Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[mikkiwikki]

Isn't that what you just did?

NOT ME? where did I dismiss my opponent?

Im not dividing my FELLOW MAN!

Thats for the media.. to try...I dont buy it. Do you?

 

[OceanAnnie]

We the people apparently are too tied up in our tiny very tiny miniscule piece of the pie. The thing that kills me is how the media is potraying OWS as a bunch of hippies. DRUG using violent hippies. Perfect psychological ploy. Dismiss your opponent, paint them as inferior! That's what is happening all over the news. i happen to know there are many employed people marching with ows...Americans who are fearful with corruption in our country.

WE nEED to unite and stop dividing and labeling ourselves. They are running away with our country...and we are busy INFIGHTING

YES I have READ THE ONE paid lemmings' hand written note...very very interesting.
Where are all the other notes? yea for this one guy super dee duper. lest we forget the rest?

NOT ME? where did I dismiss my opponent?

Im not dividing my FELLOW MAN!

Thats for the media.. to try...I dont buy it. Do you?

It must not be killing you too much, for you to do the same thing.

 

[mikkiwikki]

As for the name calling comment I was trying to keep the thread from being closed down. We are supposed to be civil. That is all.

Basicall what I think it boils down to is there is a problem that needs to be fixed. The question is who is responsible to fix it? Is it the people's responsibility or the governments? Many people are saying the governemnt has to create laws, step in and "fix it". Others say we need to vote with our dollars until it hurts the companies. Lots of good discussion.

Agree - and also agree there are many fine thinkers on this board...

I also believe Wallst. and/or government will *never* ever step up
RED OR BLUE

and fix the problem until the PEOPLE united step up and say NO MORE! No more sending jobs overseas, no more spending more money on setting up foreign government roads and buildings - vastly exceeding expenditures here in the states! NO more decimating our public school systems while other countries surpass us in excellence year after year..

Until each and everyone of us gets mad..and not just apathetic and pacified...will we progress to become what this country was truly meant to be. stop caring about what LOHAN or bieber is doing...the american dream is on fire and its up to us to save it..

sigh...

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." ~Thomas Jefferson

When the bankers OWN our government...and they do...given that you need to raise MILLIONS to be president...there is a problem people...REALLY? isnt it obvious?

 

[mikkiwikki]

It must not be killing you too much, for you to do the same thing.

I beg your pardon? do you have a question?
Who am I dismissing? please elucidate?
the spitballs from the sidelines solve nothing..whats your point?

WAIT go back and read my previous post. These are inescapable facts. Housing prices have skyrocketed.

How is it that a typical family in 1970s only needed ONE working parent. Wait think..pause

that is not possible today.

HOW IS IT that our home that I lived in for 20 years..was the cost of my fathers annual income

The average american home NOW is 4-8 times their annual income.

facts.

 

[maddhatir]

Rock on brother --- whoops maybe wont use that 60s terminology how about
ROCK ON PATRIOT!

\m/

 

[mikkiwikki]

That's the problem. right now individual rights have already been tossed out. The laws are written exclusively to benefit a certain economic group of people.

There is no way statistically possible for one group to have a 237% growth in their income (between 1970-2005) without some type of outside influence while the rest of the population has at most a 10% growth. NO way.

A new report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found the gap between the nation’s richest Americans and those within the middle class widened significantly over a period of 28 years. According to the report, between 1979 and 2007, the average income for the nation’s top 1 percent nearly tripled, while the household income of middle class Americans grew by less than 40 percent.

Top 1 Percent of Rich Show Income Grow of 275 PercentThe CBO report revealed staggering numbers this week as it showcased just how much the gap has widened between the top 1 percent of the population and the rest of the country in terms of wealth.

The highest-paid Americans saw their average inflation-adjusted household income grow by 275 percent over the 28-year period. In contrast, the remainder of the population’s richest one-fifth saw their incomes grow by about 65 percent.

