Ah, yes, the proverbial *stuff* has hit the fan!

[minkydog]

Now this is just getting fantastic!!! Joey has unique empty Liquor Bottles in his room! My goodness - they could get a snazzy display case for these artifacts!

And Game Informer magazines??? They could fill their jobless days reading up on the video games they will be playing on one of those TV's.

Please tell me your son plays Call of Duty or UFC on XBox!!! I am talking a complete "BROmance" if this is the case!

OMG We should hook them up! John was just complaining the other day that *I* have lost his Call of Duty DVD and now he can't "talk to his friends anymore." I did not lose the DVD, I gathered it up with the rest of the CDs/DVDs that were scattered hither and yon and put them all in a box in the basement.

Yeah -- you did the right thing! I think your DD will learn from this that as adults, everyone is expected to do certain things. You DS will have to clean up wherever he ends up living. He will have to get a job and pay for Word of Warcraft if he wants it (and internet access, and for his cell phone, and for his car's gas, insurance, upkeep, etc., etc.) This is called the "school of hard knocks" and he will end up being a mature man because of it. If you give in, you'll have a 30 year old boy living with you and still acting the same way he is now. Stand your ground.

-Dorothy (LadyZolt) (who kicked out her marijuana-smoking DS20 last year so he could learn that if he can afford pot, he can afford rent, food, internet, cell phone, etc., and that if he wants his parents to help him at all, he has to be clean, sober and enrolled full-time at an accredited school)

I like the School of Hard Knocks. Its the only school that has ever made a dent in John's perception of things. I don't know how in the world he developed this sense of entitlement. Certainly DH & I are not like that--we've worked hard for everything we ever had. DD16 is not like that--she's been working actively since 2nd grade to make her dreams of musical theater performance become a reality.

DH had an uncle who was like this.None of the other sibs were like that, all of them were hard-working. That man lived off his mother until she died at the age of 97(he was 57!), took money out of her accounts, got her to buy him "toys", houses,food, etc. even though he was the fire chief of a good-sized city! WTH?? We are not going there!

It seems so good to hear that people still do understand what parenting is. It is hard. I was starting to feel that the entitlement craze was complete and no one was teaching their children to take care of themselves anymore.

I have to admit, we dropped the ball somewhere between Christmas and August. Up until then John had been working full-time and paying rent, doing his chores and contributing to the household. He lost his job in Feb due to the company folding. We let him live rent-free at that time because he hadn't starting getting unemployment. Unfortunately, during that time I also suffered a major health crisis and it sort of took our eyes away from what was going on with John. When the unemployment came in, we just never got around to asking for rent and we let everything else slide, too. Totally our fault. I do believe that John is depressed, but he has refused our efforts to help him seek treatment. Refuses to consider taking meds. I can't force help on an adult that won't receive it, but I sure as heck don't have to put up with the drama!

This is not the first time John has moved out. He's gone twice before, but came back when he started not liking his living arrangements. This time I think the free ride is shut down. I've always said that my kids could live with me as long as they are a productive member of the family, working, going to school full-time. When you start detracting from the harmony of our home, it's time to go. I hope that when he's grown and has children of his own he'll recognize that moving out was the best thing.

 

[DizBelle]

GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!

Please don't give in. It won't do anybody any good.

 

[lillygator]

good for you - stand your ground. It will be the best thing for him as well as you guys.

 

[lil mermaid]

He took off in his truck? Just curious, who pays for the truck and the insurance?

 

[dismom2]

Good for you
Actions speak louder than words, and this will be a good eye-opener for him. Don't let yourself feel guilty at any point.
Just wondering, who pays for his gas? You should tell him that you will only pay for his gas as long as he is actively looking for a job;otherwise, he should ride a bike

 

[LadyZolt]

That man lived off his mother until she died at the age of 97(he was 57!), took money out of her accounts, got her to buy him "toys", houses,food, etc. even though he was the fire chief of a good-sized city! WTH?? We are not going there!

DH and I met a guy in his early 50's waiting for an attraction at Disney World and got to talking and he said his son -- 30 years old! -- kept making bad investments and the dad kept having to give him money (thousands of dollars) to bail him out. I said, "Well, you know -- the more money you give him, the more money you will give him." The guy looked at me and his eyes told me he knew exactly what I was saying. Yet his "love" for his son seemed to make him unable to do what was the best thing for that kid and that's let the kid (really, total adult at 30!) make mistakes and learn from them. Eventually, this dad is going to die and once that child rips through all the inheritance money, then he'll be a middle-aged boy (or older, even) who is just then learning how to deal with life. Sad!!

