Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[DLgal]

Which is most likely the case for 95% of Europe ;-) I don't think I have ever seen a real gun, besides from military men in France near famous landmarks.
Can't remember seeing a gun in real life in my own country.

I live here in the US, an am married to a Marine and I have also never seen a gun other than in a holster being worn by police or a security person. I have never seen an unholstered gun.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I've seen one report that said they were NOT filming when the shooting occurred.

It said they were trying to reposition the camera due to shifting light where they were shooting. Baldwin was supposed to cross-draw the gun (from left hip with right hand if he's right-handed), swing it across his body, but not fire. He was supposedly demonstrating that move for the director of photography to check the lighting, and the gun was fired.

If that scenario is what actually happened, it is way beyond careless.

He didn't need the gun for the demonstration ....definitely no need to pull the trigger.

I live here in the US, an am married to a Marine and I have also never seen a gun other than in a holster being worn by police or a security person. I have never seen an unholstered gun.

America's gun obsession is sickening.

It's really not uncommon especially in rural areas. They are used for hunting and protection...snakes or other wild animals. Also for store owners (and others) who often deal with large sums of cash.

 

[Sinder]

Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks for posting

I don't know if that is what happened, but it could be why it is being said that the gun "went off"

 

[mrodgers]

However, there are some who claim that Alec Baldwin is ultimately responsible because he didn't personally check the weapon. I that's a strange take because it's highly unusual for an actor to check a weapon that a supposed "expert" has already checked and handed straight to the actor.

If you watch me drop the magazine, check the magazine, rack the slide back, clear the chamber, and check the barrel and I put it back together and hand it to you, the very first thing you do is start at the beginning of my statement here and go through it all yourself. The person ultimately responsible is the person who's hand is holding the firearm period.

 

[DLgal]

He didn't need the gun for the demonstration....definitely no need to pull the trigger.




It's really not uncommon especially in rural areas. They are used for hunting and protection...snakes or other wild animals. Also for store owners (and others) who often deal with large sums of cash.

Well, I've never lived in a rural area, so there you go. I feel like that is the ONLY justification to own a gun...to protect yourself from wild animals. If I lived in the country and had no neighbors for miles, I'd probably have a shotgun.

 

[Sinder]

It's really not uncommon especially in rural areas. They are used for hunting and protection...snakes or other wild animals. Also for store owners (and others) who often deal with large sums of cash.

Or sport and competition, or just recreation.
There is plenty I could find sickening about America, however the freedom of being able to protect yourself, the freedom to feed yourself, and the freedom to enjoy a sport or recreation in a safe manner is not one of them. But to each their own, if you don't find those things necessary then exercise your own freedom to not participate.

 

[DLgal]

I’m not debating gun laws, I think my point is very clear. What I see is a lot of people without any knowledge of guns talking about common sense gun laws. Then something like this happens and those same people ignore the very idea that common sense says ANYONE handling a firearm is ultimately responsible for using it. They are responsible for checking to make sure it is safe to use, especially in an environment where other people could be injured or killed if you don’t.

I don’t care who the actor is, if they are using a gun in their profession then they should be required to know how to use it, which includes the common sense rules of “there’s no such thing as an unloaded gun” until you confirm for yourself that it is.

Not worth the points.

 

[lifesavacation]

If the set safety rules are such that an actor should be shown the gun is empty by the armorer, then Alec is responsible. As an actor, he didn’t follow the rules. I most definitely wouldn’t pull the trigger of any gun unless I knew 100% that it was empty. He’s also responsible as the producer for not ensuring all safety rules were followed on the set by the crew.

I’m comfortable around guns. My first job as a teen was at a gun club as the “pull” girl. What happened was absolutely avoidable and a failure by multiple people. I find the reports that use the word “misfired” really annoying. Guns don’t go off by themselves.

 

[Sinder]

Common Sense Gun LAWS does not equal Commion Sense Gun PRACTICES.

That is very true.

