Advice needed! Room canceled accidentally

[chartle]

I've read a few posts here on how they wouldn't recommend David any more. Do other brokers offer better compensation if the deal goes south? If not, you should just not be recommending any of these services not just singling out this one company.

 

[River Country]

I think what gets me the more i read this is that the word "accidentally canceled."

 

[crisi]

I've read a few posts here on how they wouldn't recommend David any more. Do other brokers offer better compensation if the deal goes south? If not, you should just not be recommending any of these services not just singling out this one company.

Nope, this is just going to be a risk of renting through anyone.

There are levels of risk to any vacation plan. Even with a room reservation through Disney, there is a chance that rooms will get overbooked, or a block of rooms will need to be taken out of service due to a fire or some other reason - and what you book you will not get. People booking Adventures by Disney trips in 2009 saw a lot of trips cancelled due to low participation, and people who cruise have seen their cruises cancelled due to Norwalk. Disney does what David does - refunds your money and says "sorry."

 

[gonzalj1]

They have the conditions in the contract signed. They may lose the money they already paid the owner, I don't think they owe paying for a room on top of it. I don't understand why people don't think a contract they signed isn't valid when things go wrong.

I understand the contract situation and I agree that legally this situation is covered within. However, from a business standpoint, David's is now getting bad press on these boards. Falling back on the contract wording and being strict about enforcing it is likely to cost them business. There are already several folks who stated they will be reluctant to use David's in the future. The question in my mind is this adherence to the contract penny wise and pound foolish.

There are many examples of companies going above and beyond the contract terms. Heck, we see postings about that exact thing here on a daily basis. How many times have we read about Disney sprinkling pixie dust on families. They have no contractual obligation to do so but they do it. And they do it because there is a positive cash flow expectation to doing so. The good word of mouth gets around and others hear about how Disney went above and beyond so they book vacations with them.

Just saying this decision seems to be more of a negative cash flow expectation than paying for a room for this family. Imagine how different this thread would be if the OP posted that David's dealt with a very unfortunate situation and made good on a reservation for them. How many people here would be thinking "Boy, maybe I'll use David's in the future." As opposed to what we are seeing here.

BTW - I deal with contracts all day every day. All they do is set out the MINIMUM expectations. There is nothing to stop either party for doing MORE than what is in the contract. Happens all the time believe me.

 

[Kristibo42]

Just like any major bill you know when your money is due. So even for someone to say they didn't get anythnig in the mail you know.

 

[gonzalj1]

The whole point of going through a third party broker instead of dealing with an owner directly is to avoid these kinds of problems. What's the point of using a broker like David's if they do nothing but try to upsell when there's a problem?
The business model for brokers is that they give a trustworthy alternative to dealing direct, where there is a large measure of trust on behalf of the renter that the reservation was actually made. However, that trust that the broker supposedly holds is quickly eroded when cases like this come along and they offer no suitable alternative.
Yes, I realize the studios were all booked up once these original reservations were cancelled, but offering alternatives that don't include all the days and require additional funds is quite simply a horrible business practice. The bad press David's is getting is easily worth the cost of making these reservations right. And by that I mean covering the extra $96 and finding alternative lodging for the missing nights (ie at a Value or Moderate). THAT would create loyal customers who tell others instead of customer who will never use them again and will make sure to tell everyone they know.

Here here....Seems that David's might need a business model change. Or at least a stronger contract with the owner's they deal with. The other thing going through my mind is unscrupulous owners putting ressies for sale through broker's, receiving half the funds, then canceling and keeping the money. Seems the brokers need ot find a way to stop that from happening or they are open to a lot of risk.

Maybe a system where ALL the funds go into escrow until the ressie commences.

 

[suebeelin]

Sue, I rented mine out (through David) last fall (and did a rental through him for HHI for the Summer). It did go without a hitch. But being someone who spends a lot of time professionally doing risk analysis, I did wonder if the HHI room would be there when we showed up or if I'd find a $3,000 credit card bill on my room and a charge for someone scratching up the tub with a keg.

Thankfully it looks like s 6yr old and his parents. Otherwise I would be much more wary!

Here here....Seems that David's might need a business model change. Or at least a stronger contract with the owner's they deal with. The other thing going through my mind is unscrupulous owners putting ressies for sale through broker's, receiving half the funds, then canceling and keeping the money. Seems the brokers need ot find a way to stop that from happening or they are open to a lot of risk.

Maybe a system where ALL the funds go into escrow until the ressie commences.

I agree all funds going into escrow is the best scenario. But there are brokers out there that pay out 75% upfront... Won't every owner go to that person instead?

Also, david's is not a big publicly traded company (a la Disney) making record profits. I highly doubt he can afford to "make good" and be out thousands upon thousands of dollars per reservation that goes awry.

There are other services that give 75% upfront (David's is less). These brokers are still looking for more owners with renters, so there's little incentive.