As for middle class earners, incomes grew only 40 percent. Low-income Americans suffered the most, seeing a very slight increase of 18 percent between 1979 and 2007, according to the CBO study based on IRS and Census data.

This is from the CBO. the people who supposedly track t his stuff.
those influences whether in the form of tax laws that favor one group, business laws that favor one group or banking laws that favor one group are definitely an infringement.

I have a 401K and I have no problem with Merril lynch doing its business. I do have a very real problem with merril lynch paying a bazillon dollars for lobbyist to get special tax favors and deregulation laws passed.

I have no problems with big businesses capitalizing on markets, I have a huge problem with big business pouring billons of dollars into congress to advanced globalization which has done nothing but shipped jobs elsewhere.

I do not want some sort of artifical wealth redistribution but please stop pretending that the playing field is level.

a simple - thank you for this post

 

[mikkiwikki]

I think its more like the frustrated unemployed blowing off steam. But it is also making people think, and what should be happening going into an election year. It is also a glimpse of what is to come, because it is not going to get much better for a very long time, don't care what the financial channels say on TV all artificial BS.

well there might be some frustrated unemployed, but disagree that is the majority. I agree that its not going to get better for a very long time.

 

[CowboyCO]

I grew up believing and being taught that you do not covet other's possessions or money.

I put myself through college, went to an inexpensive state university, and have worked my whole life. I got laid off this year and worked a bunch of spot jobs until I found something else. Not ideal, but I am soooo grateful for the opportunity to work for an evil publicly-traded company.

I have a good friend from college who is now very successful. 7 figures successful. He has collector cars, fine art and a much bigger home than I'll ever have. And I am happy for him. I don't think he should pay a greater share/percentage of his income than I do. That wouldn't be fair. He gives generously to his church and is actively involved with charities that support causes he and his family support.

Wall Street isn't the problem - DC is the problem.

 

[Planogirl]

Funny. I know 3 employed people and 2 retired people (one happens to be disabled) who march too, in Philly. Who? Me. DH. FIL. mom and MIL.

I have never felt more proud to be an American than when I am marching.

I have my own way of dealing with things and I'm a proud American too. Isn't it great that we all have the freedom to express our feelings (or not) in the way we wish?

 

[OceanAnnie]

I beg your pardon? do you have a question?
Who am I dismissing? please elucidate?
the spitballs from the sidelines solve nothing..whats your point?

WAIT go back and read my previous post. These are inescapable facts. Housing prices have skyrocketed.

How is it that a typical family in 1970s only needed ONE working parent. Wait think..pause

that is not possible today.

HOW IS IT that our home that I lived in for 20 years..was the cost of my fathers annual income

The average american home NOW is 4-8 times their annual income.

facts.

No. Not spitballs from the sidelines. I have been in the discussion. Not with you particularly. I read your post and commented. That's how the forum works. I was quite clear. But you didn't comment on "what" I had to say. You painted around it with facts that had nothing to do with the language you chose, and I pointed out. That was the issue, your language.

I didn't mention anything about your facts. I stated you used the same "tactic" you accused of the media of doing. There is a fact for you. Calling someone a "lemming" that doesn't share your view is dismissing your opponent. You know, the very thing that is "killing" you with OWS, the dismissing thing? Funny how that works both ways. Deflect all you wish. But it is what it is.

Please tell me I'm wrong again because you continue to prove my point. Your language is dismissive to me too. You just want to roll right over what I have to say. It doesn't matter to you how you say something because you are "right". That's the way a lot of people view OWS. You guys come across as though you are right about everything and the ends justify the means. Well, guess what, it doesn't. The same courtesies and laws apply to you that you want everyone else to adhere to.

Funny, the ends justifying the means is exactly what got us where we are now. Using it to get us out will only make matters worse IMO.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I grew up believing and being taught that you do not covet other's possessions or money.

I put myself through college, went to an inexpensive state university, and have worked my whole life. I got laid off this year and worked a bunch of spot jobs until I found something else. Not ideal, but I am soooo grateful for the opportunity to work for an evil publicly-traded company.

