Am I getting old or is this horribly wrong?

[mhsjax]

Little girls do play with dolls and make mud pies. They can be athletic and talented too. And like pretend games. They can do all of these things and none of it is bad.

Not my little girl. She hated dolls, found them boring. Oh well, saved me a fortune in American Girl stuff

 

[OceanAnnie]

We can argue this until the cows come home and I really don't think anyone is going to change their views on this.

Some posters posted pictures of their girls in dance costumes. Really cute. But at least two were for ballet. Hard to hip hop in a dress-style costume.

There are different genres and each one require different type of outfits. Schools are going to be different in what they deem appropriate also.

The last school that dd attended did a broadway style show at the end of the year. Their costumes very much fit the song and routine. Some things seemed "revealing" at first look but once you actually saw it on the girls it was not actually revealing at all, it just gave an illusion of sorts. For instance those "short shorts" in one video, when paired with skin toned (but not see through) tights are really not revealing at all. One of dd's costumes looked like a really short, short skirt (colors hot pink and black) but it had shorts underneath and again with the tights, she was very well covered. (the skin toned tights cannot really be seen from the audience).

If you do not wish for your child to dance in this way, then make darn sure you know what the dance school you want your child to attend is doing and look at pictures from past recitals and competitions to get an idea on costumes. Oh, and double check those cheer routines too because some will certainly include these same moves.

Personally, to me they are talented little girls dancing to a popular song. That is all it is.

Others want to see it as something evil, so be it.

We all have make the choices for our own children and our own lives.

I will say that I think some of the comments that have been made here against these little girls are totally inappropriate as was the comment about the men in the audience. MUCH more inappropriate than anything these children were doing.

Something we can all agree on.

East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.

Not my little girl. She hated dolls, found them boring. Oh well, saved me a fortune in American Girl stuff

That's why I stated, "can". It's not out of the norm for little girls to do these things or not.

 

[punkin]

We can argue this until the cows come home and I really don't think anyone is going to change their views on this.

Some posters posted pictures of their girls in dance costumes. Really cute. But at least two were for ballet. Hard to hip hop in a dress-style costume.

There are different genres and each one require different type of outfits. Schools are going to be different in what they deem appropriate also.

The last school that dd attended did a broadway style show at the end of the year. Their costumes very much fit the song and routine. Some things seemed "revealing" at first look but once you actually saw it on the girls it was not actually revealing at all, it just gave an illusion of sorts. For instance those "short shorts" in one video, when paired with skin toned (but not see through) tights are really not revealing at all. One of dd's costumes looked like a really short, short skirt (colors hot pink and black) but it had shorts underneath and again with the tights, she was very well covered. (the skin toned tights cannot really be seen from the audience).

If you do not wish for your child to dance in this way, then make darn sure you know what the dance school you want your child to attend is doing and look at pictures from past recitals and competitions to get an idea on costumes. Oh, and double check those cheer routines too because some will certainly include these same moves.

Personally, to me they are talented little girls dancing to a popular song. That is all it is.

Others want to see it as something evil, so be it.

We all have make the choices for our own children and our own lives.

I will say that I think some of the comments that have been made here against these little girls are totally inappropriate as was the comment about the men in the audience. MUCH more inappropriate than anything these children were doing.

...and this is better than anything I could have said on the topic...

 

[mhsjax]

I thought it fit the discussion.

You thought it fit the discussion that probably most of the men were fathers and brothers or other relatives and watching the girls and pulling out dollars. THAT is beyond disgusting. NO way did it fit the discussion.

 

[declansdad]

That may be so however according to the guidlines that were posted, any choreography or costuming using sex as a theme would be inappropriate. I think that the one titled "Hanky Panky" (the song is Hanky Panky and you don't need sound to know what thats about) would definitely be inappropriate for this competition according to those guidlines.


These guidelines are:
“Choreography, costuming, and/or the use of dance themes such as rape, suicide, murder, sex, domestic violence, anorexia, and dark undertones chosen and/or presented to competition audiences with a lack of “artistic discretion” is considered inappropriate. The FDC appreciates the art form,
creativity and desire to heighten world awareness of these themes through dance but deem it inappropriate to present them to audiences that include children of every age. We recognize that this is extremely subjective and sensitive. Therefore, each competition will individually address these
performances as they surface at each particular event. An entry that is ultimately deemed inappropriate by an FDC competition will be adjudicated only. We urge all studio owners, teachers, and especially parents to keep performances thematically and choreographically appropriate.”

See bold sections.

The guidelines say they may be inappropriate not they are inappropriate.

 

[Mermaid02]

We can argue this until the cows come home and I really don't think anyone is going to change their views on this.

Some posters posted pictures of their girls in dance costumes. Really cute. But at least two were for ballet. Hard to hip hop in a dress-style costume.