I calculated the "profit" for the brokers- a miniscule $20-50/day or so profit. That's really not a lot for the amount of work. If brokers disappeared, the only option is to go via a direct owner. And then there are less guarantees.

As a small business owner, this "bad press" will likely mean a handful less renters. But, as mentioned above, there are more renters than owners. This bad press is understood as a rare scenario. Many ppl still are willing to go through brokers and saved thousands upon thousands per trip, with a 5% chance that things might go awry.

 

[katriscari]

I understand the contract situation and I agree that legally this situation is covered within. However, from a business standpoint, David's is now getting bad press on these boards. Falling back on the contract wording and being strict about enforcing it is likely to cost them business. There are already several folks who stated they will be reluctant to use David's in the future. The question in my mind is this adherence to the contract penny wise and pound foolish.

There are many examples of companies going above and beyond the contract terms. Heck, we see postings about that exact thing here on a daily basis. How many times have we read about Disney sprinkling pixie dust on families. They have no contractual obligation to do so but they do it. And they do it because there is a positive cash flow expectation to doing so. The good word of mouth gets around and others hear about how Disney went above and beyond so they book vacations with them.

Just saying this decision seems to be more of a negative cash flow expectation than paying for a room for this family. Imagine how different this thread would be if the OP posted that David's dealt with a very unfortunate situation and made good on a reservation for them. How many people here would be thinking "Boy, maybe I'll use David's in the future." As opposed to what we are seeing here.

BTW - I deal with contracts all day every day. All they do is set out the MINIMUM expectations. There is nothing to stop either party for doing MORE than what is in the contract. Happens all the time believe me.

This is the best answer I've read about this topic in the last couple of days....

I rented through someone on the boards for our trip last May, and we are using him for another trip in November and then again for May 2016 (hopefully).....All this is doing is making me want to buy DVC more to take my risk away completely.

 

[crisi]

I rented through someone on the boards for our trip last May, and we are using him for another trip in November and then again for May 2016 (hopefully).....All this is doing is making me want to buy DVC more to take my risk away completely.

It will reduce the risk, but it won't take it away completely. There have been members who have had Grand Villas booked that have had those units go into service and they've ended up with a two bedroom and studio at whatever resort was still open. Early on at VAKL, all the concierge rooms were suddenly removed from service - we were in the hot tub at the Boardwalk with someone who went from a Conceirge VAKL room to a preferred view at BWV - and she thought she was relatively lucky, other people were ending up at SSR or OKW.

There have been people who have booked rooms, then made changes and member services made the change wrong - by the time it could be fixed, the room had been snapped up by someone else. They can't kick someone else out of the room, so the member has had to make other arrangements. Usually Disney does very little or nothing for compensation in these circumstances.

With needing to reserve almost a year in advance, there are people who book BCV just for the pool who get caught in pool maintenance every time the pool closes down. There are people who show up to discover the rooms above them are in the middle of refurb - when OKW had the upper level carpets redone, there was a lot of complaints about the noise level.

 

[LisaS]

I understand the contract situation and I agree that legally this situation is covered within. However, from a business standpoint, David's is now getting bad press on these boards. Falling back on the contract wording and being strict about enforcing it is likely to cost them business. There are already several folks who stated they will be reluctant to use David's in the future. The question in my mind is this adherence to the contract penny wise and pound foolish.

David's is only getting bad press with the folks who didn't read or understand the terms of his contract. My opinion of David's business has not been changed by these reports and I suspect many others feel the same way. David has more requests for reservations than he can fill. If he loses some business over this I don't think it will be an issue for him. And where are those people going to go since the other brokers operate under the same terms and renting privately from an individual is even more risky since you could lose both your reservation and your money.

I hope this discussion has made some people more aware of the risk they take on when renting. Read the contract and understand the risks and decide if the money you save is worth it given the risks. If you are risk averse, rent directly from Disney and consider the additional money that it costs to do so as insurance. Don't expect more compensation than what is stated in the contract. That's just not realistic.

 

[disneyberry]

kamik already said this earlier, but I wanted to reiterate it.

Some people seem to have an unrealistic belief that using a point broker to rent points somehow magically protects you from all risk. Read the fine print, there is risk no matter what.

To fault David's isn't fair at all. If anything, potential renters should learn from this and realize that it actually may be less risky to rent directly from an owner who has a good reputation and/or good references.

 

[crisi]

Here here....Seems that David's might need a business model change. Or at least a stronger contract with the owner's they deal with. The other thing going through my mind is unscrupulous owners putting ressies for sale through broker's, receiving half the funds, then canceling and keeping the money. Seems the brokers need ot find a way to stop that from happening or they are open to a lot of risk.

Maybe a system where ALL the funds go into escrow until the ressie commences.

As Sue said, as an owner, what's in that arrangement for me? I might do that if I was going to get $16 a point instead of $13 for my points - but I can get $12 posting on the boards here and get half up front - or more if I desire. David needs to source the points he rents out. If he doesn't have points because the owners aren't getting what they consider a fair deal, then the business disappears.

