Am I the only one who doesn't get the "Occupy Wallstreet" movements

[dngnb8]

Anyone making over $110,000/yr stops paying the Social Security tax on any portion over that. That's an automatic raise for someone already making well over the median annual salary. Is that a "fair share"?

They also pay sales tax, gas tax, car registration tax, etc. All of which amount to a greater percentage of their income than someone making over $110,000/yr (to pick the salary used above).

Are you aware of how a Defined Benefit Plan works?

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think some of the OWS protests are good, however they miss the mark too much and are too hypocritical for me to support. Corporate greed is not the problem. Government is the problem. Crony capitalism is the real problem and too many OWS protesters don't mind CC if it benefits comapnies they deem worthy. It has to be all or nothing. The government shouldn't be giving corporate subsidies to ANYONE.

I was talking to 2 people who were protesting and they couldn't understand why the Solyndra scandal should be a big deal. After all, if it is to support "green" technology than they don't mind the government lending a hand. How about the lightbulb thing? GE reaps the benefits of that boondoggle and they pay no taxes!! The government should not help any company. I don't want want the government trying to pick winners and losers. And when companies get in trouble, let them fail. How else can you keep them honest. Complaining about Wall Street banks taking money that was given is foolish. Blame the people who gave them your money.

As for student loans, it's nonsense like that that will kill support for this movement. No one makes you take out huge loans. They are inherently a risk. My wife got a college education with almost no loans at all by going to a cheap college. If you don't have money to go to the best schools go where you can afford it. If you choose to gamble on taking huge loans, that's on you.

These are the kind of demands that make protesters look childish. The 1% didn't make you take a loan. Companies don't haveto give you a job. They are private companies. I'll never understand why people get angry at the salaries of private company CEO's. The company can pay whatever they want. If you don't like it, don't buy their products. Otherwise, focus your energy where it belongs, getting rid of the politicians who gave our money away and got nothing (for us) in return.

I agree with everything you stated. The selective outrage is hypocritical and greatly diminishes the complaints.

You hit the college issue dead on. I worked my way through graduate school working night shift and taking classes during the day. I still had debt. I didn't complain. I knew what I signed up for. I worked, spent only for the necessities and threw every bit of money I had towards my loan. I paid it off. Imagine that. I paid off my debt. Everyone wants a bail out. Heck, OWS protesters are out in the streets protesting against the bail outs, but they have protesters within that want one! Talk about hypocritical! No one wants to take responsibility.

Oh, and who do they propose pay for their college education? Stick it to someone else? That's the answer? They're protesting that it's the pits when you get stuck with debt that isn't your own, but what the heck, it's okay to stick their debt to someone else?

 

[dngnb8]

 

[HHSTigerFan]

I was being rhetorical but Warren Buffet is quoted as saying he paid less in taxes than his secretary.

Thats simply not true, what he said was that his tax RATE is lower...

Drives me crazy when people claim that a person that makes $1M a year and pays $200K a year in taxes is not paying their fair share compared to a person thats making $30K a year and pays $3K a year in taxes..

 

[dngnb8]

I agree with everything you stated. The selective outrage is hypocritical and greatly diminishes the complaints.

You hit the college issue dead on. I worked my way through graduate school working night shift and taking classes during the day. I still had debt. I didn't complain. I knew what I signed up for. I worked, spent only for the necessities and threw every bit of money I had towards my loan. I paid it off. Imagine that. I paid off my debt. Everyone wants a bail out. Heck, OWS protesters are out in the streets protesting against the bail outs, but they have protesters within that want one! Talk about hypocritical! No one wants to take responsibility.

This is the biggest problem the OWS movement has. When whittled down, the majority of the crowd just wants the money given to them. I share the concern with the foundation movement. But unfortunately, the Liberal Philosophy of social support will attract every deadbeat. It is why the programs have difficulty. People who arent down on their luck as much as they just are lazy and want life given to them.

My views on community are very liberal, but I also recognize that much of that community support is sucked dry by leeches that have no intention of becoming useful to society. As long as you have Government and money, you will have people demanding that it be given to them.

 

[dngnb8]

Yes, there are people who think these people should get a job, etc, but what about those in the protest who have full time white collar day jobs from top colleges? I am one of those people.

I covered this. Those other people are people who drag you down. I dont see the "Movement" being a success as long as you have the dregs dragging you down. As I said, I understand and sympathize with the core movement. But as long as you have the dregs QQing for the freebies, your movement will fail.

 

[Planogirl]

I also sympathize with the overall tone of the movement. I understand the frustration of feeling like a hamster running continuously on a wheel and getting nowhere. I'm so with OWS when it comes to just that.