There are different genres and each one require different type of outfits. Schools are going to be different in what they deem appropriate also.

The last school that dd attended did a broadway style show at the end of the year. Their costumes very much fit the song and routine. Some things seemed "revealing" at first look but once you actually saw it on the girls it was not actually revealing at all, it just gave an illusion of sorts. For instance those "short shorts" in one video, when paired with skin toned (but not see through) tights are really not revealing at all. One of dd's costumes looked like a really short, short skirt (colors hot pink and black) but it had shorts underneath and again with the tights, she was very well covered. (the skin toned tights cannot really be seen from the audience).

If you do not wish for your child to dance in this way, then make darn sure you know what the dance school you want your child to attend is doing and look at pictures from past recitals and competitions to get an idea on costumes. Oh, and double check those cheer routines too because some will certainly include these same moves.

Personally, to me they are talented little girls dancing to a popular song. That is all it is.

Others want to see it as something evil, so be it.

We all have make the choices for our own children and our own lives.

I will say that I think some of the comments that have been made here against these little girls are totally inappropriate as was the comment about the men in the audience. MUCH more inappropriate than anything these children were doing.

You were doing okay until you used the word "want". I dont' WANT to see it as inappropriate- it IS inappropriate- it is contrary to the values I was raised with and to the values I am passing on to my children. And trust me, I am NO prude.

With parental "guidance" that lets these girls get on stage as mini showgirls and shake their "thang" like pole dancers- it's not a leap to think as they get older their parentally condoned behavior will continue to be inappropriate. Not the kids fault, but the result of crappy parenting.

You go ahead and say the rest of us are puritanical prudes, we're okay with that. Our daughters won't be objectified- they won't be internet fodder for the pervs of the world, they won't be shaking and shimmying and gyrating and hip thrusting in teeny tiny little hotpants all before they even hit puberty.

 

[cheermom1]

...and this is better than anything I could have said on the topic...

I have to agree as some of the things I read about looking for their wallet and stuff was very wrong. We ARE talking about little girls and they have no idea what really is going on or what things like this mean. I'm sure they didn;t know they were being 'sexy' and they were just having fun. However it is up the adults in their lives to explain things.

Just like when my dd was in pee wee cheer I had a girl come up to me and ask 'why do old men always drive by and honk at them??' I told her to have her mom explain it. I do know her mom and knew should would explain it. I used this as an example to how the girls really do not understand that what they are doing or how they dress or how they act will effect people good or bad. It is our job to teach and guide our children about the real world and how to react to it.

 

[Mkrop]

The last school that dd attended did a broadway style show at the end of the year. Their costumes very much fit the song and routine. Some things seemed "revealing" at first look but once you actually saw it on the girls it was not actually revealing at all, it just gave an illusion of sorts. For instance those "short shorts" in one video, when paired with skin toned (but not see through) tights are really not revealing at all. One of dd's costumes looked like a really short, short skirt (colors hot pink and black) but it had shorts underneath and again with the tights, she was very well covered. (the skin toned tights cannot really be seen from the audience).

.

Why do things have to give the illusion of revealing for young girls, to me even that is inappropriate.

 

[mhsjax]

Judging by the routines on YouTube of Showstopper dance competition, you would need to be naked and actually simulating sex for it to be deemed too inapppropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6aSgtHIjsI&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZaoks2LHWQ&feature=related

Here's one called Hanky Panky. Granted its older girls but its still Showstopper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QH4xZIDZ_c&feature=related


So yes, competitions do allow this kind of choreography no matter what it may say on their website.

THere is absolutly nothing wrong with the choreography on any of those dances. Any for anyone who thinks there is, well then those dances deemed appropriate must be really dull.

 

[krcit]

I have to agree as some of the things I read about looking for their wallet and stuff was very wrong. We ARE talking about little girls and they have no idea what really is going on or what things like this mean. I'm sure they didn;t know they were being 'sexy' and they were just having fun. However it is up the adults in their lives to explain things.

Just like when my dd was in pee wee cheer I had a girl come up to me and ask 'why do old men always drive by and honk at them??' I told her to have her mom explain it. I do know her mom and knew should would explain it. I used this as an example to how the girls really do not understand that what they are doing or how they dress or how they act will effect people good or bad. It is our job to teach and guide our children about the real world and how to react to it.

Exactly! A few years ago I went to a block party and my dd's friend(11 at the time) was rollerblading up and down the street in a bikini. Now she was 5'8: and fully developed physically but had no idea that she looked like anything other than the little girl she was. She looked 17. Her mom (my very good friend) wasn't there yet so I took her aside and suggested that she put on a t-shirt and shorts. Her mom was grateful and explained to her dd why she shouldn't be running around like that in front of strangers.

 

[surfergirl602]

It's going to be discussed on Showbiz Tonight too. Set up my DVR to record the repeat of Joy Behar and they announced what's coming up on Showbiz Tonight. Which I will also record so I can fast forward through it, because just sitting here with my back to it, I cannot stand that show.