I totally understand what you were saying about getting sidetracked and how you were saying that you dropped the ball there -- but really, your DS isn't 12 and he should have offered to kick in some of his unemployment for the rent. And like you said, even if you know he's depressed, all you can do is try to help or recommend some place where he can get help. You can't make him do it. He's an adult and he has to figure it out. Now's the time and he will learn to deal with consequences, and he will mature through the process. Hang in there!

-Dorothy (LadyZolt)

 

[shortbun]

Well, I think you've succeeded in letting your kids know you mean business. I agree that your son sounds depressed, too bad he didn't take your offer for help. Maybe he's depressed because he's been sitting around all day and playing video games all night. Don't forget to let the kids who ARE living up to their end of the bargain know that you are aware of their compliance and keep up the good work.

 

[MushyMushy]

Is this the son who has had all kinds of behavioral/mental issues? It can be so hard to know when to let go with them and let them sink or swim on their own and I really applaud you for doing this.

I suspect we'll be having to be a bit more forceful with my son in the near future. His problem is that he is just having such a hard time adjusting after graduation (he's always had an adjustment disorder, as well as ADHD, ODD & bipolar). His friends had all dropped out of school, but then his girlfriend has gone to college (in the same town). I'm hoping that he eventually decides to at least go to a trade school, but right now he's stagnating. Where we live there are just no jobs! I know for a fact he's applying for them (I helped him do the online ones just to be sure ). If he doesn't find even a fast food job soon, I want him to go to school. I really didn't mind him taking the summer off, but summer's over. Time to move forward.

Good luck with this! I'll be keeping an eye out to see how you're doing.

 

[Planogirl]

Hopefully he'll come to his senses now.

My case wasn't as extreme as yours but my mother and I kept butting heads when I was about 18 and living at home. I had a job and didn't want to go to college. She wanted me to follow certain rules and I didn't want to so I left home.

It was a good things because I went to college and became a responsible adult. My point is that leaving home in this way can be a very good thing for some people.

 

[minkydog]

He took off in his truck? Just curious, who pays for the truck and the insurance?

Good for you

Just wondering, who pays for his gas? You should tell him that you will only pay for his gas as long as he is actively looking for a job;otherwise, he should ride a bike

His truck is paid for and he pays for his own insurance, gas, and speeding tickets.

Well, I think you've succeeded in letting your kids know you mean business. I agree that your son sounds depressed, too bad he didn't take your offer for help. Maybe he's depressed because he's been sitting around all day and playing video games all night. Don't forget to let the kids who ARE living up to their end of the bargain know that you are aware of their compliance and keep up the good work.

I'm sure the video games are NOT helping. He isolates himself with the online games. John does go out with friends and this has been a bone of contention with me. If he has money to buy liquor, energy drinks, wings and sushi, then by God, he has money for rent. But of course, he doesn't want to pay rent because he's not working. And he resents it when we ask him to do things around the house, like rake, mow, paint, clean. He was very put out that we requested that he and Eric remove two rooms of carpet and didn't pay them. I told him his payment was that he gets to live in our house for the rest of the month. that was not the answer he was looking for...

I have made sure to tell the other kids that I appreciate their work ethic. I feel bad for Eric--he's John's friend. He knows if he leaves he will be back on the street, sleeping in his car. His father has made it clear that he's on his own. I have made sure to encourage him in his school work and he's so proud to show us his papers and tests with all As. But it was awkward last night when John left in a huff but Eric chose to stay.

 

[dismom2]

His truck is paid for and he pays for his own insurance, gas, and speeding tickets.



I'm sure the video games are NOT helping. He isolates himself with the online games. John does go out with friends and this has been a bone of contention with me. If he has money to buy liquor, energy drinks, wings and sushi, then by God, he has money for rent. But of course, he doesn't want to pay rent because he's not working. And he resents it when we ask him to do things around the house, like rake, mow, paint, clean. He was very put out that we requested that he and Eric remove two rooms of carpet and didn't pay them. I told him his payment was that he gets to live in our house for the rest of the month. that was not the answer he was looking for...

I have made sure to tell the other kids that I appreciate their work ethic. I feel bad for Eric--he's John's friend. He knows if he leaves he will be back on the street, sleeping in his car. His father has made it clear that he's on his own. I have made sure to encourage him in his school work and he's so proud to show us his papers and tests with all As. But it was awkward last night when John left in a huff but Eric chose to stay.