I have a good friend from college who is now very successful. 7 figures successful. He has collector cars, fine art and a much bigger home than I'll ever have. And I am happy for him. I don't think he should pay a greater share/percentage of his income than I do. That wouldn't be fair. He gives generously to his church and is actively involved with charities that support causes he and his family support.

Wall Street isn't the problem - DC is the problem.

Exactly.

 

[disneychic2]

http://www.daveramsey.com/article/dear-occupy-wall-street/lifeandmoney_economy/

This was awesome!

 

[eliza61]

This was awesome!

That was an interesting letter. Many people have complained that the movement is scattered with no clear objectives. I think if the movement sustains itself it will coalensce into some thing more tangible.

I always laugh because once again that was the same grip people had about civil rights. You are probably pretty young so you remember civil rights as being organized and with a great leader. I was there and I can tell you for a lead pipe fact that in the early 60's we were absolutely just like OWS.
We weren't organgized, we weren't together. Hell, half the time we couldn't agree to be non violent (believe me there were many people who wanted to start a war and had just as many guns to do it).

 

[eliza61]

I grew up believing and being taught that you do not covet other's possessions or money.

I put myself through college, went to an inexpensive state university, and have worked my whole life. I got laid off this year and worked a bunch of spot jobs until I found something else. Not ideal, but I am soooo grateful for the opportunity to work for an evil publicly-traded company.

I have a good friend from college who is now very successful. 7 figures successful. He has collector cars, fine art and a much bigger home than I'll ever have. And I am happy for him. I don't think he should pay a greater share/percentage of his income than I do. That wouldn't be fair. He gives generously to his church and is actively involved with charities that support causes he and his family support.

Wall Street isn't the problem - DC is the problem.

Why is it "either" "or"? What you can't want both congress and corporations to clean up their acts? How about we get them out of each others bed for starters. Are you telling me you believe that big banks have no influence in congress and with banking regulations?

People say "complain" to congress like the two are mutally exclusive.

Why just because you work for a big corporation are you not allowed to speak up against any injustice you feel? I work for a major fortune 50 chemical company. You know what, when they raid our pension plan, I damn well speak up and protest.

I don't get this mentality that just because some one employees you, you supposed to take any crappy treatment they give you.
I am a successfuly high6 low 7 figure worker like your friend and sorry you do not get to treat me anyway simply because you employe me and you'd better believe when my company begins acting unethically, I am always front and center.

I am grateful for my opportunity but I am also not going to pretend that my income does not have perks. I pay probably less % of taxes than the average middle class person. I do it legally thanks to the hundreds of write offs and tax breaks available to me. Last year the average million dollar earning in my company paid an average 15.7% taxes. fifteen %.

dont get me wrong, I have no desire to give uncle sam more of my money but sorry the rich and major tax corporations are not living under some heavy tax rate. there are very few that are in the 35 percentile. There is a reason that the income of the wealth grew at a staggering 200% over the last 25-30 years.

 

[robinb]

The only reason people cannot "get" OWS is b/c they didn't know what was really going on beforehand. I mean really going on.

You cannot get your information from a 2 second story on the nightly news. You need to dig deep for the corruption that ruined this country. You need the internet to get that kind of news. I think MSNBC does a good job- I don't watch MSNBC news- I watch shows like Ed Schultz and Rachel Maddow. I like Keith Olbermann. I also love to hear Van Jones speak. A LOT of OWS think all of those people are bs. They think both sides are corrupt. I lean more to the left- I am comfortable there.

You have to start somewhere- get your info and then research it for yourself. But, as I said- if you just watch the news. You won't "get" anything.

I'm all for doing some digging, but the names you listed are all extremists. I've watched their shows and read some of their stuff. Way, way out. Sometimes quite nasty.

I don't consider them extremists or "Way, way out" but I can understand that someone who watches and reads Glenn Beck might. They are really no more extreme than Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reiley, Rush Limbaugh, or Greta Van Susteren. They just have a different viewpoint.

