Allure going, going, gone...

[Sammie]

I'm not an SSR fan, but when I visited the resort, I thought the pool area was pretty spectacular. Its not SAB - but I'm not an SAB fan either.

I think some people like to blame others for their own foolishness. Really, to expect that you will be able to book BCV consistantly only a month out is simply foolish - SSR or no SSR. That isn't the way a points based timeshare is going to work that opens up "non-home" resorts after a booking window - there are less than 200 rooms at BCV - and with SAB being such a popular draw, that resort is going to draw people from BWV, OKW, HHI, VB and VWL - all resorts that were in existance when BCV was built. And Disney never promised no additional resorts - the rumored resort when BCV was being sold was Eagle Pines - which would have likely been just as an unbalancing situation as SSR. If your expectations for availability at BCV were based on getting lucky in Septembers following 9/11 - it isn't surprising they aren't being met.

Other variables have been added as well. I'm SHOCKED at how many guidebooks I pick up now that direct people here for the bargain of a DVC rental - you aren't just competing with DVC members taking their own vacations - you are competing with every person willing to take the rental risk to get a great deal staying at the Beach Club (which is how most renters are going to look at it). And Disney has gotten busy year round - people now know that if they want to avoid lines, they need to avoid peak seasons - and if that means pulling the kids for a week in September, they do that more than ever. The explosion in people who homeschool and year round schools have increased the number of families that don't even need to pull kids from school.

Home resort only grants an advantage between 7 and 11 months. From that point on "points is points." That's the system we all signed up for - the OKW people who didn't know what was coming and they folks who joined yesterday with new VAK contracts. If you want the home resort advantage, you need to be able to plan ahead. If you can't plan ahead, DVC is not going to be nearly as flexible as paying cash. There is a cost associated with "great room/great price" - this is one of the costs.

Very well said and pretty much sums up the situation and with the addition of AKV and Contemporary, well it is only going to get worse as DVC takes over the World.

 

[alldiz]

I didn't vote in the poll...

Only a member since march....

I own at WL....2 months before memorial day....
I booked a 1br at SSR...only thing available...
I was quite happy SSR was there....OR I WOULDNT HAVE BEEN
ABLE TO GO....

We loved it....so much....only went to parks 3 days...

I also booked a 1 br at BCV....4 mths out....ya snooze ya lose.

If you can only book last minute....
Maybe you should sell your DVC.....might not be right for you...
Lots of extra money for that Nick place
Enjoy
Kerri

 

[auntsue]

I voted "No," because I usually book 11 months out. However I just found out that my SIL and sister are planning on going next April, so I called today and was able to book my home resort BWV in a 1BR Boardwalk view at 9 months out. I was surprised I got it, I always call day by day if I want the view, or standard for that matter. I took the Boardwalk view because I fully expected to get stuck with preferred view for the same amount of points, so I was already prepared to spend the 210 points. They even offered me standard view, but it's hard to give up that beautiful boardwalk view when it's available. I know there would have been no chance of even staying there if we were at the 7 month mark or less.

 

[PamOKW]

.

Of course, having recently stayed at Saratoga Springs, I don't want to stay there again and I think this feeling is shared by most who own there and they are flocking to the other resorts filling them up even in the periods of low vacancy.

There is another hotel in the area that is fully booked year around and commands stratospheric rates for its rooms. I am talking about Nick Hotel - everyone who stays there raves of the amenities and how much the kids love the place, the pool area, the diversions, etc. I am an ardent Disney fan, but I can tell you that my kids were not raving about SSR. Quite the contrary, they kept asking me if we were going to go to the swirly, sandy pool. I told them that yes, in September we would go. :>(
.

Every "rule" has an exception. And I know of exceptions to each of the statements above.....

