Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[maddhatir]

Whether you like them or not you better believe if this movements hangs around or gathers steam into next years election, people in power will take notice.

They are already "trying"
Citizens United Going Down?
Democrats Introduce Constitutional Amendment To Overturn Ruling
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/citizens-united-constitutional-amendment_n_1069596.html

I agree. Unless you get angry and start screaming- things will just stay the same. Look where the silence got us so far! We ALL need to take part. I hate when people say- "Why bother? Things won't change?" That is because YOU HAVE TO MAKE AN EFFORT!

There is going to be a General Strike in Oakland today and smaller strikes across the country.

Everyone can laugh all they want, blame all they want and you might not "get it"- but at least we are out there TRYING to make a change. We are making an effort. What have you done besides complain about it?

Protests are made to inconvenience people- it gets their attention.

 

[Muushka]

To start, we can go back to regulating banks and wall street, to ensure that the same thing doesn't happen again. A committee came up with a whole set of regulations that could prevent future problems. However the banks didnt like those regulations, and since they were allowed to donate millions to the politicians - guess what? We're still waiting.
We can't expect the banks to regulate themselves, they've proven that. We cant count on our politicians to regulate the banks, that's who supports them. And that is WHY there is an occupation. As I said before, it's important to get the message out that this is wrong - don't criticize the delivery, instead find a way to let your politicians know that you are aware and expecting them to do their job. If you don't agree with occupying, then find another way, but it's important that they get the message.

A committee came up with a whole set of regulations that could prevent future problems.

Yes, the Dodd Frank Act should have addressed many problems. But one of the major ones, Fannie Freddie,

A government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) is a financial services corporation created by the United States Congress. Their function is to enhance the flow of credit to targeted sectors of the economy and to make those segments of the capital market more efficient and transparent. The desired effect of the GSEs is to enhance the availability and reduce the cost of credit to the targeted borrowing sectors: agriculture, home finance and education. Congress created the first GSE in 1916 with the creation of the Farm Credit System; it initiated GSEs in the home finance segment of the economy with the creation of the Federal Home Loan Banks in 1932; and it targeted education when it chartered Sallie Mae in 1972 (although Congress allowed Sallie Mae to relinquish its government sponsorship and become a fully private institution via legislation in 1995). The residential mortgage borrowing segment is by far the largest of the borrowing segments in which the GSEs operate. GSEs hold or pool approximately $5 trillion worth of mortgages

was not addressed. This is the Fannie Freddie who brought us the wonderful mortgage meltdown (along with clueless home buyers and Wall Street knowing that they could make risky bets with the tax payers money).

Do you not see anything wrong with giving these 2 government agencies large bonuses on the tax payer's dime?

And then Fannie Freddie turns around and donates to political parties. What is wrong with this picture?
Reminds me of unions.

 

[Disney Dork in DFW]

Gosh, and I thought the closing of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride was controversial! This here thread is downright incisive!

 

[maddhatir]

To start, we can go back to regulating banks and wall street, to ensure that the same thing doesn't happen again. A committee came up with a whole set of regulations that could prevent future problems. However the banks didnt like those regulations, and since they were allowed to donate millions to the politicians - guess what? We're still waiting.
We can't expect the banks to regulate themselves, they've proven that. We cant count on our politicians to regulate the banks, that's who supports them. And that is WHY there is an occupation. As I said before, it's important to get the message out that this is wrong - don't criticize the delivery, instead find a way to let your politicians know that you are aware and expecting them to do their job. If you don't agree with occupying, then find another way, but it's important that they get the message.

Ohhh and Elizabeth Warren would have been a PERFECT watch dog for the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau!!!! She wanted to put a tight leash on the banks, mortgage companies, credit card companies etc to protect the consumers. but, they made SURE that the president did NOT appoint her!

But that's OK- Elizabeth has gone onto better things- I am hoping she will kick Scott Brown's butt in MA! I love that woman. Forget princesses, the Kardashians or Barbie- As a female, Elizabeth is MY role model.

Bernie Sanders is another person I admire.

 

[maddhatir]

Gosh, and I thought the closing of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride was controversial! This here thread is downright incisive!

That is the problem with this country. They have their priorities all screwed up

 

[OceanAnnie]

Govt meddling is what gave those CEO's bonuses. If they had not been bailed out, the companies would have filed for bankruptcy and been able to change their contracts. That's how it was supposed to work.

Capitalism didn't create this mess, govt did.

I agree. But it is tightly intertwined. I think if those in power didn't take the money (on both sides -- gov. & bus.) to begin with we would have a lot less problems. The country is morally bankrupt. Our leaders across the board are out for themselves and their interests. There is also a lot of ineptitude that has been built upon over years and years. You put those things together and there you have it.

