Am I wrong? (School related) *Updated*

[RickinNYC]

You are correct. But what you are seeing a melding of liberal democractic policies into the education system. School is now used for social engineering as opposed to education.
I also am strongly opposed to ANY requirement for graduation that includes community service. Why should you have provide community service to get your HS diploma? What does that have to do with the three Rs?

How about making sure that a child can make change in their head and not depend on the cash registry to do so.

WHAT are you talking about?

What does liberal democratic policy have to do with anything that the OP was concerned with? Your post is just another attempt at trying to stir things up.

THIS liberal democrat thinks that required community service of any student for any reason is a waste of time, effort and energy. No student should ever "have" to perform community service whether for a better grade or worse yet, for graduation. Whenever that's the case, it's NO LONGER community service. It becomes a task.

My partner Joe is putting together a sock drive in the school he teaches that will benefit a homeless service organization. He has told his students that participation is strictly optional and that no extra credit will be provided. If anyone does either donate or help coordinate, they are doing so out of their own free will and out of their desire to help others. Granted, he is saying so in a much nicer way than I can ever manage.

Another teacher wanted in on the action (because the principal was duly impressed with the sock drive that Joe ran last year to great success) and wanted his own students to participate BUT added that he would give his students an extra five points on some final exam that he was giving.

Joe told him absolutely no way, no how was that going to be allowed. It's his show, his rules, no extra credit or a bump in grades EVER. He explained that he knows for a fact that some students in the grade are in fact homeless themselves, or simply come from underprivileged areas that even a pair of socks might not be in their budget. Why should they be negatively impacted if they can't participate?

And Joe is a liberal democrat.

Oh, and the organization that is going to be the beneficiary of any socks collected happens to be the one I work in. I'm the Director of the Volunteer Services department. Yep, I'm the one that, like you, hates the required community service component that students must complete to graduate.

Yep, I'm a liberal democrat.

Oh, and I voted for Obama.

And I happen to be very vocal in the non-profit field in NYC about this whole community service requirement. I hope to be a part of the change that gets rid of this. So much for your theory.

 

[Gina]

While I don't agree with this teacher, I wouldn't call the principal without speaking with the teacher first - it's more effective to follow the chain of command.

I would do that, except there's no way to call the teacher. All I have is her email, and I have emailed her twice in the past two weeks with a totally different question, and have yet to get a response.

And Clarabelle, I completely agree with you. What you said is my main point. To me, this sort of thing completely undermines what I'm trying to teach my child, that giving is its own reward. He spent most of the summer at our local Y, where they did all sorts of community stuff from helping pack rice at the food bank to planting flowers at the library to playing board games with the residents at a nearby assisted-living home. He loved doing it, and loved the feeling it gave him to help. Now teachers are trying to tell these kids that they should get a prize (better grades) for something that shouldn't be done with promise of a reward.

I'm going to call the principal right now, before lunch starts and chaos breaks loose over there.

 

[daughtersrus]

if you voted for Obama this type of school policy is what you should come to expect.

Can you please explain this?

Thanks!

 

[mjkacmom]

I would do that, except there's no way to call the teacher. All I have is her email, and I have emailed her twice in the past two weeks with a totally different question, and have yet to get a response.

.

I've called teachers before - I call the school, and leave a message for the teacher to call me back (I've never known a teacher to give out a phone number). I've found that some teachers are great with emails, and some never check them.

 

[Camicar]

I have been completely amazed at the outright bribery or rather, extortion that the high school teachers use. And it is not for charity. Nope, it's treats for the class or the teacher him/herself. Last year, almost all of dd's teachers announced that if the kids brought in treats they would get extra credit points or their lowest grade dropped.

I was actually incredulous until dd brought in treats to one teacher -- a bag of Reese's -- and I checked her grade and sure enough, her lowest test score had been dropped. Another time, she brought in brownies for the entire class on the "Designated Treat Day" -- Friday -- and also had her grade raised as a result.

I suppose some people will say it's harmless (including the school principal), but I disagree.

Cause if you voted for Obama this type of school policy is what you should come to expect.

And FTR -- this was before Obama was elected, so Bush was in office and our town is uber Republican. So let's see. What did the kids learn under the Republicans? Oh, I get it. They've learned under this administration that bribery works.

 

[Gina]

As a matter of fact, the principal did say it was harmless. Although she agreed with me that it wasn't the best idea, she said that she was sure the teacher had good intentions and that intention counts a lot to her. You know the saying, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? I think this is along those lines.

I do believe that the teacher had good intentions and was just trying to drum up support for the food drive, which is fine, but as I explained to the principal I feel the long-term damage to the kids far outweighs the good intentions here, and that this is the worst age for that.

We'll see what happens. I was very polite and respectful -- I do like this principal -- but I let her know in no uncertain terms that this was unacceptable and that I was not going to let it die. She promised that either she or the teacher would get back to me. Then, I'll decide what to do from there.

I think I'm even more upset over this because, as I said earlier, this isn't the first time. In a different class earlier this year, the teacher was going to give extra credit for good FUNDRAISING results. I was livid over that one.

And you know, I'm just trying to teach my son the correct values here... I don't appreciate teachers and schools undermining that.

 

[genius118899]

I had something similar happen many times, but I attended Catholic schools, where everyone payed tuition. I can see it being different at a public school.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

And FTR -- this was before Obama was elected, so Bush was in office and our town is uber Republican. So let's see. What did the kids learn under the Republicans? Oh, I get it. They've learned under this administration that bribery works.

Or get the kids to pass at all costs due to NCLB.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I could maybe see telling the kids that ANY food bank donation would result in an extra credit grade. My 7th grade DS gets extra credit for returning his progress report with a parent signature on it.