Please let us know what is discussed. I don't get those shows.

 

[declansdad]

Look at the thread...... the VAST majority of people think this dance routine was trashy, and inappropriate...... I dont' think it's a stretch to think that there were those in the audience (although they may have been silent, or speechless) who felt the same. I bet there were MANY in the audience who were dumbfounded.

I doubt men were reaching for money- but I bet they were uncomfortable.

The post in question didn't say anything about men in the audience being uncomfortable but rather it was making a comment alluding to men thinking of these girls as strippers and reaching for their wallets to pay them for stripping. It amazes me that you fail to see the difference.

As for people being uncomfortable in the audience, there sure was lots of cheering and screaming for people who were uncomfortable.

 

[declansdad]

You were doing okay until you used the word "want". I dont' WANT to see it as inappropriate- it IS inappropriate- it is contrary to the values I was raised with and to the values I am passing on to my children. And trust me, I am NO prude.

This is an important point in this discussion; everyone has a different set of values and morals. That fact alone will elicit different responses to this video. It doesn't, however, mean any one view is right or wrong.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

uuh, you can take the condensention out of your post and just answer the question If she is so repulsed by it, why would she even want to draw more attention to it, its a simple valid question. You all seem to be so worried about the children and the drooling pedophiles that may have been in the audience. What about the ones watching Joy who had no idea this show existed? I see, its only when they are their watchig live that we have to protect the children, who cares if we hi-light what they are doing so those unaware of it can check it out. Yeah, that make sense You dont need to showcase every controversial or repulsive thing out there, the only reason you do it is to make sure YOU stay relevant in today's media. (Not you, I'm talking about those in the media who claim to repulsed by what these little girls are doing).
Oh and BTW she doesn't need to invite the girls on to promote it, just mentioning it gives it attention and draws people's curisioty in, but I'm sure you really do know that

Since I have no idea what "condensention" means, I'll have to skip an explanation of whether or not it was in my post.

I did answer the question. You questioned why Joy Behar would put something she found repulsive on her show. I answered...and a darn good answer it was, if I may say so myself. News/talk shows are going to discuss controversial topics yada yada yada...it was on her show. It fits the criteria. And yeah, if someone watching it thinks maybe they should put a little more effort into picking a dance studio, then there's a benefit in it as well too. And if it opens up discussions about what's right and what's SO WRONG, maybe some people who think that prostitot dancing is the only way to go because EVERYONE is doing it will find out from talks with others that it's not only inappropriate, but that there ARE other options out there. IMHO, of course.

By insinuating the the men in the audience thought of them as strippers and were turned on the the sexuality of these young girls.

The person who made the comment about men in the audience taking out their money was hardly talking about ALL men, nor do I believe that he/she was being literal. It was a reference to putting little girls on a stage in pseudo-lingerie, dancing provocatively, similar to performances which might take place in a "gentlemen's club's" where they do in fact offer dollars for these performances. And don't anyone come back and say "But bathing suits show more."

When you put it all together, the Frederick's of Hollywood look, the pelvic thrusts with spread legs wearing short shorts, the shakes and shimmys, the pursed lips, licking fingers, ugh. Disgusting. I don't even want to watch an adult do that, let alone a child!

I can't imagine letting my child onstage in an outfit I would call "extremely revealing"

Me neither.

I also asked for a naked can can.

But the question is...did you get it?

Of course they are going to be anywhere that children are. I didn't mean that they wouldn't be there. I just meant that it is unlikely that he is going to sit in an audience and pick out a girl and then be able to know where to find her after the show is over (as in find her home).

Unlikely, but possible. And as I said...does it really have to come down to whether the scuzz would have actual contact with your child, or just that he (or she) is leering at your child? And, as Buckalew pointed out previously, perhaps there are creeps getting off on this show, and releasing those sexual feelings on some other child who IS available.

So how does that make it right to make a comment such as "how many men were reaching for their wallet...."?

That comment was insulting to every man on this board and every man that has seen that performance.

Asking how many men (if that was a direct quote) is NOT saying ANYTHING about EVERY man ANYWHERE.

I didn't twist anything YOU brought but child porn not me.

I wasn't saying that because something happened before that makes it ok. I was simply saying that everyone that is outraged by this acts like it is something that has never been done before. THESE ARE NORMAL HIP HOP DANCE MOVES.

And of course you have twisted my words about the costume. It is a dance costume like many other dance costumes, not just because it is on stage but becuase that is what it is. I am sure there are places where a thong and a bra are considered a costume, I don't know I don't go to those places and I really don't think it would be considered a costume for most dance studios. What these girls are wearing is far, far from a bra and thong. Why must we exaggerate everything?