However, I don't understand totally blaming the banks either. Sure the banks took money but I think that any company would. I blame those that hand out the money personally. I wish that they'd stop doing that because it seems questionable as to whether it even helps. (Car companies notwithstanding.) We need shakeups for sure but I believe that we need it through the government. The banks aren't going to suddenly say that they see the light and start handing out money or do whatever it is that they are supposed to do.

As for jobs, again that's a wide spread problem and not just a bank problem. I keep on mentioning outsourcing but it feels like OWS isn't all that interested in that. This "trickle down" nonsense clearly isn't working and I do blame greed for that. I'm not sure that greed itself can be legislated though. However, maybe some protectionism would be a good thing. I say that feeling a bit uneasy though.

I won't even touch the college loans issue. Someone has to pay for those and if those who want their loans to be forgiven get their way then I imagine that it will be the taxpayer. I pay enough in taxes already.

 

[suebeelin]

I covered this. Those other people are people who drag you down. I dont see the "Movement" being a success as long as you have the dregs dragging you down. As I said, I understand and sympathize with the core movement. But as long as you have the dregs QQing for the freebies, your movement will fail.

Sorry, I did not read the previous posts when I posted. And I agree, which is sad. I do, however, sympathize with the message.

It is too bad that the movement is so disjointed and disorganized. But then again, that's what happens with grassroots movements. Im not saying it will succeed. In fact, I think it will not succeed, and this country is, unfortunately. headed downhill. Our hands are tied. Perhaps my DH, who is completing his MD/Phd, and I, an attorney, can head overseas to find a better situation for our family.

Perhaps this is the beginning of a brain drain, of sorts. And THAT would be sad.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Likewise, I think it's insulting to those that did pay off their debt to imply it was easy. It wasn't. It wasn't easy going to university and working nights. Burning the candle at both ends. Think I had a cushy job when while I worked my way through. No. Did I have a cushy job years after? No. I had to work my way up and find my way. I sacrificed a lot. And there are many, many Americans just like me. What does it say to those of us that were responsible? Protesting in the streets for a bail out is the way to go? Does it say we were "suckers"? That's the gist isn't it? OWS doesn't have the corner market on anger and frustration.

Blaming the whole ball of wax on one President isn't right either. This has been going on for far too long for that. Also, if you are going to blame someone, blame someone that has pushed us over the edge.

 

[dngnb8]

Sorry, I did not read the previous posts when I posted. And I agree, which is sad. I do, however, sympathize with the message.

It is too bad that the movement is so disjointed and disorganized. But then again, that's what happens with grassroots movements. Im not saying it will succeed. In fact, I think it will not succeed, and this country is, unfortunately. headed downhill. Our hands are tied. Perhaps my DH, who is completing his MD/Phd, and I, an attorney, can head overseas to find a better situation for our family.

Perhaps this is the beginning of a brain drain, of sorts. And THAT would be sad.

What happened is the Grassroots were taken over by the Greedyroots. Once the Core lost control, they should have bailed and distanced themselves politically from the dregs. They didnt do that and it sunk their credibility and effectiveness to get their point across.

 

[moburg]

Sorry, I did not read the previous posts when I posted. And I agree, which is sad. I do, however, sympathize with the message.

It is too bad that the movement is so disjointed and disorganized. But then again, that's what happens with grassroots movements. Im not saying it will succeed. In fact, I think it will not succeed, and this country is, unfortunately. headed downhill. Our hands are tied. Perhaps my DH, who is completing his MD/Phd, and I, an attorney, can head overseas to find a better situation for our family.

Perhaps this is the beginning of a brain drain, of sorts. And THAT would be sad.

Whatever grassroots there may have been have long since been taken over by the professional astroturf agitators with a very clear agenda. Any grassroots people left out there are merely useful idiots at this point.

 

[JDUCKY]

Handful of Violent Rioters Don’t Represent “Occupy” Protests
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/handful-violent-rioters-don’t-represent-“occupy”-protests


Much to read there and what's described doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

["Got Disney"]

Today Occupy Boston planned to have a march past historic sites along the Freedom Trail, stopping at the site of the Massacre to make some points. It was scheduled to start at 2:00 pm. It was delayed an hour because a Ben and Jerry's truck showed up at the camp at that time handing out free ice cream.

Goofy stuff like this is why I think a lot of people are having a hard time taking them seriously, even when you might agree with a lot of their purported issues (which I do.)

Ben and Jerrys makes me laugh.....they are supporting the 99% yet are multi millionaires....they are not part of the 99% they are just ideologues...they charge the 99% an arm and a leg for their ice cream....the 99% cant even afford to buy their ice cream...its to stupid expensive.....

its businesses like this that are supporting what the 99% is becoming that will make me not buy their Chunky Monkey anymore....I will buy another brand...