And, in this case, holding the whole thing is escrow would have done nothing anyway for the renter. The reservation would still be cancelled for non-payment of dues, the renter would still get a full refund. David would be out less money, but that's about it.

 

[DebbieB]

This is the best answer I've read about this topic in the last couple of days....

I rented through someone on the boards for our trip last May, and we are using him for another trip in November and then again for May 2016 (hopefully).....All this is doing is making me want to buy DVC more to take my risk away completely.

The risk you have is losing the reservation, not losing the money with David's. They are willing to give you a full refund and lose the money that they can't recover. You can then take that money and try to find another reservation. If you work with an individual owner, they could walk away with both your reservation and your money.

I was just looking at David's page, his cut is $2.70 per point. So if 200 points are rented, their cut is $540. If something goes wrong, expecting them to pay for a cash reservation that could cost thousands is unreasonable.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

This is also a good idea. But it is NOT true that DVC owners are not supposed to rent out points. Commercial renting (a member renting many, many reservations every year) is prohibited.

And it's not commercial to use a broker that rents out many more reservations that any one of us could?

I kinda agree with you. I can't imagine Disney would not try to fix a mistake like that. This is what they said-and NO compensation!:Through an error by the Disney Vacation Club, they have accidently cancelled your reservation. This occurred when the funds sent by the Member to pay for his annual dues were allocated to the wrong account, (he owns several memberships and the payment was attached to the incorrect account). When the Disney Vacation Club cancelled your reservation your room went back into inventory and was booked by another member. Your Member was on the phone all day with Member Services and had the call escalated up to the head of the accounting and services department. Despite the Member’s best efforts the Disney Vacation Club is not able to retrieve your reservation and are unwilling to compensate for the loss.

But then again that seems like a lot of effort to make something up. Aunt will be talking with Kelly at David's tomorrow. And thanks to Marionette for the suggestion about Boardwalk cash as an option for David's to compensate for the difference. I'll have my aunt propose that as an option.

I am calling BS. I have had multiple accounts and actually had this happen. WHen I got the past due notice I called Disney and they fixed it. I was NEVER in in any danger of my vacations being cancelled as I responded IMMEDIATELY to the FIRST notice. The renter was in no way close to current!

 

[crisi]

For those that are arguing for a business model change - which I'd assume is mostly the renter side of the equation rather than the member side - how much per point is it worth to you and what guarantee do you want? What's your price ceiling and what do you expect for that. Because not all business model changes are possible under Disney's policies (David can't touch a reservation, so he can't swap out a different reservation without working with owners, and owners don't agree to be available 24x7 - I think our end of the contract is only a few points of contact, one at the time of reservation and again for for Magical Express and Dining Plans, he can't own limitless points because Disney caps the number of points a person can own) but if a sort of guarantee were possible, its going to cost.

 

[supersnoop]

I am calling BS. I have had multiple accounts and actually had this happen. WHen I got the past due notice I called Disney and they fixed it. I was NEVER in in any danger of my vacations being cancelled as I responded IMMEDIATELY to the FIRST notice. The renter was in no way close to current!

Can you make a reservation if you're delinquent? The reservation was made in December, so it seems difficult to be delinquent on last year's dues at that point in time. The whole story just doesn't add up.

 

[supersnoop]

For those that are arguing for a business model change - which I'd assume is mostly the renter side of the equation rather than the member side - how much per point is it worth to you and what guarantee do you want? What's your price ceiling and what do you expect for that. Because not all business model changes are possible under Disney's policies (David can't touch a reservation, so he can't swap out a different reservation without working with owners, and owners don't agree to be available 24x7 - I think our end of the contract is only a few points of contact, one at the time of reservation and again for for Magical Express and Dining Plans, he can't own limitless points because Disney caps the number of points a person can own) but if a sort of guarantee were possible, its going to cost.

David use to accept transfers and book the reservation himself, so he did have a bit more control. At least that's how I understand it, and how the single-transfer-per-year rule came into being.

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

I just wrote a review on David's Vacation Rentals page... not exactly basing them (I've learned a ton the last 36 hours)... but as a warning to other people.

Wanna bet it never appears there? LOL!

 

[crisi]

David use to accept transfers and book the reservation himself, so he did have a bit more control. At least that's how I understand it, and how the single-transfer-per-year rule came into being.

He also used to be an associate on the account, but Disney closed that option as well when they figured out how the brokerage business was going to work

 

[LisaS]

David use to accept transfers and book the reservation himself, so he did have a bit more control. At least that's how I understand it, and how the single-transfer-per-year rule came into being.

The original model was that the owner added David as an Associate on the account and David then made and managed the reservation himself. Then DVC made a new rule that you could be an Associate on no more than four accounts and he changed to the current broker model.

If I remember correctly, enforcing the one transfer per year rule happened before David even started his business. It was done to prevent point morphing.