 

[ilovemk76]

Why is it "either" "or"? What you can't want both congress and corporations to clean up their acts? How about we get them out of each others bed for starters. Are you telling me you believe that big banks have no influence in congress and with banking regulations?

People say "complain" to congress like the two are mutally exclusive.

Why just because you work for a big corporation are you not allowed to speak up against any injustice you feel? I work for a major fortune 50 chemical company. You know what, when they raid our pension plan, I damn well speak up and protest.

I don't get this mentality that just because some one employees you, you supposed to take any crappy treatment they give you.
I am a successfuly high6 low 7 figure worker like your friend and sorry you do not get to treat me anyway simply because you employe me and you'd better believe when my company begins acting unethically, I am always front and center.

I am grateful for my opportunity but I am also not going to pretend that my income does not have perks. I pay probably less % of taxes than the average middle class person. I do it legally thanks to the hundreds of write offs and tax breaks available to me. Last year the average million dollar earning in my company paid an average 15.7% taxes. fifteen %.

dont get me wrong, I have no desire to give uncle sam more of my money but sorry the rich and major tax corporations are not living under some heavy tax rate. there are very few that are in the 35 percentile. There is a reason that the income of the wealth grew at a staggering 200% over the last 25-30 years.

If you think that it is not fair that middle class people pay more percentage wise then you do then DON'T take those hundreds of tax write-off. You can pay more but you really are more interested in only doing it if ALL the others do too. You want it to be fair before you will pay more.

 

[58cognac]

Why is it "either" "or"? What you can't want both congress and corporations to clean up their acts? How about we get them out of each others bed for starters. Are you telling me you believe that big banks have no influence in congress and with banking regulations?

People say "complain" to congress like the two are mutally exclusive.

Why just because you work for a big corporation are you not allowed to speak up against any injustice you feel? I work for a major fortune 50 chemical company. You know what, when they raid our pension plan, I damn well speak up and protest.

I don't get this mentality that just because some one employees you, you supposed to take any crappy treatment they give you.
I am a successfuly high6 low 7 figure worker like your friend and sorry you do not get to treat me anyway simply because you employe me and you'd better believe when my company begins acting unethically, I am always front and center.

I am grateful for my opportunity but I am also not going to pretend that my income does not have perks. I pay probably less % of taxes than the average middle class person. I do it legally thanks to the hundreds of write offs and tax breaks available to me. Last year the average million dollar earning in my company paid an average 15.7% taxes. fifteen %.

dont get me wrong, I have no desire to give uncle sam more of my money but sorry the rich and major tax corporations are not living under some heavy tax rate. there are very few that are in the 35 percentile. There is a reason that the income of the wealth grew at a staggering 200% over the last 25-30 years.

That's why I can't figure out why people want to demonize the Tea Party and what they want to accomplish. Or the GOOOH (they might not be as well known...... http://goooh.com/Learn.aspx). If there were those in the 60's that wanted a war and had the weapons for it, why would we be surprised of the fringe in any movement today that has the few that want to do more than practice their constitutional rights? But some want to paint the entire Tea Party Movement as nuts based on their belief in their 2nd Amendment rights. THe whole issue is that the politicians in place today cannot say no to the money. If their money had zero effect on policy because leaders in D.C. wouldn't let it, would corporations still pile it on them? Vote them out and put someone in who can resist the status quo in BOTH parties.

 

[BubMunkeyBles]

Why is it "either" "or"? What you can't want both congress and corporations to clean up their acts? How about we get them out of each others bed for starters. Are you telling me you believe that big banks have no influence in congress and with banking regulations?

People say "complain" to congress like the two are mutally exclusive.

Why just because you work for a big corporation are you not allowed to speak up against any injustice you feel? I work for a major fortune 50 chemical company. You know what, when they raid our pension plan, I damn well speak up and protest.

