After reading hundreds of posts about FP+.....

[JimmyV]

The only way that would allow everyone to do it exactly the same way would be no FP at all and everyone waits in lines. The lines would move quicker than currently as there would be no FP. But I guess no-one wants no FP.

Giving everyone too many FP+ would also give this sort of situation where there are too many people with FP+ and then either the popular slots go quickly or there are too many in FP lines and standby will not move!

You are exactly right. Disney created a beast that it will have difficulty controlling. If the concept of a FP did not exist, and instead Disney implemented a new system whereby everyone who bought admission to the parks could choose to skip the lines at any 3 rides per day, but no more, and even if Disney limited that perk to one park per day, people would look upon that feature as a "gift" and you have few if any of the complaints that we see now. And even if they prohibited you from skipping the line if the "skip the line" wait was 30+ minutes so as not to overcrowd that line, people would still take it in stride. In a sense, Disney would be rewarding everyone equally for doing nothing more than buying a ticket to get in the park. But by implementing the FP system the way they did, Disney rewarded vigilance, and not merely the act of paying for a ticket. Disney will continue to have a difficult time explaining that vigilance is not the character trait that deserves the reward, especially when the entire act of planning a WDW vacation requires quite of bit of that. And you are correct that bumping up the number of FPs too much will bog down the system.

 

[ks-man]

I'm one of the RD people who would get several sets of FP-. I'm not in the "I don't like anything FP+" camp, but I do have, what I consider very valid issues with FP+. I don't mind the MB themselves, it seems like it would be a little more convenient to have everything at the ready when needed. My major problem is that Disney is requiring me to tour their way instead of mine. We all pay huge costs to go and enjoy DW, and I feel like they've taken the way WE like to see the world and turned it into, here is how you have to do it now! For example, we like to ride RnR, ToT, TSM, TT, all the top rides multiple times. We would arrive early, ride a couple of headliners, get FP- at the appropriate times, ride the less popular rides to pass the time, and use our FP- when our time came around. What Disney is saying to us now is, you can only have a FP+ for one of your favorites (tiers) and then you'll have to wait in line if you want to ride again. We're also only going to let you have 3 FP+, and even though you're going to give us extra money to park hop, you can't have any FP+ for the park you're hopping to.

I realize that this system is more desirable for those folks who like to sleep in, but that's their choice, just as mine is to arrive early so that I can ride my favorite rides multiple times. I would be fine with this system if they'd only up the number of FP+ you're allowed, even if only by 1, remove the tiers!!!!!, and let the people who pay the extra to PH or have AP, have the option of getting FP+ at multiple parks.

I did write a letter politely stating, what we like and what will drastically change our vacation experience. A Disney rep called and talked to me for more than 15 minutes. She stated that she was hearing the exact same thing over and over again, and that Disney is seriously considering altering some of the rules they currently have. FP+ is here to stay, but with a few changes, I think it will be helpful to everyone's style of touring the parks. Just my take....

I agree that no park hopping doesn't make sense and I don't see how it changes anything with respect to steadying the flow of people. My only guess is that it gets into the tiering issue but in my mind if you limit people to 3 FP+ it shouldn't matter if all three are from the same park or one from each park. Everything we're hearing is that this is likely to change.

I think most people here loved FP- b/c it gave them an advantage to all the people who didn't know about it/didn't understand how to use it. Disney is not telling anybody that you can't ride multiple times or ride more than one headliner. They are simply stating that you must wait in the standby line. People here don't want to wait in that line and are failing to recognize that thousands of people are already doing that (that's why those lines are long).

In my mind this boils down to people around here saying that they shouldn't have to wait in those lines to ride headliners and don't want the playing field leveled. I just hear this as a childish remark as all people in the Disney parks are paying customers. If you RD you can still ride many rides early in the morning w/o waits (that is the benefit of getting up early, you have those hours that the park is less crowded). If you choose not to wait in a SB line then that is your choice just like the person who slept in is choosing to miss that first hour or two. Disney clearly saw a reason to change the rules based on feedback/wait times and people around here just can't come to terms that the new system is more fair to all Disney guests at the expense of the superuser. It is entirely possible that some superusers won't see the benefit of Disney anymore as compared to other vacations now that they can't ride as much as they were accustomed to and I'd guess that Disney park management understood those possible implications.

Now as to the limits of 3/day and only 1 headliner, this again gets to a capacity issue and my guess is that Disney swung it too far the other way. They went from being too accomodative to FP- users to too restrictive to FP+ users. They probably didn't want (while also working out the bugs) to allow too many people into FP+ queues. This will be easy to change if Disney determines that there is more capacity in the FP+ queue than is being used.