Voting should help but it hasn't. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

What good is yelling in the streets going to do? Those that are corrupt will go to any length to make the ends justify the means. We have some deep problems that run the gamut.

I do think some legislation will help, but you can't legislate morality. We have to be careful in that arena.

Punishing the producers especially in this economy doesn't make sense. We need success!

It's a conundrum.

 

[Planogirl]

Aaaaand...this thread has now come full circle. It should end right here.......

Now you get it. You go out in the streets and scream about it until people listen! It won't happen over night- but it will make people open their eyes.

Obviously, NO ONE will do anything about it until you make them do something and sitting on your butt complaining does not work. If getting out in the streets is what it takes- so be it.

I guess that this is where I don't agree. I don't see how marching around does any more good than making calls or writing letters. I don't see how taking over parks is any better than simply staying home and meeting up for marches. That is where my disconnect is.

I also don't see that these companies will change their policies unless they are forced to like some have said. Marches don't force them to do anything. True that they bring attention to certain matters but they still aren't forced.

I would love a utopia where everyone is paid fairly and companies care about the environment and society. I personally think that we need unions to accomplish those ends but of course nowadays they tend to be as corrupt as the rest.

 

[eliza61]

I agree. But it is tightly intertwined. I think if those in power didn't take the money (on both sides -- gov. & bus.) to begin with we would have a lot less problems. The country is morally bankrupt. Our leaders across the board are out for themselves and their interests. There is also a lot of ineptitude that has been built upon over years and years. You put those things together and there you have it.

Voting should help but it hasn't. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

What good is yelling in the streets going to do? Those that are corrupt will go to any length to make the ends justify the means. We have some deep problems that run the gamut.

I do think some legislation will help, but you can't legislate morality. We have to be careful in that arena.

Punishing the producers especially in this economy doesn't make sense. We need success!

Well said, Voting doesn't help because the system itself is based on who ever has the biggest cash chest wins. so the corruption goes full circle. We've got a party campaigning now to get elected, a full 14-16 months before the election. So in order to do that and stay viable they spend more time getting donations then actually trying to come up with solutions and they way they get giant companies to give billions is to make promises that benefit the company but don't do a darn thing for the employee. They come up with catching slogans that every one can remember but don't have a wing or a prayer of actually accomplishing any thing.

I truly think that now unless we let the entire economy and congress collapse we will continue to ride this big cycle. I remember reading an article on why a real depression would actually be the solution.

Now, yelling in the streets may not be effective but it got folks attention and now there is talk about the group organizing and trying to be a part of the upcoming Iowa caucaus. Like I said, people can dismiss them as a bunch of lazy hippies if you want to, but they definitely are not stupid.


The last leg, is the "we" the people. You notice how every one agrees to cut the deficiet yet no one is willing to give up their interest? LOL.

So we're supposed to cut the budget but no we can't raise more income, we can't touch social security or medicaid, we can't touch military spending, we still have politicians who want to keep a military presence all over kingdom come, and we refuse to face the fact that we have a health care problem.
Oh and businesses keep promising if we only let them do whatever they want to do, they will definitely bring back jobs.

 

[Planogirl]

To start, we can go back to regulating banks and wall street, to ensure that the same thing doesn't happen again. A committee came up with a whole set of regulations that could prevent future problems. However the banks didnt like those regulations, and since they were allowed to donate millions to the politicians - guess what? We're still waiting.
We can't expect the banks to regulate themselves, they've proven that. We cant count on our politicians to regulate the banks, that's who supports them. And that is WHY there is an occupation. As I said before, it's important to get the message out that this is wrong - don't criticize the delivery, instead find a way to let your politicians know that you are aware and expecting them to do their job. If you don't agree with occupying, then find another way, but it's important that they get the message.

I think that you hit the nail on the head. We can't expect banks to govern themselves. Nor can we expect the oil companies and manufacturers and credit bureaus (why no mention of them?) and government agencies and so on to do this either. So the expectation is that government will feel pressured to regulate industry? It would be nice to see more marches on government if that's the case. I feel uncomfortable when our local group blockades a bank. The tellers and other workers there didn't cause this mess.

 

[mom2brina]

Well said, Voting doesn't help because the system itself is based on who ever has the biggest cash chest wins. so the corruption goes full circle. We've got a party campaigning now to get elected, a full 14-16 months before the election. So in order to do that and stay viable they spend more time getting donations then actually trying to come up with solutions and they way they get giant companies to give billions is to make promises that benefit the company but don't do a darn thing for the employee. They come up with catching slogans that every one can remember but don't have a wing or a prayer of actually accomplishing any thing.