It would be better to also offer an alternate means of obtaining extra credit WITHOUT a food bank donation so those who can not afford it still have a chance for extra credit points. Then the kids can choose IF they want to have extra credit and they have 2 ways to go about it.

 

[dejr_8]

WHAT are you talking about?

What does liberal democratic policy have to do with anything that the OP was concerned with? Your post is just another attempt at trying to stir things up.

Not at all. It is MY opinion about how schools are being used for social engineering as opposed to education. And when you vote for liberal democrats you are going to get more of this. It ALWAYS surprises me when people complain about issues that are a direct result of who they voted for in the election - be it school board, state rep, gov, senator or president.

 

[Camicar]

And when you vote for liberal democrats you are going to get more of this.

As opposed to the NCLB, which is all about keeping national government out of local operations.

 

[RickinNYC]

Not at all. It is MY opinion about how schools are being used for social engineering as opposed to education. And when you vote for liberal democrats you are going to get more of this. It ALWAYS surprises me when people complain about issues that are a direct result of who they voted for in the election - be it school board, state rep, gov, senator or president.

Nope, not a single word of this post or your other one has a single thing to do with the topic at hand. Nice try, but not even close. You've done this before under your previous DIS name and it didn't work then. Why keep trying?

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

OP, I think that you dealt with the situation very well. You voiced your opinion clearly and passionately. Now, I think you have to let it go. The only thing left to do is to explain to your son why he won't be participating. It's a good learning opportuntiy.

I don't think this is an absolutely horrible project or anything. I just don't think it was thought out all that well. I can see why you would have concerns.

I do think though, unlike some PPs, that it is important for kids to learn more than the 3Rs in school. Education not just about filling their heads with knowledge. It's also about formation. There are plenty things to learn about this world and themselves beyond reading and mathematics. So, kudos to schools for actually trying to expose children to these real-world problems and empowering them to act.

Gina - I do have to ask. Who did you vote for yesterday - Obama or McCain. Cause if you voted for Obama this type of school policy is what you should come to expect.

This is completely irrelevant to the OP and what she is asking. There are plenty of political threads already. Why turn this into one when it clearly wasn't intended as such?

 

[dejr_8]

I have a question for you guys. My son is in 7th grade, and came home yesterday telling me that for one of his classes, if each student brings in 5lbs of food for the local food bank, the teacher will drop the lowest grade.

I am all for helping charities... and DS and I do that whenever we can, however we can. But I have a very big problem with tying academics to anything else. What if there was a family in his class who relies on a food bank themselves, who couldn't afford to donate food? So their child just has to suck up their bad grade? The message I think this whole thing sends is that you can buy good grades with good deeds, and I think that both should be expected already and independent of each other.

This isn't the first time this has come up this school year... and I'm just wondering what you guys think?


-gina-

Nope, not a single word of this post or your other one has a single thing to do with the topic at hand. Nice try, but not even close. You've done this before under your previous DIS name and it didn't work then. Why keep trying?

Sorry again but the OP raised the issue of combining social issues and academics. I just putting a finer point on the discussion by saying it is going to become a much bigger problem because of the political landscape. Who you vote for matters in everyday life and this is just one example. You may see it as off-topic while I see it as being dead center on target.

and way off topic... What previous DIS name? I've been here under this name since 2001.

 

[Gina]

Sorry again but the OP raised the issue of combining social issues and academics. I just putting a finer point on the discussion by saying it is going to become a much bigger problem because of the political landscape. Who you vote for matters in everyday life and this is just one example. You may see it as off-topic while I see it as being dead center on target.

No.... I raised the issue of tying rewards to grades, PERIOD. Not political in any way, shape or form, and I'm a firm believer in ME being in control of my life, not the government -- no matter which party or philosophy is living in the White House. And I am the guardian and guidance for my son, and am just trying to teach him values that I feel are important. Please, I'm begging you, don't put words in my mouth.

OP, I think that you dealt with the situation very well. You voiced your opinion clearly and passionately. Now, I think you have to let it go. The only thing left to do is to explain to your son why he won't be participating. It's a good learning opportuntiy.

Thank you for your very coherent thoughts. But I don't want my son to not participate, that's the thing. Not only do I not want to NOT donate food for a good cause, but he flaked out on an assignment and has a zero. My issue is that he is not learning to step up and ask for extra credit or something, try and right his own wrong... He will just have to bring in food and automatically have that zero dropped. What is he learning there? And how can I counter it?


-gina-

 

[C.Ann]

Definitely wrong..

 

[meeskamouska]

Gina - I do have to ask. Who did you vote for yesterday - Obama or McCain. Cause if you voted for Obama this type of school policy is what you should come to expect.

Really----because it would seem to me that the "No Child left Behind" has more to do with the failure in our schools. Kinda hard to place blame for the present on what *could* happen in the future.

 

[mamacatnv]

OP - I see your point and it makes sense. However, I am sure that the teacher didn't think that far ahead. Here is what I did in those situations because our community has a huge holiday food drive and it comes up every year. I would send in much more than the requested 5#'s and ask that the extra be credited to the kids who for whatever reason could not participate.

Yes, my DS regularly bribed his teachers and still managed to have good ACT and SAT scores and go off to a Univ. A dropped grade here or there is not going to make a catastophic difference, especially in 7th grade.

Take it for what it's purpose was - to better the community and let it go.

 

[meeskamouska]

Okay...probably shouldn't have taken the bait. The topic at hand---

I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

We did the SAME thing in my high school 15 years ago. It's basically extra-credit, not a grade on a test or anything. I really don't see the big deal. The kids in that class did in fact earn those "lowest" grades. There is nothing wrong with choosing not to participate in this extra credit assignment.

Quite honestly, I can't believe someone would make a stink about it- there's always got to be one person that ruins things for everyone! And the whole socialism thing is quite a stretch.