Friends of mine bought SSR during a surprise trip I'd given them to OKW. We're planning to go together next year and they talked about AKL. Once they realized the new village wouldn't be ready, the husband said he wanted to go to SSR.....or OKW. I told them we could also think about BWV. His reaction? No Way Jose. Now, I think once he stays there, he would come to appreciate it but right now he absolutely LOVES SSR and is hard pressed to stay elsewhere. One thing he mentioned is the ease by which he can get anywhere in WDW from SSR and he loves the pool.

As to the fabulous Nick hotel? A co-worker checked out after one night -- way too much screaming kids in the pool even for her own kids who had wanted to stay there. The whole family was really turned off by the whole place.

 

[jarestel]

Having owned at VWL for 7 years, I agree that it is definitely more difficult to book "spur-of-the-moment" trips there than it used to be, even in so-called slow times. More members means more competition for the rooms at the smaller resorts. SSR has added many more members and AKV will only add to the situation. So I can understand the OP's frustration.

But, as the wise and learned folks on these boards have said time and again in response to inquiries from potential members seeking advice, "If it's important to one's vacation to stay at a specific resort, buy at that resort and use the 11-month booking advantage".

This has proven to be excellent advice and will be even more relevant after AKV is fully operational, IMO.

 

[Jollymon]

I think I was perfectly clear that my evaluation of 'sub/par' in respect to SSR amenities was totally dependent on my particular situation. I am a parent with 3 kids, and when I arrived at the pool, there was not a single chair or lounger available and the pool was overrun with people. I am not sure why such a small pool would be built for such a large property. This, in my situation is 'sub/par'.

This was not meant a bash to the DVC system - I love it - I talk it up to whomever I meet. It was a statement of how things, in my perspective, have changed and how I feel that SSR has made them change. Some of the respondents have posted several logical explanations which have lots of merit (post 9/11 slowdown, less regard for school schedules, etc.) so maybe it is not all SSR's fault - but I still believe it is a major contributor to the 'problem'.

For discussion sake, it is irrelevant the responses about booking early. My post specifically alluded to the (now gone) ability of booking late. To me it was a major allure of the system and whether this was due to lower room counts, demand, or whatever, it is no longer available and it is sorely missed.

My remark on the 'Nick' property is based on disbelief that DVC did not put some type of marquee amenity at SSR that would draw the people (kids) in by the boat load. If 'Nick' could do it, why did DVC not do it with a resort built at pretty much the same time? Honestly, not bashing here, but if I had to 'pay' for accommodations and the choice was between 'Nick' and SSR, I would choose 'Nick', not because of my personal preference (I prefer natural settings), but because my kids would have a better time (at this point in my life, it is not about me).

I have to believe that the only reason a marquee aquatic facility was not built, has to do with the additional expense that it would entail. Being that these units will sell with or without this marquee attraction, why include it? One can argue that it would raise the cost of the 'points', but I think there is plenty of money here. I remember a study I did based on what I paid for the contract and the percentage of the unit that is detailed on the deed; I cannot recall if the amount that the whole unit would sell for was $1.6 million or $3.6 million, but it was crazy money and that was when points were selling at $80! Let's face it, spending as little as possible and selling for as much as possible is a great business plan, but I think it killed my ability to book late!

 

[MissMet]

This was not meant a bash to the DVC system - I love it - I talk it up to whomever I meet. It was a statement of how things, in my perspective, have changed and how I feel that SSR has made them change. Some of the respondents have posted several logical explanations which have lots of merit (post 9/11 slowdown, less regard for school schedules, etc.) so maybe it is not all SSR's fault - but I still believe it is a major contributor to the 'problem'.

I feel the main reason along with what you've already listed is the gosh darn renters! I mean DIS has a whole forum page on it. It's not us SSR crashers, it's all the owners that rent. I have never been able to get a room at BCV, but go on the renting forum there's TONS . It's kinda frustrating. Not saying DVC should ban it or not, I'm just saying that that is what is causing your heart ache, IMO, not SSR owners.