I truly think that now unless we let the entire economy and congress collapse we will continue to ride this big cycle. I remember reading an article on why a real depression would actually be the solution.

Now, yelling in the streets may not be effective but it got folks attention and now there is talk about the group organizing and trying to be a part of the upcoming Iowa caucaus. Like I said, people can dismiss them as a bunch of lazy hippies if you want to, but they definitely are not stupid.


The last leg, is the "we" the people. You notice how every one agrees to cut the deficiet yet no one is willing to give up their interest? LOL.

So we're supposed to cut the budget but no we can't raise more income, we can't touch social security or medicaid, we can't touch military spending, we still have politicians who want to keep a military presence all over kingdom come, and we refuse to face the fact that we have a health care problem.
Oh and businesses keep promising if we only let them do whatever they want to do, they will definitely bring back jobs.

Agreed!

 

[eliza61]

I guess that this is where I don't agree. I don't see how marching around does any more good than making calls or writing letters. I don't see how taking over parks is any better than simply staying home and meeting up for marches. That is where my disconnect is.

I also don't see that these companies will change their policies unless they are forced to like some have said. Marches don't force them to do anything. True that they bring attention to certain matters but they still aren't forced.

I would love a utopia where everyone is paid fairly and companies care about the environment and society. I personally think that we need unions to accomplish those ends but of course nowadays they tend to be as corrupt as the rest.

Because generally until you get noticed and make people uncomfortable you will be ignored.
For example: if I rip you off, you can write me a letter until the cows come home, I can ignore you. If you show up in front of my business with a mega phone and tell passerbyers how you were screwed. well now, I might want just want to make time for you.

Why do you think the saying the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" came about. Think about what you see in stores. All stores have some type of return policy but most consumers know t hat if they come back to the store and hoot and holler, 9/10 the manager will throw out the policy and give them what they want. Heck, we see it here with people screaming in disneyworld. Yes it may be tacky but it gets results.

I know I bring up my experiences a lot but that's because once again it's history. Do you honestly think Jim Crow and desegregation would have happen from "writing" letters? Hell, most of it require national guardsmen forcing desegragation.

One march by itself, no it might not do any thing but reportedly now the marchers are organizing to start attending the state caucauses and primaries. Here in Philly, OWS has voter registrations and the marches on saturdays definitely cause the city to lose money. So now you've got city officials willing to listen to them because money talks.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Well said, Voting doesn't help because the system itself is based on who ever has the biggest cash chest wins. so the corruption goes full circle. We've got a party campaigning now to get elected, a full 14-16 months before the election. So in order to do that and stay viable they spend more time getting donations then actually trying to come up with solutions and they way they get giant companies to give billions is to make promises that benefit the company but don't do a darn thing for the employee. They come up with catching slogans that every one can remember but don't have a wing or a prayer of actually accomplishing any thing.

I truly think that now unless we let the entire economy and congress collapse we will continue to ride this big cycle. I remember reading an article on why a real depression would actually be the solution.

Now, yelling in the streets may not be effective but it got folks attention and now there is talk about the group organizing and trying to be a part of the upcoming Iowa caucaus. Like I said, people can dismiss them as a bunch of lazy hippies if you want to, but they definitely are not stupid.


The last leg, is the "we" the people. You notice how every one agrees to cut the deficiet yet no one is willing to give up their interest? LOL.

So we're supposed to cut the budget but no we can't raise more income, we can't touch social security or medicaid, we can't touch military spending, we still have politicians who want to keep a military presence all over kingdom come, and we refuse to face the fact that we have a health care problem.
Oh and businesses keep promising if we only let them do whatever they want to do, they will definitely bring back jobs.

Which comes first the chicken or the egg?

Not only is balancing the budget a no-go, so is reigning in the spending another no-go. Are you willing to hand over more money to be misspent?
Nothing seems to be working.

 

[Planogirl]

Oh and businesses keep promising if we only let them do whatever they want to do, they will definitely bring back jobs.

That is the point that bothers me the worst. They get bailouts and everything else going their way and it will supposedly all trickle down to jobs. So where are these jobs then? Way too many people are still unemployed or underemployed.

I blame outsourcing for the most part. Companies shouldn't get a thing as long as they outsource.

 

[Planogirl]

Because generally until you get noticed and make people uncomfortable you will be ignored.
For example: if I rip you off, you can write me a letter until the cows come home, I can ignore you. If you show up in front of my business with a mega phone and tell passerbyers how you were screwed. well now, I might want just want to make time for you.

Why do you think the saying the "squeaky wheel gets the oil" came about. Think about what you see in stores. All stores have some type of return policy but most consumers know t hat if they come back to the store and hoot and holler, 9/10 the manager will throw out the policy and give them what they want. Heck, we see it here with people screaming in disneyworld. Yes it may be tacky but it gets results.