I think some of the OWS protests are good, however they miss the mark too much and are too hypocritical for me to support. Corporate greed is not the problem. Government is the problem. Crony capitalism is the real problem and too many OWS protesters don't mind CC if it benefits comapnies they deem worthy. It has to be all or nothing. The government shouldn't be giving corporate subsidies to ANYONE.

I was talking to 2 people who were protesting and they couldn't understand why the Solyndra scandal should be a big deal. After all, if it is to support "green" technology than they don't mind the government lending a hand. How about the lightbulb thing? GE reaps the benefits of that boondoggle and they pay no taxes!! The government should not help any company. I don't want want the government trying to pick winners and losers. And when companies get in trouble, let them fail. How else can you keep them honest. Complaining about Wall Street banks taking money that was given is foolish. Blame the people who gave them your money.

As for student loans, it's nonsense like that that will kill support for this movement. No one makes you take out huge loans. They are inherently a risk. My wife got a college education with almost no loans at all by going to a cheap college. If you don't have money to go to the best schools go where you can afford it. If you choose to gamble on taking huge loans, that's on you.

These are the kind of demands that make protesters look childish. The 1% didn't make you take a loan. Companies don't haveto give you a job. They are private companies. I'll never understand why people get angry at the salaries of private company CEO's. The company can pay whatever they want. If you don't like it, don't buy their products. Otherwise, focus your energy where it belongs, getting rid of the politicians who gave our money away and got nothing (for us) in return.

I agree with all you say....My son is going to start college in the fall...we will have to take out loans...OUR CHOICE...no one is forcing us to do this...do I think College fees are way to high...yes I do...they are ridiculous.....but we know what it will cost us and know that my son will have to pay it back and we will help him as much as we can. If he was not serious about what he wanted to do and it would not bring in a lot of money and opportunity for a job than he would be going to a cheeper college...College is not for everyone but it is for him. When you take out any loan be it a home or a car or anything it is that...a LOAN and needs to be paid back.

What happened is the Grassroots were taken over by the Greedyroots. Once the Core lost control, they should have bailed and distanced themselves politically from the dregs. They didnt do that and it sunk their credibility and effectiveness to get their point across.

I think the normal people have to separate form the anarchists....if I was there I would go around gathering up normal people and starting to organize....meeting at a certain place...no tents, holding flags....clearing out by darkness and keeping things clean....protesting peacefully and anyone that comes in that does not are escorted out...being respectful to police...this is what I would do....

no Unions... no groups like that......no groups like ACORN....just people fighting for what they believe in a respectful peaceful protest ....
the crap going on right know is not just scary but will end up to be deadly....and the Mayors have to put a stop to it and Obama needs to tell them to protest peacefully...

 

[dngnb8]

Handful of Violent Rioters Don’t Represent “Occupy” Protests
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/handful-violent-rioters-don’t-represent-“occupy”-protests


Much to read there and what's described doesn't surprise me in the least.

Ive posted numerous links that show more then a handful.

This is half the problem, youre downplaying important issues. If these same instances occurred at the Tea Party, you would be linking them as issues.

It is this double standard that devalues the content. You are not recognizing or are being purposefully obtuse to the events that DO reflect on the grassroots of what OWS is doing. You are only rationalizing to yourself. Others see it.

 

[fakereadhed]

Handful of Violent Rioters Don’t Represent “Occupy” Protests
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/handful-violent-rioters-don’t-represent-“occupy”-protests


Much to read there and what's described doesn't surprise me in the least.

Those are some wild conspiracy theories even Glenn Beck couldn't dream up.

 

[dngnb8]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";43150196]Ben and Jerrys makes me laugh.....they are supporting the 99% yet are multi millionaires....they are not part of the 99% they are just ideologues...they charge the 99% an arm and a leg for their ice cream....the 99% cant even afford to buy their ice cream...its to stupid expensive.....[/QUOTE]

 

[Muushka]

I think some of the OWS protests are good, however they miss the mark too much and are too hypocritical for me to support. Corporate greed is not the problem. Government is the problem. Crony capitalism is the real problem and too many OWS protesters don't mind CC if it benefits comapnies they deem worthy. It has to be all or nothing. The government shouldn't be giving corporate subsidies to ANYONE.