I agree that 4/day is nicer than 3/day and that no tiering would be better than tiering but I wouldn't want those limits changed if it meant that my FP+ for the headliner went from 10 mins to 30 mins. I'd probably be willing to accept it for a 15 minute wait. However, we have no idea what the impact would be. I also think there should be a balance between pre-reserving FP+ and some dedicated to day of in the park allowances similar to the old system.

I'm confident that the Disney FP+ in one year will be slightly different than today (the rules) and I understand the people who says that it doesn't matter to them as they're trip is next month. But Disney is a corporation and must look at the big picture and what the experience will be for months and years to come. If this experiment leads to less interest in the park and warrants a lower price (or more incentives) during the experimental stage than supply and demand will cause that to occur. Considering that all of this arises from the fact that Disney continues to struggle with over capacity I just don't see that happening.

 

[ks-man]

You are exactly right. Disney created a beast that it will have difficulty controlling. If the concept of a FP did not exist, and instead Disney implemented a new system whereby everyone who bought admission to the parks could choose to skip the lines at any 3 rides per day, but no more, and even if Disney limited that perk to one park per day, people would look upon that feature as a "gift" and you have few if any of the complaints that we see now. And even if they prohibited you from skipping the line if the "skip the line" wait was 30+ minutes so as not to overcrowd that line, people would still take it in stride. In a sense, Disney would be rewarding everyone equally for doing nothing more than buying a ticket to get in the park. But by implementing the FP system the way they did, Disney rewarded vigilance, and not merely the act of paying for a ticket. Disney will continue to have a difficult time explaining that vigilance is not the character trait that deserves the reward, especially when the entire act of planning a WDW vacation requires quite of bit of that. And you are correct that bumping up the number of FPs too much will bog down the system.

Well said, look at it another way. What if Disney simply rewarded the highest paying customers vs. vigilence and offered priority line access, fastpasses etc. to those willing to pay the most for it. I'm sure people around here would go crazy. Disney is trying to say that all people are equals regardless if they will pay more, rise early, know the system etc.

 

[JimmyV]

Disney is trying to say that all people are equals regardless if they will pay more, rise early, know the system etc.

Yup. That's it in a nutshell. And when you want to make everyone "equal", you either have to raise the lower level up to meet the higher level, which is usually impossible; lower the higher level down to meet the lower level, which is rarely tolerated; or try to have the low levels meet somewhere in between which causes hard feelings or worse. But this is usually the best option. The difficulty comes in figuring out where hard feelings end and violent revolution begins. And that is a sliding scale for every individual.

Edit to add: I do think the day will come (perhaps when off site guests can pre-book), when vigilance will again be rewarded. Just as ADRs (or Priority Seating) used to be made 30 days out. And then it was 60. And then it was 90. Then it was 180. And now it is 180+10. People had a hard time believing that you would have to set your alarm clock to get on the computer before the roosters crowed to get an ADR. But that is indeed the case for certain restaurants. As FP+ becomes more widely understood, vigilance will be rewarded in trying to get FP+s for the Mine Coaster and TSM. Just watch and see. The days of "All Fast Passes have been distributed for this attraction" are coming. Never say never.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

You are exactly right. Disney created a beast that it will have difficulty controlling. If the concept of a FP did not exist, and instead Disney implemented a new system whereby everyone who bought admission to the parks could choose to skip the lines at any 3 rides per day, but no more, and even if Disney limited that perk to one park per day, people would look upon that feature as a "gift" and you have few if any of the complaints that we see now. And even if they prohibited you from skipping the line if the "skip the line" wait was 30+ minutes so as not to overcrowd that line, people would still take it in stride. In a sense, Disney would be rewarding everyone equally for doing nothing more than buying a ticket to get in the park. But by implementing the FP system the way they did, Disney rewarded vigilance, and not merely the act of paying for a ticket. Disney will continue to have a difficult time explaining that vigilance is not the character trait that deserves the reward, especially when the entire act of planning a WDW vacation requires quite of bit of that. And you are correct that bumping up the number of FPs too much will bog down the system.

Being rewarded for vigilance that came naturally to me -- researching, planning, waking up early and hitting the ground "running," making smart decisions on the fly to adjust for weather and moody kids, sending my hyper DH for FP when the kids were dawdling -- was an addictive drug. The reward was a better time for me and for my grateful family who were impressed with my awesomeness. Disney got me hooked and then took my drug away. Not all was FP related -- there was also the Dumbo dash!