BTW, I feel SSR's pool is a bit small too, but I like the resort, I guess. It's not my first choice, but to each his own.

Don't worry, once the new AKV opens in '09 you should see a difference.

 

[CarolA]

I think I was perfectly clear that my evaluation of 'sub/par' in respect to SSR amenities was totally dependent on my particular situation. I am a parent with 3 kids, and when I arrived at the pool, there was not a single chair or lounger available and the pool was overrun with people. I am not sure why such a small pool would be built for such a large property. This, in my situation is 'sub/par'.

This was not meant a bash to the DVC system - I love it - I talk it up to whomever I meet. It was a statement of how things, in my perspective, have changed and how I feel that SSR has made them change. Some of the respondents have posted several logical explanations which have lots of merit (post 9/11 slowdown, less regard for school schedules, etc.) so maybe it is not all SSR's fault - but I still believe it is a major contributor to the 'problem'.

For discussion sake, it is irrelevant the responses about booking early. My post specifically alluded to the (now gone) ability of booking late. To me it was a major allure of the system and whether this was due to lower room counts, demand, or whatever, it is no longer available and it is sorely missed.

My remark on the 'Nick' property is based on disbelief that DVC did not put some type of marquee amenity at SSR that would draw the people (kids) in by the boat load. If 'Nick' could do it, why did DVC not do it with a resort built at pretty much the same time? Honestly, not bashing here, but if I had to 'pay' for accommodations and the choice was between 'Nick' and SSR, I would choose 'Nick', not because of my personal preference (I prefer natural settings), but because my kids would have a better time (at this point in my life, it is not about me).

I have to believe that the only reason a marquee aquatic facility was not built, has to do with the additional expense that it would entail. Being that these units will sell with or without this marquee attraction, why include it? One can argue that it would raise the cost of the 'points', but I think there is plenty of money here. I remember a study I did based on what I paid for the contract and the percentage of the unit that is detailed on the deed; I cannot recall if the amount that the whole unit would sell for was $1.6 million or $3.6 million, but it was crazy money and that was when points were selling at $80! Let's face it, spending as little as possible and selling for as much as possible is a great business plan, but I think it killed my ability to book late!

OK. You are here to "stir up trouble" we get it....


NICK?? Have you READ the hotel reviews over there. Mold, dirt, incredibly rude come to mind..... OUTRAGEOUS pricing for a Holiday Inn. (And that's what it is a HOLIDAY INN with a fancy paint job!!!!) Sorry that pool is not worth near what they want for it. Yes, kids love it. Kids are happy if Spongebob is there.....they don't care if the room is dirty. (I do NOT stay places where I need to take my own Lysol)
Feel free to stay there. That's one less person staying at SSR which I think almost anyone would agree is a much nicer accomodation.... (And don't lose that wrist band or you will be paying an extra $25!!!)

 

[castleri]

When I first talked with my DVC guide Linda Scolaro in 1997 while purchasing our first contract one of the points she made was that if you cannot plan in advance this may not be the program for you. That was well before SSR and several others BCV included. She stressed that if a person is the type who wants to make last minute trips that there could be a lot of disappointment. I was able to get reservations for NYE and a couple of the days after at 4 months notice this past year and was quite happy that they were at SSR. I own at OKW, BCV and SSR and like them all for different reasons but especially like the proximity to DTD at SSR where we can catch a bus to another resort if we have ADRs there. The pool at BCV is wonderful and the only one where I have ever had trouble finding room to sit. We did visit the main pool at SSR while waiting for the weekly member meeting one time and there were plenty of empty seats. I think that might be the case with most pools in the off season but in June and the rest of the summer I bet all the pools have crowding and seating issues. My BCV points are currently reserving a 2 BR at OKW because as you don't care for SSR I found the actual villas at BCV to be my second to least favorite just ahead of BW. That is what is so great I can stay at any of the resorts if I make my plans early enough. I think that you are wrong stating that most SSR owners don't want to stay there - some yes but not most. Even at that they can't book any other resort before 7 months out so if you make your reservation before that you are only competing with other owners of that resort.