I don't get this mentality that just because some one employees you, you supposed to take any crappy treatment they give you.
I am a successfuly high6 low 7 figure worker like your friend and sorry you do not get to treat me anyway simply because you employe me and you'd better believe when my company begins acting unethically, I am always front and center.

I am grateful for my opportunity but I am also not going to pretend that my income does not have perks. I pay probably less % of taxes than the average middle class person. I do it legally thanks to the hundreds of write offs and tax breaks available to me. Last year the average million dollar earning in my company paid an average 15.7% taxes. fifteen %.

dont get me wrong, I have no desire to give uncle sam more of my money but sorry the rich and major tax corporations are not living under some heavy tax rate. there are very few that are in the 35 percentile. There is a reason that the income of the wealth grew at a staggering 200% over the last 25-30 years.

I think I love you. Just saying.

I'm in the 47% that pays no taxes, but could definitely afford to (it just comes back in a tax return which is like "magic money", and yes I think there are people who can't afford to pay taxes because they make so little in what people call this "great" country). For us its not as easy as just not taking deductions since its pretty automatic for us though. No one WANTS to pay more, doesn't mean we shouldn't though. I'm all for paying our 25% (which is already taken out of our paychecks)... but yes, I think others should too.

Of course people won't pay more until they have to! Doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done or that they don't think it should be done.

 

[eliza61]

That's why I can't figure out why people want to demonize the Tea Party and what they want to accomplish. Or the GOOOH (they might not be as well known...... http://goooh.com/Learn.aspx). If there were those in the 60's that wanted .

Very true.

I think with any movement that involves change when they initially come onto the scene you get your wackadoodles that pop out of the wood works. I definitely didn't get the tea party until the rehetoric died down, especially when they first came out and the other fringes were not booted out.

One of the problems we have IMO is that every one is looking for that quick fix, smoking gun solution. and that is never going to happen. We can't fix the economy on cutting spending only. It really is like when a family is in debt, you have to do EVERY THING. You have to cut spending AND bring in new revenue. one without the other is not going to work.

It is totally possible to agree with many different fractions. I do. Like I said previously. Its not a "either" "or" propositions.

I do think we need to start living within our budget and I also think we definitely need to kick big business out of politics. We do need ot cut our spending but we can cut spending to the bare bottom and you still cannot sustain this country if 30% of the people are not paying or are underpaying.

I don't mind paying more in taxes but I want my tax dollars spent wisely and I think everyone from the very poor to the very rich should pay some thing toward the running of this country.

Maybe I'll start my own movement of "middle of the road" solutions. where every thing is on the table and no one is exempt. LOL

 

[ilovemk76]

Very true.

I think with any movement that involves change when they initially come onto the scene you get your wackadoodles that pop out of the wood works. I definitely didn't get the tea party until the rehetoric died down, especially when they first came out and the other fringes were not booted out.

One of the problems we have IMO is that every one is looking for that quick fix, smoking gun solution. and that is never going to happen. We can't fix the economy on cutting spending only. It really is like when a family is in debt, you have to do EVERY THING. You have to cut spending AND bring in new revenue. one without the other is not going to work.

It is totally possible to agree with many different fractions. I do. Like I said previously. Its not a "either" "or" propositions.

I do think we need to start living within our budget and I also think we definitely need to kick big business out of politics. We do need ot cut our spending but we can cut spending to the bare bottom and you still cannot sustain this country if 30% of the people are not paying or are underpaying.

I don't mind paying more in taxes but I want my tax dollars spent wisely and I think everyone from the very poor to the very rich should pay some thing toward the running of this country.

Maybe I'll start my own movement of "middle of the road" solutions. where every thing is on the table and no one is exempt. LOL

I completely agree with second bolded paragraph. I think everybody who lives here needs to be vested in what is best for the nation. As it is now, the rich can leave, so they are not vested. The poor just want to take and give nothing, so they are not vested (but they should be as that gravy train can dry up). The corporations should not get breaks for taking jobs overseas.