Okay, there are other things I love about Disney, but it was nice to combine childlike whimsy with being rewarded for old-fashioned hard work and intelligence. (Plus Robo's maps...even though I still walked the wrong way for a few seconds the first time at DHS RD after TSMM opened....happy memories... )

 

[ciera321]

But with old FastPass (FP-) you were still touring Disney's way, you had to go to the attraction entrance, get the FP- and return.

The only way that would allow everyone to do it exactly the same way would be no FP at all and everyone waits in lines. The lines would move quicker than currently as there would be no FP. But I guess no-one wants no FP.

Giving everyone too many FP+ would also give this sort of situation where there are too many people with FP+ and then either the popular slots go quickly or there are too many in FP lines and standby will not move!

Anything kind of FP system will have some restrictions on it, I simply feel that there are way too many with the FP+. And I don't mind being the FP- runner, I can eat more Mickey Bars that way.....

 

[southlakejr]

Lot of fantastic points on both sides! Thanks for such level headed views!

I have never been to WDW, but have been to DL over 30 times in the last few years. Here's my take on how it will affect us:

The good:
*I can plan my days a little better- I can pick my park based on FP availability and times, and coordinate with ADRs.
*I can still ride a headliner on arrival day if I don't get there at RD
*I can enter the parks for the very first time and just enjoy everything, instead of having to immediately run to a FP machine to get TSMM.

(I see a lot of advantages to the MB- but most of those are separate from FP+)

The bad:
*Tiering sucks, period. If they did it at DL it would be awful (though I think DL has more headliners than an individual WDW park like MK, AK, etc. JMHO)
* No hopping (would be AWFUL if they implemented at DL and DCA)
* 3 seems really stingy
* I HAVE to plan my vacation more. I'm used to a much more go with the flow pace at DL, so I think this is just an overall adjustment for me. ADRs, FP+, more space between the parks making hopping more difficult- all of them are adjustments to WDW that require a lot more planning than I am used to, or really that thrilled about.

I think Disney is adjusting this. And there are certainly things that suck, but I am also very intrigued by the possibilities that can come out of this. Just the perspective of a newbie visiting the parks.

 

[Love Tink]

Being rewarded for vigilance that came naturally to me -- researching, planning, waking up early and hitting the ground "running," making smart decisions on the fly to adjust for weather and moody kids, sending my hyper DH for FP when the kids were dawdling -- was an addictive drug.

I haven't seen it put quite like this before. I think you've summed up one of the reasons some people are reacting poorly to FP+ even if they haven't used it yet.

Those of us who have been to WDW a lot, and who like to plan, had become experts in navigating the ins and outs of a visit. The FP changes make a lot of our knowledge and experience obsolete (you don't need to try it to know that). The challenge of "maximizing" a day made me feel good and made me a hero to my kids - I'm sad those days are over.

 

[redrosesix]

Regarding FP+, here's one...

You can sleep in on your DHS day and still get to FP TSM.

Management has already stated to multiple people that there will be significant changes made to the system (regarding hopping, for example). It hasn't even been fully rolled out for a month yet. The final product will likely be much different. Personally, I loved using the system, but I do hope they make some changes. I think it has the potential to be great. It just needs time to be implemented to its fullest potential. Hopefully guest feedback will get it headed in the right direction.

Magic Bands are the best part of the whole My Magic+ initiative. So much easier than messing with cards. We loved the ease of use, and we really never noticed we were wearing them, until we took them off.

This is true only if you plan to just do your fp'd rides. Now, more than ever, you need to be at RD, and am EMH to do any other tier 1 rides. Unless you plan to spend 90 minutes in line.

Only people who haven't used fp recently, and I mean very recently, think that you get to sleep in because of fp+

 

[redrosesix]

How is it an advantage?? YOU CAN SLEEP IN. How was that not clear? We are not morning people, and Disney trips can be exhausting. The ability to not have to hit rope drop is a huge plus for many. I've seen several people state that they will finally get to see what TSM is about because they could never get there before FPs were gone for the day, and weren't going to stand in long standby lines. Is that their own fault? Absolutely! That doesn't discount the fact that this new system does benefit them. As with any change, someone wins and someone loses. There is no perfect system. Disney has done their research, and they are collecting data. They will make the changes they deem necessary as the system continues to roll out. Today's system is not the final product.

Well you're right about TSMM -- but only about that ride. We have been able to get fp's for Soarin at dinner time... on Pres Day. So truthfully you're saying it was worth changing the whole fp system for one ride?

Most people we have talked to since arriving in wdw felt like us -- a little worried about how it would work but hopeful it would work for us. The reality is that it doesn't work at all well in practice unless you are willing to wait around for each fp return time, book no ADRs and don't make any changes while in the parks. FP+ does not exist within a vacuum -- the system working well is dependent upon buses and ADR's being on time and wifi working in the parks. And then all the other little things that can go wrong, like your kid just not feeling like doing a ride at that particular moment.

