Air Force Chaplains continue to steal sheep

[cardaway]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/12/national/12airforce.html

That's right, they call it stealing sheep.

And if the practice wasn't sick enough, I saw a chaplain interviewed on TBN this morning that said he would, and others should, continue on despite whatever rules are put in place.

Perfect example of how bad things have got.

 

[bicker]

If the leaders of our armed forces have such bad judgement with something like this, it makes me fear for our nation's security.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

So Christians in the military are not allowed to fully practice their faith, which includes sharing what we believe with others? What this is an example of is the continued bashing of one group's beliefs in an overly aggressive effort to be more PC.

 

[bicker]

A military officer's right to practice their faith ends before it encounters another member of the military who has the right to not have their beliefs questioned.

 

[alabamaalan]

Wow, what's next? Will pastors in area churches send out letters or attempt to get unchurched people in their areas to come to their faith?

Where will it all end? Oh yeah, possibly with a few souls saved.

If there was a climate of promoting only those who were people of faith versus those who are not, then that is a legitimate concern. Otherwise, what does an athiest/agnostic care?

I would want a chaplain to be encouraged to share his faith unless the soldier says they are not interested. If the chaplain does not respect that, then it becomes a problem..but not before.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Ah yes... your rights trump my rights. In a world gone topsy-turvy, I suppose that makes sense.

 

[MizBlu]

A military officer's right to practice their faith ends before it encounters another member of the military who has the right to not have their beliefs questioned.

Well said.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I would want a chaplain to be encouraged to share his faith unless the soldier says they are not interested. If the chaplain does not respect that, then it becomes a problem..but not before.

Exactly. The chaplain should not be shackled by restrictions on his/her faith, whatever it may be. Conversely, other military personnel should be free to listen or not to listen as they so choose. There needs to be some level of mutual respect where both can co-exist.

 

[Briarmom]

Well, I don't know what this has to do with just 'officers.' Enlisted Air Force were not having the same problem? Maybe I have to re-read the story.

Anyway, dh is in the Air Force, and they have never bothered us. No one is trying to get us to go to church. No one is 'preaching' to us or anything. I've never heard of this 'sheep stealing'.

 

[eeyore kelly]

Sheep?! Reminds me of the mindless sheep in animal farm. Branded? Sick. The terminology they use is screwed up. What's bad is the terminology reflects they way they think and feel.

 

[alabamaalan]

Sheep?! Reminds me of the mindless sheep in animal farm. Branded? Sick. The terminology they use is screwed up. What's bad is the terminology reflects they way they think and feel.

Actually "sheep" is not meant as an insult; it is a common metaphor in Christianity. A pastor or church leader is often referred to as a shepherd after "the good shepherd"

So the phrase is more from the Bible than from Animal Farm, and used more for concern than mindlessness.

 

[bicker]

Ah yes... your rights trump my rights. In a world gone topsy-turvy, I suppose that makes sense.

Your beliefs apply to you -- what gets done to you, if you wish. Your beliefs provide you no rights to do anything to anyone else. A military chaplain that doesn't grant soldiers that much respect is a disgrace to the uniform.

 

[cardaway]

So Christians in the military are not allowed to fully practice their faith, which includes sharing what we believe with others?

They were going much further than that, or did you skip the parts where they described actions that went far beyond sharing?

People who believe that actions like that are acceptable are part of the problem.

Under no conditions is harassment acceptable and it's quite telling that this practice is only a problem with Christian evangelists.

 

[DisDuck]

So Tigger by your comments can I assume that it would be OK for a Jewish Chaplain to go over to 'anyone' and ask them if not affiliated to convert?

By the way, define non-affiliated for me anyone? Does it mean not a member of a particular church/synagogue or does it mean not a follower of a particular religion? You see Jews are required to 'join' a synagogue. One can be a practicing Jew without membership. So does that qualify as non-affiliated?

Since the Armed Services are a government entity then does not separation of church/state come into play? If so then while chaplains may offer services to anyone without 'stealing sheep' any 'stealing of sheep' would be a violation of the Establishment Clause.

 

[cardaway]

I would want a chaplain to be encouraged to share his faith unless the soldier says they are not interested. If the chaplain does not respect that, then it becomes a problem..but not before.

Which is exactly what was going on here, a complete and total lack of respect.

But it's basically par for the course these days inclusing fellow sheep encouraging the harassment of members of other religions.

 

[MizBlu]

They were going much further than that, or did you skip the parts where they described actions that went far beyond sharing?

People who believe that actions like that are acceptable are part of the problem.

Under no conditions is harassment acceptable and it's quite telling that this practice is only a problem with Christian evangelists.

I'm glad someone noticed you never seem to hear something like this about Jewish rabbis.

 

[alabamaalan]

But it's basically par for the course these days inclusing fellow sheep encouraging the harassment of members of other religions.

I don't see that in the article. It said that chaplains are NOT allowed to evangelize to persons of other religions. Nor did I see where they went "way beyond"

There may be a legitimate complaint, I just don't see it specified in the article.

 

[Rajah]

I'm all for allowing them to evangelize (whether Christian, Muslem, Jewish, or "WorshiperOfTheGreatCosmicCow" (yes, made-up), I don't care) to those who don't have a faith, up to the point that the person says they're not interested.

After that, if they don't stop, then it's a problem. And this is my feeling no matter where they are. Military, work, everyday life, whatever.

 

[bicker]

I'm glad someone noticed you never seem to hear something like this about Jewish rabbis.

Respect for others is a fundamental principle of the Jewish faith.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

So Tigger by your comments can I assume that it would be OK for a Jewish Chaplain to go over to 'anyone' and ask them if not affiliated to convert?

As I indicated earlier, I have no problem with anyone practicing his/her faith. Alabamaalan said it perfectly

I would want a chaplain to be encouraged to share his faith unless the soldier says they are not interested. If the chaplain does not respect that, then it becomes a problem..but not before.