 

[JimMIA]

I could swear that the original post looks identical to one I read at least a year ago.

These threads have a way of regurgitating themselves. And I suspect you and Deb are both right.

ETA: And CarolA!

 

[MrsNick]

FWIW, SSR seems to have been intentionally built for a more adult crowd, rather than to 'bring in kids by the boatload.'

Just as BWV has the reputation of being for a more adult crowd, I believe that's what SSR will also have as its reputation. Look at its decor and proximity to DTD.

Sorry, but I don't want to stay at ANY place with the reputation of 'bringing in kids by the boatload' if I do have kids with me, and especially not if I don't!

I can access lots of stimulating activity when I want to, but at the end of the day, I want to be able to come back to a resort where I can actually relax and get some sleep (and where the kids could get away from overstimulation). You keep Nick Hotel, and I will gladly keep DVC, which even at the more adult resorts is still kid friendly.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I'm newbie to this board and this is my first post. I'm glad it is here. We love SSR. Been to the BW and was not thrilled. The location and view was cool. But hands down SSR is our fav.

Welcome Boss... to the DIS Boards. Stick with us.. it's almost as good as a rollercoaster ride.

 

[Mississippian]

I have had several occasions over the years to take last minute vacations. When I call MS, I usually find my home isnt available ( BWV ) even during the slow seasons. However, there is always something, usually SSR, and I'm thankful for that.

You are aware, of course, that the OP is upset that the SSR people have booked up his home resort, which is why it is full, and why there is availability at SSR. BWV is a pretty large resort, too. Shouldn't there "always" be availability there, too.

Anyway, SSR does NOT add availability by making something available. It reduces hotel-quality DVC availability and leaves those owners with the option of SSR or nothing. For many, myself included, nothing is often the preferred choice.

FWIW, I think AKV is only about 100 units too large, and is a very welcome addition to the system. Certainly it will help mop up some of the people who bought at SSR even though they really didn't like that resort very much. I hope there will be at least 500 units at the Contemporary if it is ever built. If so, it should hammer the system back into shape so that owners won't get stuck having to stay at a resort with poor park access, multiple bus stops or few hotel amenities (although I am aware this is exactly what some people look for in a vacation).

Back to my original point. When you call and SSR is the only thing that is available, then if SSR didn't exist another DVC resort would be available. I can assure you that most BCV owners would rather be told they would "have" to stay at the Boardwalk than at SSR. So I'm certainly not "grateful" that SSR is there for me.

But as I said, I do think things are going to get better with the new resorts, and I'm at least glad about that.

One final thing: I am aware that many people love SSR. It is a pretty resort for someone wanting to "chill out." But 800 units in a resort with poor park access and no amenities execpt a spa (which you have to pay for!) is about three times what DVC needed, and it totally distorted the system. And that's why I don't like SSR, and I'm certainly not "grateful" for it.

 

[Snookies]

In the true spirit of regurgitation..., it is an assumption that "SSR people" have booked up OP's home resort, thus creating availability at SSR. Moreover, resort size is a relative concept. IMO, BWV is a large resort, but it is relatively small when compared to OKW & SSR. Specifically, there are 149 2bdr lock-offs available at BWV, while OKW offers 230 2bdr lock-offs & 274 dedicated 2 bdrs and SSR offers 432 2bdr lock-offs & 360 dedicated 2bdrs. Given relative size, I would expect to see availability at SSR after BWV is fully booked, regardless of owner preference. In addition, SSR reduces the availability of nothing during other owners' home resort priority. To avoid the option of "SSR or nothing" owners at other resorts should take advantage of their priority window. Finally, like resort size, park access is a relative concept. SSR's park access is the same as OKW's park access, with SSR having better Downtown Disney (& Typhoon Lagoon) access. BWV & BCV access is only better for MGM & Epcot and about the same as OKW & SSR for MK and AK, while AKV will be the most remote location (but no more than a 15-minute drive if that) to any location's parking lot. Happy 4th of July to Everyone. Be Safe.