Selecting your fp's isn't really about knowing what your family wants to do 60 days out -- in practice you should be trying to guess what every other family wants to do 60 days out. There were many instances yesterday where the fp+ return line was much longer than the SB line, and others where you didn't need them. But because of wifi issues you couldn't change them without running to a kiosk. We ended up spending more time criss crossing the park because we had to make changes to one fp than we would have ever done with fp-. So don't kid yourself -- it's not the same as fp- but better. It's a totally different system and doesn't do the same thing at all. It's like they took away the fp- system but gave you a completely different perk.

We're going to be missing TSMM this trip because of FP+ but that's ok -- we have 3 days at US next week now so I think we'll get over it.

 

[JimmyV]

Now, more than ever, you need to be at RD, and am EMH to do any other tier 1 rides. Unless you plan to spend 90 minutes in line.

Careful. I tried to make the same point yesterday and people jumped all over this "prediction" and conclusion. Frankly, it seems rather intuitive to me. Arrive at Epcot at 11:00 and the line for TT will be 75 minutes and the line for Soarin' will be 90 minutes. If you only have a FP+ for one of them, guess what?? Sure, your FP+ will make you feel like a hero as you stroll on up to Soarin'. But after you exit, then what? But since you are there now and experiencing this in real time (as opposed to "predictions"), I will let you take the heat from here on out!

 

[smitch425]

Well you're right about TSMM -- but only about that ride. We have been able to get fp's for Soarin at dinner time... on Pres Day. So truthfully you're saying it was worth changing the whole fp system for one ride?

Most people we have talked to since arriving in wdw felt like us -- a little worried about how it would work but hopeful it would work for us. The reality is that it doesn't work at all well in practice unless you are willing to wait around for each fp return time, book no ADRs and don't make any changes while in the parks. FP+ does not exist within a vacuum -- the system working well is dependent upon buses and ADR's being on time and wifi working in the parks. And then all the other little things that can go wrong, like your kid just not feeling like doing a ride at that particular moment.

We're going to be missing TSMM this trip because of FP+ but that's ok -- we have 3 days at US next week now so I think we'll get over it.

No, that is not what I am saying. My original post was made to someone looking for "one good thing" about the system. I responded with sleeping in and getting to FP TSM. Someone else asked me why that was an advantage, so I responded to them.

 

[rastuso]

Just wondering how the people who are so angry over the change to FP+ and the limitations are responding to rumors today that they're testing removing the limits. What I read is that after you've used your three pre-scheduled ones you'll be able to schedule more. Seems to make sense. Here's the link http://*************************/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1411802#p1411802

OOPS, didn't work. Anyway, it's Theme Park Reviews

Ha, you tried to link to the site that shall not be named. Their evil overlord even said today, in BIG bold letters "I told you so", after the Screamscape article was printed. He's 1 million percent pro FP+, to the point of it likely being a quid pro quo of some sort. He's been deleting anti FP+ posts for over a year, and then this glitch led him to say he was right all along about how wonderful FP+ is.

I'm sure that post will be removed and its existence denied soon.

-Jason

 

[redrosesix]

Careful. I tried to make the same point yesterday and people jumped all over this "prediction" and conclusion. Frankly, it seems rather intuitive to me. Arrive at Epcot at 11:00 and the line for TT will be 75 minutes and the line for Soarin' will be 90 minutes. If you only have a FP+ for one of them, guess what?? Sure, your FP+ will make you feel like a hero as you stroll on up to Soarin'. But after you exit, then what? But since you are there now and experiencing this in real time (as opposed to "predictions"), I will let you take the heat from here on out!

I can take it. We were at AK yesterday for am EMH - by 9:15 the swarms of people had entered the parks and we saw the numbers roll up pretty quickly for the SB lines. Like always. Why do people think that because everyone now has FP+ they won't be doing other rides SB? Of course other people want to ride other rides too.

And then there is the issue with how they're integrating the lines. Once somebody makes it through the 2 fp checkpoints, they jump ahead of everyone in the SB line. They don't add a few fp holders in here and there like they did with the only fp system. So you really don't know how long the SB line is (and I overheard somebody talking, saying they were pretty sure they were overestimating SB to account for this -- I think they're right).