Just curious-- where does he get the money to pay for truck insurance, gas, speeding tickets, liquor, energy drinks, and eating out if he doesn't have a job?

 

[goofyernmost]

I didn't go all the way back, but I think she said that he gets an unemployment check.

 

[minkydog]

Just curious-- where does he get the money to pay for truck insurance, gas, speeding tickets, liquor, energy drinks, and eating out if he doesn't have a job?

unemployment. And a little savings. He sure as heck isn't getting hand-outs from us. We haven't funded his recreation since he turned 18, except for a few times when we did family things and chose to pay for his tickets, etc. That's what irks me--if he's got money to do all that, he should be paying rent. And it irritates me that I even have to tell him that. He thinks he should be able to live in the basement of "his" house, do no housework because "it's not my house", pay nothing toward expenses, and eat all her wants for free. I told him that if he could find a better situation where he can live by his own rules, have no chores, eat all he wants and live for free, go for it! It won't hurt my feelings at all!

 

[Chris2597]

We have been dealing with similiar issues with our ds23. He has worked part time jobs on and off since HS grad, gone to a semester of college, but dropped his classes. So when you play tough love where do they go if they have no money? Most of his friends are in the same situation....living with parents that are not happy with the situation....I guess when you make the decision to do TL you need to be ready to face the possible consequences of putting the adult child out. We are really struggling with this.

 

[LadyZolt]

So when you play tough love where do they go if they have no money?

They can room with friends -- my eldest DS when he was 18 got an apartment with three other young men all earning minimum wage and when one of them was out of work, the others were able to still make the rent. They can join the military (that's what I did when I was 18, and my DH, too). They can join some other organization. They can backpack through Europe and wash dishes for money. They are adults and they can figure it out on their own. If their parents are willing to let them live in their house under set conditions (like be working full time, looking for work full time, or going to school full time, etc.), they can also abide by those rules and their parents will let them live with them. The choice is all theirs because they are adults.

-Dorothy (LadyZolt)

 

[jlima]

We have been dealing with similiar issues with our ds23. He has worked part time jobs on and off since HS grad, gone to a semester of college, but dropped his classes. So when you play tough love where do they go if they have no money? Most of his friends are in the same situation....living with parents that are not happy with the situation....I guess when you make the decision to do TL you need to be ready to face the possible consequences of putting the adult child out. We are really struggling with this.

Give him an exit plan . . . tell him he has ___ months to find another living situation; and tell him the steps he need to take to get there; i.e., apply for 3 - 5 jobs a week, enroll in community college, join the military, start a business; etc; and he has to make an honest effort himself, because you can't do it for him. His job needs to be to find a job. Listings on Craigs List, your local paper, websites for major employers where you live, including local governments, local universities - make him try. Is there a Goodwill in your area? They may be able to offer some kind of job training, like teaching him to run a cash register or how to drive a forklift. Maybe do some research for him, but he needs to make a effort and have some ambition to be on his own.

I've already told DS15 that he get 6 months after college graduation and he's on his own. If he has to sleep on someone's couch I probably won't be happy, but I wouldn't be happy enabling him to be a mooch, either.

 

[BelleWDW]

unemployment. !

Doesn't that come to an end soon-I think you said he started getting it in February. I think the video games can be VERY addicting and personality changing when done to excess.

 

[MushyMushy]

We have been dealing with similiar issues with our ds23. He has worked part time jobs on and off since HS grad, gone to a semester of college, but dropped his classes. So when you play tough love where do they go if they have no money? Most of his friends are in the same situation....living with parents that are not happy with the situation....I guess when you make the decision to do TL you need to be ready to face the possible consequences of putting the adult child out. We are really struggling with this.

I think they can be pretty resourceful in finding places to go. Friends, even relatives... I know my dad would take my son in a heartbeat and fund him a whole lot better than we do.

I like the idea of coming up with an exit plan.

 

[mom2rb]

My dad kicked me out when I was 20. I had lived on my own for a year and moved back for a year and a half. I deserved it, I was a little brat.

My dad gave me 10 days to get out, I was a waitress so I could make the cash. I still remember the reason my dad gave me that would allow me to move home.

He said " Baby if you get married and have children and your husband leaves you, my grandbabies will always be welcome in my home. Other than that DON'T EVEN ASK."

This was the best thing my dad ever did for me.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Although I haven't had to deal with this...I think you and your DH did the right thing....
Children, (Adult children especially) need to have respect for the things their parents do for them, seems your son had neither that or appreciation. I bet he'll appreciate more now!!