pure terror. I feel sorry for her family as well.

 

[OceanAnnie]

They already KNOW that the other guy committed the actual murder. Amanda apparently was found guilty of "masterminding" it.

I knew there was one guy that was convicted. I didn't know what his role was, that he actually committed the murder. I had heard some of the "mastermind" talk, but it doesn't make sense. Did the guy implicate her? I imagine he did, but still that's a bizarre scenario.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OceanAnnie--I'm responding to your post about the latest article:


1. Her family's plight is not my issue. While her daughter *could* be innocent, I don't believe that she is. Her behavior is not proof, but it doesn't leave me with good vibes. I find it disturbing when family's do this.

2. Of course her family finds her innocent--I can't think of many criminals here with an outspokent family who says with gusto that their family member is guilty, throw them to the wolves. Now, I can provide some leniancy that Amanda deserves an appeal as permitted by law and what not, but just b/c they say she is innocent does not make it so.

3. I was as pure as the driven snow until college--at least when it came to sex. My only partner was the man who is now my DH. However, it doesn't mean that it wasn't possible that I could have turned into a different individual. Ones sexual activity or lack there of in high school does not mean that it isn't possible for someone's behavior to turn and become promiscuous.

On that note, I'd be curious as to who provided statements on her character in regards to her party girl lifestyle. Without it--not much I can say on it other than kids change all the time and a person's character in a past life is irrelevant and often ignored by a jury--even in the US.

But outside of virginity--I drank underage and one night even drank myself to a dangerous stupor. A helicopter parent would have said--my friends were a horrible bad influence. She never drank a drop. I don't believe it. But my BAL and my very vivid memory that I chose to drank what I drank (though my friends "let" me drink, they didn't realize that I was double-shotting my drinks and how it was possible for me to get *that* intoxicated.)

After the worst hangover of my life and some other issues, I didn't make the same mistake again. But someone else could have.

My point--I was a very clean non-partier in high school and outside of the glamour of hitting the college party scene my first year of college, I wasn't really a partier in college either. Especially after that one night which was a back to school party sophomore year.

Just saying--good girls change and make stupid decisions. Overall, I was still a good girl. But at any given moment, I could have hid her forever.

I can see that in someone like Amanda Knox and can understand WHY her parents are in denial. But again, that isn't proof of innocence just like Amanda's silly inappropriate post mortem happy dance for her friend isn't proof of her guilt either.

4. Anyone will find prison life hard.

***My opinions are based on some readings in the Eyes For Lies blog. Due to foreign langauge barries, she has some difficulting in reading Amanda Knox with her full abilities, but she feels there is something off about her and I tend to respect her opinion. Though the lie detection expert did get fooled by the balloon boy hoax. In that case though--she believed they may be innocent when they weren't.

 

[eliza61]

i thought she was a goner from the beginning, whether guilty or not, whether we admit it or not we are still "the ugly american"

OT: Unfortunately, we do a lot to earn that reputation. So I'm sure it factored in. My father is from Trinidad and I gotta tell you when I visit family, some of my American kin make me cringe. To the previous poster, go to Paris in the summer and count how many Americans go over, get mad because the French have the nerve to speak French. Dont get me started on how many moms I've seen get an attitude when the restaurant doesn't have "to-go" sippy cups and please people, if you travel in Europe don't get mad when the currency is the Euro and that's what you get for change. Yes, we can be extremely boorish and ugly simply because we think every one should cater to our American sensibilities.

I did not follow the case so I can't speak about my impressions on Amanda, only to say that 1 young lady is dead and 1 young lady's life is destroyed and both families are in pain. That's a sad situation in any country.