OT but if you go, don't line up for your return time as soon as it starts -- it seems like everyone does that. So when we were entering Safari SB (then 15 minutes) at 10 am we overheard a CM telling somebody at the first checkpoint for fp+ that they only had a 20 minute wait til the next checkpoint. After they had been standing in the first line with about another 50 people. It looked the same everywhere else we went on the hour. But when we went to POTC half way through our return time we were the only ones in line. Wasted fp though -- SB was only 5 minutes but wifi was down so we couldn't change ours.

 

[Seeker615]

The worst thing is the tiering. It is making rides that never had long lines now have longer waits. I have never ever waited in a long line for Pirates or IASM or Haunted Mansion. Now the lines are longer and this is not a good thing.

There has to be a way to modify this system. It's creating lines where there was none before.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I haven't seen it put quite like this before. I think you've summed up one of the reasons some people are reacting poorly to FP+ even if they haven't used it yet.

Those of us who have been to WDW a lot, and who like to plan, had become experts in navigating the ins and outs of a visit. The FP changes make a lot of our knowledge and experience obsolete (you don't need to try it to know that). The challenge of "maximizing" a day made me feel good and made me a hero to my kids - I'm sad those days are over.

I can come with lots of excellent reasons why FP+ won't work as well as FP- did for my family (e.g. my DS doesn't know a day ahead whether he can handle a coaster, meeting up w/ the in-laws at the last minute, etc.) and a list of complaints about the current limits (tiers, 3 at MK). I can also name a situation or two in which FP+ would have benefited us. But, the part that makes me actually feel sad is the loss of feeling like a (smart, hardworking) hero because I knew how to work FP- to my family's advantage.

Edited to add: It was not about experience so much as preparation and effort. Our friends on their first visit used many more FP in one day than we ever have because they were extremely determined to maximize their money.

 

[ks-man]

The worst thing is the tiering. It is making rides that never had long lines now have longer waits. I have never ever waited in a long line for Pirates or IASM or Haunted Mansion. Now the lines are longer and this is not a good thing.

There has to be a way to modify this system. It's creating lines where there was none before.

I just don't see how this is possible unless it is taking people away from other attractions shortening the lines there. If somebody is now in a FP+ for Pirates making the SB line longer, well that person had to be somewhere before FP+.

The only way the math works is that more people are using FP+ that didn't use FP-. This is a positive for Disney as it is leveling the playing field. It also would imply that the SB lines for headliners should be shorter as these uniformed prior guests who used to spend all of their time in SB headliner lines are now elsewhere (in your example the Pirates FB+ line or standby line).

If there were 50k people in the MK before FP+ and now there are the same 50k people in the MK after FP+ I don't see how the Pirates, IASW and other rides could have longer lines without other attractions having shorter ones.

I really think there are two main forces at play here. The first (as has been discussed) is that more people will start using FP+ who never used FP- and the second is that the parks in general are more crowded as evidenced by Disney's financial results. A crowd of 5 in a park last year was probably less crowded than it is this year so lines for all attractions are getting longer.

 

[jade1]

The days of "All Fast Passes have been distributed for this attraction" are coming. Never say never.

If I had a nickel for every time I saw this over a covered FP- machine.

And anyone that has done any of the following-at least peak weeks.

Folks flying in that day, folks checking out that day, resort transfers, taking a business call, coming from another park, closed a park at 3AM, DTD, fishing, golfing, jogging, working out at Ship Shape or Sturdy Branches, swimming, just hating RD madness, sleeping, relaxing, slow guests in the party, a baby that finally went to sleep, west coast guests on 3 hour earlier clocks, hangovers (yea I said it), shopping, dining at a char brunch etc.

 

[Mickeynutty]

fast pass + sucks as a whole. Basically disney took a big giant dump on the theme park experience.

Not enough passes, eliminates the rewards for the die hard theme park goers that want to hustle, the IT behind my magic is absolute garbage, and the general lack of vision for fast pass + is ridiculous.


Not to mention that there should never be a pirates, HM, Spaceship Earth, etc fast pass. I mean ever. Whoever threw that idea on the table should be fired immediately and then required to come to this message board and apologize for being an idiot.

Wow. This is how we feel. Two trips with FP+ since November. YUK!!!

 

[Sammie]

I've tried really hard to come up with at least one positive about FP+/MB's.

I can't.

Being able to book a Fastpass in advance for headliners at any time you choose even late afternoon and evening without even having to go to the attraction until you are ready to ride, not possible with Legacy.

Booking Fastpass for parades, Fireworks, shows, not possible with Legacy.

Knowing in advance what time your Fastpass is, so you can plan dinners, recreation, etc. with Legacy there was no way to know what time you would get one, if you got anything.

Magic Bands are a major improvement in convenience, no card to try and keep up with especially at the pools.