Had common sense (and responsible) gun practices been followed in this instance that woman would still be alive. There are plenty of people giving Mr. Baldwin a pass as they don't see a reason he should have been responsible for using a firearm. We've heard he's an actor, he has people doing that for him, it's not his job, he was told it was safe, he shouldn't be expected to know how a gun works........

 

[DLgal]

Or sport and competition, or just recreation.
There is plenty I could find sickening about America, however the freedom of being able to protect yourself, the freedom to feed yourself, and the freedom to enjoy a sport or recreation in a safe manner is not one of them. But to each their own, if you don't find those things necessary then exercise your own freedom to not participate.

Not worth the points.

 

[Sinder]

Let's not pretend that the gun problem here has anything to do with people who use them for sport, protection against wild animals, or hunting for food. Those are actual, legitimate reasons to own a firearm and no one is trying to take that away.

I never said they were, I was building on a response to your comment about America's obsession with guns.

I'm sure you are aware that we aren't allowed to talk about the gun problem here on this board.

 

[DLgal]

I never said they were, I was building on a response to your comment about America's obsession with guns.

I'm sure you are aware that we aren't allowed to talk about the gun problem here on this board.

Not worth the points.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

it could get into politics, and no politics on the boards.

Anyway regarding this particular occurrence, there appears to have been a general lack of competence on the set of this particular film. How that might work out into criminal liability for the producer (who in this case is also the person who discharged the firearm) isn't clear. Criminal liability requires intent, but could apply to egregious incidents of negligence, depends on New Mexico law. Civil liability, might be more likely.

 

[LYSE]

This whole thread is about a gun problem.

No it's about people kicking responsibility down the road until someone is dead and then continuing to blame others for their own failures.

Common theme in this country and really planet.

For the record I can understand how this can happen, and I understand that the way Hollywood works the actor may not be breaking protocol by not clearing a firearm, but that way of doing things is/was their problem.

 

[JimMIA]

If you watch me drop the magazine, check the magazine, rack the slide back, clear the chamber, and check the barrel and I put it back together and hand it to you, the very first thing you do is start at the beginning of my statement here and go through it all yourself. The person ultimately responsible is the person who's hand is holding the firearm period.

The gun used in the movie was a revolver, not a pistol, so the process would have been even easier.

Just swing the cylinder open showing an empty gun. Three people handled this gun and not one of them took that two seconds for safety.

 

[JimMIA]

This whole thread is about a gun problem.

Nope. The gun had NO problem. The gun performed flawlessly -- put bullets in, pul the trigger and the gun goes boom.

The people handling the gun and pulling the trigger killed the woman.

This is not a "gun problem." Guns do not wander around unattended shooting people. PEOPLE shoot people.

 

[Jennasis]

If the revolver should have had "blanks", would Alec Baldwin (or any actor) "swinging open the cylinder" been able to distinguish between a blank and a real bullet?

 

[lifesavacation]

If the revolver should have had "blanks", would Alec Baldwin (or any actor) "swinging open the cylinder" been able to distinguish between a blank and a real bullet?

My understanding of the situation is that there shouldn't have been anything in the gun since it was just a test shoot to figure out the lighting. So, yes, if someone would have checked the gun, they would have seen that it was loaded with either a blank or a bullet. It wouldn't have mattered if they can distinguish the type. Neither should have been used in the situation.

 

[Sinder]

This whole thread is about a gun problem.

No it is not. It is about a problem with people who clearly did not do their job, and people who are untrained in gun safety using a gun and what happens to others as a result.
People problem, not a gun problem at all.

Besides we all know what you meant and you know what we can’t discuss.

 

[bcla]

If the revolver should have had "blanks", would Alec Baldwin (or any actor) "swinging open the cylinder" been able to distinguish between a blank and a real bullet?

Not necessarily from just swinging it open. But it would depend on the type of blanks being used. Some are heavily crimped while others have a paper or wax cover over the case. Like these:

It would also depend on what was in there. A lot of these have dummy bullets to give it the appearance and heft of real ammo.