And I am saying THIS:
I brought up the child porn as an ATTEMPT at explaining that pedophiles DO get off on children behaving sexually, or there wouldn't be a market for child pornography. Yes, I agree that a pedophile is looking for an easy target, but FOR WHAT. Sex. Do you think the only sexual thinking that they do is when they are actually committing the act? You don't think they're LOOKING at children behaving sexually?

AND THIS:
It doesn't matter that this video shows something that's been done before. If we had seen prior videos, we'd be talking about them. The fact that this is done and has been done before gives NO validation to it being done in this video, or being done at all.

AND THIS:
I did not say that what they are wearing is a bra and thong, but I WILL say that it isn't as far far away as you seem to think. I am saying that your explanation of what constitutes "a costume"..."because that is what it is"...first, is no explanation at all (depending on what the meaning of "is" is ), and second, puts ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING into the costume category, as long as someone calls it a costume.

I agree that it was a sick and disgusting comment.

Implying that all men are pedophile's doesn't fit ANY discussion. Actually implying that these little girls were stripping on stage doesn't fit any discussion either.

That comment about the men didn't imply any such thing, but if it feeds your disgust, have at it. No one said they were stripping...they DID in fact leave on what little clothes they were wearing. The moves however, will serve them well someday if they choose to do so.

You were doing okay until you used the word "want". I dont' WANT to see it as inappropriate- it IS inappropriate- it is contrary to the values I was raised with and to the values I am passing on to my children. And trust me, I am NO prude.

With parental "guidance" that lets these girls get on stage as mini showgirls and shake their "thang" like pole dancers- it's not a leap to think as they get older their parentally condoned behavior will continue to be inappropriate. Not the kids fault, but the result of crappy parenting.

 

[luvsJack]

You were doing okay until you used the word "want". I dont' WANT to see it as inappropriate- it IS inappropriate- it is contrary to the values I was raised with and to the values I am passing on to my children. And trust me, I am NO prude.

With parental "guidance" that lets these girls get on stage as mini showgirls and shake their "thang" like pole dancers- it's not a leap to think as they get older their parentally condoned behavior will continue to be inappropriate. Not the kids fault, but the result of crappy parenting.

You go ahead and say the rest of us are puritanical prudes, we're okay with that. Our daughters won't be objectified- they won't be internet fodder for the pervs of the world, they won't be shaking and shimmying and gyrating and hip thrusting in teeny tiny little hotpants all before they even hit puberty.

I said what I wanted to say so I "did ok" through out my post.

I am not sure where you think I called anyone a prude, because I did not. Although I did say something about others getting their minds out of the gutter and I still think there are a few stuck there. And I couldn't actually care less what you do or don't allow your kids to do. That is strictly up to you.

I do think you are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black though since you seem determined to say that anyone that doesn't have huge issues with this performance are bad parents that are sexually exploiting their children. But you see, I am comfortable enough in my role as a parent that it really doesn't bother me so I refuse to be insulted by it.

 

[Basil of Baker St]

[/QUOTE]I suppose from your perspective imposing your version of morality on other people is not a bad thing. However, as a person who does not see anything particularly inappropriate in this video, I am offended by many of the posts in this thread.[/QUOTE]

Well, I guess your feelings of being offended are more valid than my feelings of being offended, because I was offended by that video.

Welcome to society, where versions of morality are imposed on other people all of the time. Some people may not find armed robbery morally reprehensible, but I doubt that makes for a good defense in court. Some people (NAMBLA, for instance) see no problem with pedophilia, does that make it ok?

 

[jodifla]

Wow, those kids can really dance.

The costumes are ludicrous for that age. Some of the moves are as well.

It would have all been a lot more palatable with different costumes and losing just a few of the moves, frankly.

Of course, then it wouldn't be all over the Internet! I think people are responding just like the dance's creators wanted them to.

 

[pilesoflaundry]

I would love to smack every one of the parents upside the head. grrr.

They are really great dancers, it's too bad their parents had to tart them up like that because they really didn't need it to put on a good show.

It's all completely inappropriate, the song, the dancing and the outfits. I wouldn't want to see any kids in costumes like that but it's especially bad at their ages.

 

[surfergirl602]

Does anyone know what the outcome of this dance competition was?

 

[declansdad]

The person who made the comment about men in the audience taking out their money was hardly talking about ALL men, nor do I believe that he/she was being literal. It was a reference to putting little girls on a stage in pseudo-lingerie, dancing provocatively, similar to performances which might take place in a "gentlemen's club's" where they do in fact offer dollars for these performances. And don't anyone come back and say "But bathing suits show more."

Asking how many men (if that was a direct quote) is NOT saying ANYTHING about EVERY man ANYWHERE.

It doesn't matter if the poster was being literal or not, the comment was made and it was a rude comment that demeans men.

To me and others, the comment did say something otherwise, we would be discussing it.