I know I bring up my experiences a lot but that's because once again it's history. Do you honestly think Jim Crow and desegragation would have happen from "writing" letters? Hell, most of it require national guardsmen forcing desegragation.

One march by itself, no it might not do any thing but reportedly now the marchers are organizing to start attending the state caucauses and primaries. Here in Philly, OWS has voter registrations and the marches on saturdays definitely cause the city to lose money. So now you've got city officials willing to listen to them because money talks.

You mention taking part in Civil Rights marches a lot. I must admit that I thought that you would too young to be a part of that. That aside, I don't see that as the same as this at all. People have the fundamental right to be treated the same as anyone else. This is a case where people in general are poorly treated but the causes are so complex and intertwined that it's hard to see where the root of the problem is.

Either way, it would be gratifying to see representation at caucauses and primaries. I see that as way more valuable than some encampments and marches.

 

[Disneyliscious]

I haven't read the whole tread and I can honestly say I don't completely understand OW's message either, BUT....I am glad they are there and wish I could be as well. I think they are there as a voice saying "we are fed up". What will it accomplish? Ask Bank of America. The actions of people can cahnge corporate policies. Sure, those camping out are not costing any corportation any money but I do believe a unified cause and purpose will be established from this group which will make a difference.

The person who made the photo on the first page of this thread is clueless. Absolutely clueless. No one is complaining about Sharpie or Clairol. No one complained about buying a $600 I-phone when they had jobs to buy them. The complaint is greedy giants like BoA who laid off 40k people to "save money" and then decided to charge its customers $5 a month to use their own money.....all because they wanted to line their pockets with even more money in an already record breaking quarter of profits. THAT is the problem. 40k People now dont have money to live on because of no other reason than corporate greed. That is just one example. People are tired of it and they will be heard.

 

[Acklander]

Either way, it would be gratifying to see representation at caucauses and primaries. I see that as way more valuable than some encampments and marches.

Wouldn't that be nice? Did you see what happened during the last election when people wanted to exercise their right to protest? They were issued permits several miles away from where the events were going to take place. How does that help? It has come down to, unless you're a billionaire carrying a big check, you're not getting a meeting. End of discussion. As an American, I don't accept this, and I shouldn't have to.

 

[Planogirl]

I haven't read the whole tread and I can honestly say I don't completely understand OW's message either, BUT....I am glad they are there and wish I could be as well. I think they are there as a voice saying "we are fed up". What will it accomplish? Ask Bank of America. The actions of people can cahnge corporate policies. Sure, those camping out are not costing any corportation any money but I do believe a unified cause and purpose will be established from this group which will make a difference.

The person who made the photo on the first page of this thread is clueless. Absolutely clueless. No one is complaining about Sharpie or Clairol. No one complained about buying a $600 I-phone when they had jobs to buy them. The complaint is greedy giants like BoA who laid off 40k people to "save money" and then decided to charge its customers $5 a month to use their own money.....all because they wanted to line their pockets with even more money in an already record breaking quarter of profits. THAT is the problem. 40k People now dont have money to live on because of no other reason than corporate greed. That is just one example. People are tired of it and they will be heard.

It isn't just the banks that have laid people off. Many companies have and some of those companies pictured have certainly outsourced. We can't just fuss at the banks because that's like having several cuts and only bandaging one.

Even my own industry, credit reporting, has outsourced. American credit reports are being handled in other nations now! The problems run much deeper than just BoA wanting a $5 fee to supposedly offset profits lost from new regulations.

 

[Planogirl]

Wouldn't that be nice? Did you see what happened during the last election when people wanted to exercise their right to protest? They were issued permits several miles away from where the events were going to take place. How does that help? It has come down to, unless you're a billionaire carrying a big check, you're not getting a meeting. End of discussion. As an American, I don't accept this, and I shouldn't have to.

I think that it might work better if the cause had spokespersons. You can't expect a meeting when you show up as a mob.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think that it might work better if the cause had spokespersons. You can't expect a meeting when you show up as a mob.

I think you're right. That's also how the lobbyist were born (not saying it would happen in this case).

 

[jm-mom]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Additionally, I wonder if any of these people ever got a job from a poor man. Oh wait a minute...they're not interested in working. Only criticizing those who do while trying to figure out a way to have those who work pay for their Starbucks. Give me a break. Quit whining, get a job and quit sponging off the rest of us. I'm so sick and tired of this entitlement mentality. If they are so interested in a nanny state, find a way to move to England or Cuba or the like and leave the rest of us who want to be in control of our lives and work to achieve our dreams alone. They are an embarrassment to our great country.

AGREE AGREE AGREE!!!! Well said!