I was talking to 2 people who were protesting and they couldn't understand why the Solyndra scandal should be a big deal. After all, if it is to support "green" technology than they don't mind the government lending a hand. How about the lightbulb thing? GE reaps the benefits of that boondoggle and they pay no taxes!! The government should not help any company. I don't want want the government trying to pick winners and losers. And when companies get in trouble, let them fail. How else can you keep them honest. Complaining about Wall Street banks taking money that was given is foolish. Blame the people who gave them your money.

As for student loans, it's nonsense like that that will kill support for this movement. No one makes you take out huge loans. They are inherently a risk. My wife got a college education with almost no loans at all by going to a cheap college. If you don't have money to go to the best schools go where you can afford it. If you choose to gamble on taking huge loans, that's on you.

These are the kind of demands that make protesters look childish. The 1% didn't make you take a loan. Companies don't haveto give you a job. They are private companies. I'll never understand why people get angry at the salaries of private company CEO's. The company can pay whatever they want. If you don't like it, don't buy their products. Otherwise, focus your energy where it belongs, getting rid of the politicians who gave our money away and got nothing (for us) in return.

Finally someone other than me gives a hoot about the Solyndra scandal. Not one person backing this OWS has ever said one negative thing about that, including those on this thread. That is what bothers me about OWS. Their outrage is targeted at what the powers that be want them to be angry with.

Reminds me of wind power. Wonderful green technology. I don't have an official count of how many tens of thousands of birds are killed annually in the blades, but I do know if there is an oil spill, everyone that loves green is all over the poor birds that are slicked with oil.

I get angry at the salaries and bonuses given to those that run Fannie Freddie. Nobody seems to care about that either.

Yup, focus on the politicians, not capitalism.

Thats simply not true, what he said was that his tax RATE is lower...

Drives me crazy when people claim that a person that makes $1M a year and pays $200K a year in taxes is not paying their fair share compared to a person thats making $30K a year and pays $3K a year in taxes..

For some reason, a lot of people can't seem to grasp the difference between higher tax rate and higher taxes.
I guess it serves a purpose to be able to say it incorrectly to make a (false) point.

Likewise, I think it's insulting to those that did pay off their debt to imply it was easy. It wasn't. It wasn't easy going to university and working nights. Burning the candle at both ends. Think I had a cushy job when while I worked my way through. No. Did I have a cushy job years after? No. I had to work my way up and find my way. I sacrificed a lot. And there are many, many Americans just like me. What does it say to those of us that were responsible? Protesting in the streets for a bail out is the way to go? Does it say we were "suckers"? That's the gist isn't it? OWS doesn't have the corner market on anger and frustration.

Blaming the whole ball of wax on one President isn't right either. This has been going on for far too long for that. Also, if you are going to blame someone, blame someone that has pushed us over the edge.

I agree 100%. I don't blame this mess on the president either.
It took years and years of a 2 party congress and 2 party presidents to create this.
We will be with Greece in no time if people don't wake up.

 

[JDUCKY]

Ive posted numerous links that show more then a handful.

This is half the problem, youre downplaying important issues. If these same instances occurred at the Tea Party, you would be linking them as issues.

It is this double standard that devalues the content. You are not recognizing or are being purposefully obtuse to the events that DO reflect on the grassroots of what OWS is doing. You are only rationalizing to yourself. Others see it.

Those are some wild conspiracy theories even Glenn Beck couldn't dream up.

Except those are documented instances of the police and/or governments using provocateurs. Documented and even admitted instances.

But I guess that doesn't mean anything to someone with preconceived notions.

 

[bettymae1121]

I don't agree with studen loan forgiveness, but I can understand the student's frustraion.

If you started college in fall of '08, you'd be graduating (assuming a 4 year degree) in spring of '12. But fall of '08 was the economy tanking, taking the stock market with it. If you're parents saved for your college, you just saw your college fund wiped out just as you were moving in to your dorm. Meanwhile maybe one or even both of your parents got layed off so they can't really help you anymore, and anyway they now have their own retirement to worry about since their 401k's took a hit too...

So...you take on loans (or more loans) that you didn't anticipate, hoping the economy would recover in the next 4-5 years so you could get a decent job and pay those loans back. Afterall, the ticket to a good job is still an education, or so you grew up believing. But the jobs recovery never really happened, and now you're looking at trying to find a job in the next 12 months with high 5 digit loans hanging over your head. Not pretty picture. Meanwhile, the banks that helped cause all this mess got bailed out by tax dollars.

Like I said, student loan forgivness isn't any kind of solution and I'm against it. But...well, like I said, I can understand their frustration. The current generation of college students got screwed on both ends.

 

[robinb]

Except those are documented instances of the police and/or governments using provocateurs. Documented and even admitted instances.

Including my very own governor who admitted that he considered using provocateurs to help disperse the protests around our capitol this last winter.