 

[Cee]

Honestly, I'd rather stay there than anyplace else. Have been enjoying this
location and all it has to offer since it was the "Disney Villas". IMO, the location
alone can't be beat.

 

[castleri]

In the true spirit of regurgitation..., it is an assumption that "SSR people" have booked up OP's home resort, thus creating availability at SSR.

I totally agree with your statement about it being an assumption - Couldn't it also be her fellow owners who are staying there - after all there are not enough rooms for there to be one for every owner for every day of the year - it could be all those BCV owners who had the foresight to book early rather than waiting until the last minute - it could also be guests and rentees of BCV owners who are taking up the space. It may in fact have been booked for that time frame before the 7 month window even opened. Lastly it could be owners from any of the other resorts who just want a change or want that SAB experience especially in the hot weather.

Being a BCV owner who has not used my points to stay there in several years I am one who has been booking valuable space at SSR and OKW using those points. I also own at OKW and SSR and use my points from these to stay at my home resorts booking at the 11-7 month window. I may try to use some of the BCV ones to stay at AKV in the future - will I be on someone's "bad" list for doing this? I'll be one of those BCV owners who is taking up space at AKV. I for one am glad that there is an SSR as it offers things that are truly different than any of the other resorts.

Also I have found the SSR bus service to the parks to be superior to BWV and BCV - I always got the buses that stopped at Swan/Dolphin/yacht Club/Beach CLub and then BW - Those stops took significantly more time than the stops in the SSR and OKW resorts with their dedicated buses. I am one of the BCV owners who had the choice of BWV or SSR for the time around NYE and chose SSR. I do not think SSR has poor park access but then I no longer have that mentality that an extra few minutes on a bus is going to make or break my WDW stay and don't care whether I can walk to a park or not. At least now maybe AKV will take over the "Poor Park Access " top spot. (I don't find this to be true but think many will) I will be back another time and the many transportation choices are part of the whole experience.

 

[eva]

When I first talked with my DVC guide Linda Scolaro in 1997 while purchasing our first contract one of the points she made was that if you cannot plan in advance this may not be the program for you. That was well before SSR and several others BCV included. She stressed that if a person is the type who wants to make last minute trips that there could be a lot of disappointment. I was able to get reservations for NYE and a couple of the days after at 4 months notice this past year and was quite happy that they were at SSR. I own at OKW, BCV and SSR and like them all for different reasons but especially like the proximity to DTD at SSR where we can catch a bus to another resort if we have ADRs there. The pool at BCV is wonderful and the only one where I have ever had trouble finding room to sit. We did visit the main pool at SSR while waiting for the weekly member meeting one time and there were plenty of empty seats. I think that might be the case with most pools in the off season but in June and the rest of the summer I bet all the pools have crowding and seating issues. My BCV points are currently reserving a 2 BR at OKW because as you don't care for SSR I found the actual villas at BCV to be my second to least favorite just ahead of BW. That is what is so great I can stay at any of the resorts if I make my plans early enough. I think that you are wrong stating that most SSR owners don't want to stay there - some yes but not most. Even at that they can't book any other resort before 7 months out so if you make your reservation before that you are only competing with other owners of that resort.

We bought in 1997 too and received the same warning from our guide. BWV had just come on the scene and they were predicting the 11/7 month window was going to become even more important.

I did not vote either. Because we have only planned one trip in 10 years outside of the 7-11 month booking window. And that was back in the days when there was only OKW and BWV. Did we get the room? Yes, but that was after waitlisting and calling every other day for 6 weeks. So in my opinion, there has always been difficulties in getting rooms on short notice. At least now you can get a room. Back then it was sorry no rooms available. If you lucked out in the past, then I believe that is exactly what it was---Luck.

