Advice on POTC photos

[Spectro is #1]

I got a Nikon 50mm lens for Christmas and would like to try to get a shot of the jail scene in Pirates.
I will be using a Nikon D70. I obviously won't be using a flash but my concern is this.
If I shoot in aperture priority and open the lens up to 1.8 my fear is my DOF will be too shallow. If I step it down too much of course my shutter will be too slow and it will be blurry. For those of you that have had success what set up worked for you? Should I preset my WB to incandescent light? will that help eliminate the yellow tint of the dim light inside the ride?
Also, I don't want a lot of noise so how high can I go with the ISO?
Thank you for any help you can offer.

P.S.
Can you post your POTC photos?

 

[ukcatfan]

Unfortunately, you are going to need it at f/1.8 and ISO 1600. That is a tough shot even with those settings. Luckily, the ride will sometimes stop for a few seconds in that scene and you could lower your shutter speed. You might consider a monopod. I would also suggest shooting in full manual and using RAW.

 

[Chikabowa]

Now, I do have the advantages of an extended ISO range camera. But my suggestion is to keep the camera in manual. I shot all these at ISO 6400, f2.8 (I could have dropped it to f1.4, but I wanted more DOF), 1/100.

I kept my shutter to a reasonable speed that I knew I wouldn't get too much motion blur. But the interesting thing is that on the jail scene and the scene with Sparrow, I blow out my respective red and blue channels. I was able to recover a lot (shot in RAW), I could have lowered my ISO and upped my f-stop to push it even further and been fine. The jail scene, the color balance was so off, that I just did a dark grainy B&W in post-process, but it gives you at least something to work with.

On the D70, I would keep your ISO at 1600, and stop down to f1.4. If you have a steady hand, you could probably keep the shutter at 1/60 or 1/80 without too much blur too.

As a side note... the only two rides I found even more difficult to shoot were Peter Pan and Haunted Mansion. I really did not get anything worth showing at the Haunted Mansion - but it does give me reason to go back and practice more!

 

[zackiedawg]

Agree with UKcatfan...you've got to go wide open, even with the shallow DOF...and ISO1600 is pretty much the minimum you can use to have any shot. Shutter speeds from the moving boat have to be at least 1/30 to have a chance of avoiding blur.

If you use AF, I would recommend using spot or center focus point, so you can pinpoint where you want the focus to be. With a 50mm, it will be very shallow wide open, but not so much so that you cannot get all of the scene in reasonable focus to get a decent shot.

The better DSLRs today, like the D300, can go much higher with the ISO and still get clean shots (as you can see above!!)...your D70 won't quite shoot at that level. But it should still give plenty usable results. Here's an example with my A300 (also not the high-ISO master camera) using a 50mm F1.7 wide open...this scene was so dark I was shooting at ISO3200 in aperture priority and STILL only got 1/25 shutter out of it:

Some scenes are slightly better lit than this one, like the auction scene. Also, I shot standard JPG instead of RAW - next time I try, I'll use RAW as there is a bit more leeway to process the underexposure and get decent results. Still, I considered this plenty usable and fairly decent.

I'd say - shoot raw, go max ISO (worry about removing noise in post, as getting light is more important), use A priority, use center or spot focus point, shoot wide open, and try to keep the shutter at 1/30 or up if possible. If A priority won't give you enough shutter speed, switch to Manual, and set the shutter there - you'll underexpose, but can bring them up in post.

 

[boBQuincy]

On dark rides I go for Av, setting the lens wide open to guarantee the best shutter speed possible. I set exposure compensation to about -1 stop. RAW gives the most flexibility in exposure and white balance.
I am not convinced there is a clear winner between IS and a wide aperture, I have used both my 50 f/1.8 and my 24-105 f/4 with good results in POTC.

Both of these were taken with the 24-105 at f/4, the jail scene at 1/6 s and Jack at 1/13 s.

 

[Gdad]

I went back and looked at my attempts at that ride at ISO 1600 (Nikon D50) and they were all really dark. I was shooting at f2.8 and 1/30 sec and they were probably 2 stops underexposed all the way through. So you will definitely need to shoot wide open- and if I had a steady hand go for a slower shutter like 1/30 - 1/40.

ISO 3200 1/50th @ f1.2

ISO 12800 1/20th @ f1.2

 

[Spectro is #1]

hanks for the help.
These are great shots

I should have mentioned I will be shooting in RAW.
With the 50mm wide open will the AF work? I have not used it in that type of setting but in low light shooting the camera often moves in and out trying to focus?

zackiedawg,
I was thinking about getting a D90 or D300 but will have to pull my best Ralphie whats a Red Rider BB gun angle with the wife so there is no way that will happen before my May trip.

 

[disneyboy2003]

Wow! Fantastic photos, everyone!

I agree that taking non-flash pictures on POTC is probably the most challenging. You have to use a slower shutter speed, despite the boat rocking up and down throughout the ride (or, worse yet, when the boat behind bumps into you!). I had to use a shutter speed around 1/60 - 1/80. Here's my attempt at POTC:

​

 

[disneyboy2003]

Oops! Double-post. Sorry.

 

[Todd_H]

I usually shoot dark rides using shutter priority rather than aperture priority, set my ISO as high as I can (was 3200 with my 40D) and the shutter speed to match the inverse of the focal length (which was 1/50 shooting at 50mm... but probably could have gotten away with 1/30).

 

[GrillMouster]

With the 50mm wide open will the AF work? I have not used it in that type of setting but in low light shooting the camera often moves in and out trying to focus?

The aperture doesn't stop down until the shutter releases. Therefore, the lens is always at its max aperture when metering and autofocusing.
You've gottten good advice so far from everyone. You'll need to maximize your ISO (clean up noise in post), use the widest aperture you've got, and adjust the shutter speed to whatever is necessary for decent exposure. For these kinds of shots I don't mind a little underexposure, as it fits the mood. If you're worried about the shallow depth-of-field you'll get with a maxed out aperture, shoot from an angle where the most important elements are in roughly the same focal plane. You could also try focus bracketing and combine the images in post to increase the depth of field of the final image (CS4 does this automatically).

 

[rtphokie]

I concur with the others in the thread. Open up the aperture as much possible i.e. 1.8) and crank up the ISO (clean up the noise later). Shoot raw if you can so you dont have to worry about white balance until later as well. Then let the lighting do it's job as the set designers intended, they'll come out really red and yellow but that's how it's lit.

 

[RBennett]

...

On a side note, here's a little bit of trivia regarding this ride. Does anyone remember riding this and hearing the pirates yell, "We wants the redhead!" The reason that they are yelling this is because she is the only one with legs!! It's true! DW and I went on the Keys to the Kingdom tour back in October and we had this GREAT cast member who was VERY knowledgeable about the parks and the company. Apparently all of the others stop at the waist down.

 

[bdtracey]

On a side note, here's a little bit of trivia regarding this ride. Does anyone remember riding this and hearing the pirates yell, "We wants the redhead!" The reason that they are yelling this is because she is the only one with legs!! It's true! DW and I went on the Keys to the Kingdom tour back in October and we had this GREAT cast member who was VERY knowledgeable about the parks and the company. Apparently all of the others stop at the waist down.

I HAVE heard the pirates say that...I just thought it was a personal preference and I was in complete agreement!

 

[Spectro is #1]

Thanks for all the advice. I pulled the trigger and ordered the D90 from Amazon.

 

[kaffinito]

Thanks for all the advice. I pulled the trigger and ordered the D90 from Amazon.

Congrats on the D90!

Just to add, I try to go on POTC when there is a line - that way I have a better chance of getting stuck in the last few scenes. It gives me more time to shoot, and I can squeeze off some multiple shots that way. I use my 50mm on my D60 since that lens seems to give me the best night (or dark) shots.

Have fun on your trip!

 

[handicap18]

The D90 is a VERY NICE piece of equipment! I'm sure you'll love it. Its a HUGE upgrade over the D70. You'll find its ISO performance at 3200 is better than the D70 at 800!

I did really well with my D50 and the 30mm f/1.4 at ISO1600. IIRC, I used aperture priority and got between 1/20th and 1/80th for shutter speeds depending on the scene:

The BIGGEST issue with this ride is the White Balance. Shoot in RAW and worry about it later when you get on the computer.

With the D90 and the 50mm f/1.8 you should do real well. ISO3200 should be fine. Use aperture priority and pay attention to your shutter speeds in the view finder. If you find yourself getting real good speeds, then adjust your f/stop from f/1.8 to f/2 or f/2.8 to give yourself some more DOF. Watch your focus points too. Even though your a good distance from the subject, DOF is VERY shallow with these f/stops.

 

[tazdev3225]

I shot this with my Sony DSWC-H50 in fully auto mode. Was having a bad day and couldn't remember how to change the settings.

It is'nt a great shot considering the camera is a point and shoot. I will have my A-300 when I go next and I'm not sure how to tweak the settings. The picture was at ISO 3200, f/3.2, and exposure was 0.125s. I am assuming the sesor focused on the light and made the rest of the picture dark. To brighten it up what should I change? My old film camera had a built in meter so I never mastered any of this. Thanks for any help.

 

[zackiedawg]

Tazdev,

With a DSLR, usually the best way to shoot in a dark ride like this is to use Aperture Priority so you can set your aperture to the widest setting and leave it there. Let the camera choose the fastest shutter it can given the lighting in the scene. I usually use center-weighted metering, this is one case where spot-meter may cause some problems - like you mention, if you end up spot-metering off the light, the camera will choose a very fast shutter and the rest of the scene will be dark. Since you will need to meter more for the dark sections, you might be better off with at least center-weighted or multipoint (I think center weight is the best overall, because it will put a little more emphasis on the section you are pointing at, to avoid blowing out highlights too much in multi metering mode).

You really do need a low light lens in there - something like at least the 50mm F1.7, and F1.4 even better. That will let you get autofocus reasonably reliably...with an F2.8 lens, the scenes may be too dark for autofocus to 'see'. ISO1600 can work in some scenes, but mostly ISO3200 will be needed. You will have a little more recovery ability in processing if you shoot RAW...up to you whether it's worth the extra processing ability. I shot mine in jpg, just because when I go to Disney I'm not usually trying to take shots that I'll have to process too much. Someday, I may just try a few in RAW so I can see how much better (if any) the results are.

Here are a few more scenes with the A300 and 50mm F1.7, wide open at ISO3200:

 

[tazdev3225]

zackiedawg,
Thanks for the advice. I actually picked up the 50mm 1.7 lens brand new in the box based on some of the other posts I have read here. I have been taking pictures for years with a 35mm film SLR but it was easier to get good pictures with my old Fuji camera because the meter was right there and I could adjust a stop or two and not really know the technical stuff. The digitals don't make it as easy to do that.