 

[crisi]

There is a quality I call "balance." Balance is the concept that resorts have an balanced supply and demand across them, so that all resorts fill at the same rate. Popular resorts have more rooms and cost more points. If I were desigining DVC from the ground up, I'd strive for balance.

The concept of balance for DVC isn't a quality that DVC itself has ever strove for. And it was blown the moment DVC put in Standard View rooms at the Boardwalk - back when SSR was still The Disney Institute. Did SSR throw off balance even more? - yep - its a very large resort and its points are set higher than OKW. But VWL - so small - and BCV - not much bigger, also did their share to throw it off. Balance would be very difficult to achieve. And from a business perspective, does very little other than create a small amount of satisfaction for people who ALREADY OWN points and make home resort advantage even LESS important. Balance forces Disney to make poor use of their resources - they have a small amount of land near the Y&BC - they can only build a small resort there or no resort at all - but they have a lot of land out by SSR, they can build a large resort.

After seven months it isn't SSR owners filling a resort - its DVC members. Once that seven months passes we are all equal. And each member added - whether they are a member at SSR or VAK or DVC-Steamboat will add to the number of members who may say "Oh, I'd like to try and snag a room at the Beach Club once that seven month window opens." It adds to the number of members who can rent their points to someone who wants to stay at the Beach Club.

DVC is a very flexible system, but the system works best for those that know how to work the system. If you get what you are looking for three months out or less - ANYWHERE, not just the "popular" resorts - you are lucky. The closer you get to your trip, the more availability is going to be "a room at SSR for two nights, a room at the BWV for a night, a room at OKW for two nights." DVC's flexibility means that sometimes you are going to get stuck at the end of the hall at BWV or out at The Corousel at SSR, or out back facing the road and far from the HH at OKW.

In order for dues to be as low as they are (and they aren't low) and for Disney to sell points at their price point (and keep their profit margin), the resorts are sold to operate at a very high occupancy. That means availaibity is going to be slim if you are making last minute arrangements. That means you are going to occational end up in a less than ideal room. If that works for you and is still a value - great, learn how to work the system so you get the best results, and take the results you can't work without whining - recognizing that someone needs to stay in the HC room when the resort is full and no one in a wheelchair needs it. If it isn't a value, I'm not feeling sorry for anyone whose owned BCV points for five years and wants to sell.

 

[PamOKW]

I'm sure there are many long time DVC owners who are having deja vu all over again.

The same complaints beng made against SSR were often made against OKW. Truth is, the larger resorts are always going to have more availability than the smaller resorts.

There are many people who love OKW and there are many people who love SSR. I find it hard to believe people would pay $15K+ to purchase something that they didn't at least "like".

The change in your ability to book on shorter notice may be real or it may just be your perception and/or "luck" when you call. My feeling is that the rental market plays a much bigger part in effecting availability. I think this is bolsterd by DVC finally stepping up and trying to put some controls in place for the rental market. Because BWV and BCV are visible from Epcot and MGM, they are an easier "sell" to people renting points to non-DVC folks. You also have to factor in that more BCV/BWV owners may be using non-DVC options and those points are being used by Disney to book rooms. In the past, it may have been that some of these rooms were never actually "sold" and were then released back into DVC use close to the date rather than be left empty. Travel and attendance at WDW are finally rebounding to the levels they were at pre-9/11 and Disney may be really selling these rooms (good for us if they are because it will reduce how many points we need for non-DVC options).

DVC is a very complicated systems of checks and balances and without all the info, we can only guess cause and effect. I just know that this arguement of one resort destroying the enjoyment of owners from another resort has been around since the day HHI was announced more than 10-15 years ago.

 

[Inkmahm]

I didn't vote because I've only been a DVC owner since early 2006. But I bought where I want to stay and I book at the 11 month mark, so I doubt SSR will affect me much in the long run.