Advice Needed On FAMILY Issues

[DevilDuckie]

Okay, start off with, I agree with Disykat. For your nephew's sake, skip his party. If things between you and his father are so tense you will not have the man in your home it is a bad idea to go be in his when it could blow up and ruin the poor kid's day.

The next part is where I need you to keep an open mind. Don't get defensive. This is not about what *you* did wrong but rather about what you might do "right-er" next time to save yourself grief from snippy people.

Did anyone ask you to plan? Because if they didn't, I would not do so next time. I think I would send out an email ahead of time asking what people want to do and offering to make some phone calls for ADRs but if the rest of the group doesn't want to be that organized, let it go. As weird as it seems to us here, many thousands of people have happy Disney vacations WITHOUT ADRs and itineraries. It might have been wise to let your hosts do some of the organizing or decision making. Especially with siblings, "Who died and made you God?" is a sentiment that can pop up FAST!

BIL is toxic. There is nothing you can do about that except to be unfailingly gracious when forced to be near him. No, you shouldn't have to but you love your sister and you'll do it for her sake. Because you're better than that. Yes you are.

He was horrible and unfortunately you rose to the bait and responded in kind. Telling them to cancel their dinner reservations was over the top. That pretty much clinched their idea that you thought this was YOUR vacation to run- you were now telling them they were excluded from the family dinner. That was outside of the scope of your rights. You had a right to not attend and they had the same right- where you crossed the line was saying that the group had to be split but YOU got to decide who had dinner where.

You said your parents "were not happy" over the exchange. With whom were they upset? You say your sister was "running her mouth". Was she trying to express her frustrations to you? Could this have been a moment to hear the other side of things and understand where she (not your BIL) was coming from?


Telling your sister you hate her husband is not helpful and in the, "if it's not helping, it's hurting" kind of way. You and your sister do need to talk. Not about her husband, but about the communication failure between the two of you. I would approcach it as, "I understand that I upset you but I don't really understand why." Then be prepared to really listen to what she has to say. Remember that your intentions are not the problem. Let her tell you how she felt and why and after she has had her say, tell her what you meant to do and consider apologizing for unintentionally upsetting her. You need to focus on the sister relationship and leave the thing with her husband out of it as much as possible. If SHE brings him up try to speak in a neutral way. This is her chosen life partner and she values him even if you cannot see why.

None of this is easy stuff and none of it is fun and it is always easier to determine a better course after the fact and from the outside. I doubt I'd have done any better at handling it than you did.

 

[tazdev3225]

I too am a microplanner and have lists for everything when we go on vacation. Several years ago my kids and my sons fiancee and son went to Disney with us. My DIL and I stopped talking for 2 months and my son told me off while there. It made for some uncomfortable times because they lived with us. We are planning another family trip in 3 years with all my kids and grandkids. I am again planning the vacation but we are having times that we spend together and some of the time will be spent apart. I learned that my microplanning caused a lot of stress for everyone and left no room for alone time. My DIL and I talked several months later and we both apologized for our actions.
Go to your nephews party and at some other point in time talk to your sister and BIL, they may want to get past this too and don't know how to take the first step. Life is short and they are family. If it can't be patched up at least you will know you tried.

 

[disykat]

. Telling them to cancel their dinner reservations was over the top.

??? I took her saying "just cancel your dinner reservations" to mean "you don't have to come with us, you are not married to doing what we want to do." I thought the point of all their muttering was that they didn't want to do what she had planned? She was letting them know (again) that they didn't have to.

 

[koziclan]

Sounds like you were being pretty pushy when most people wanted to slow down.

Day 1. Sounds like you handed out a touring plan (which is not what MOST people consider a relaxing vacation) and informed them that "the rest of us are doing THIS, you can do your own thing if you want"....which is basically like saying "If you're not into the same thing I am....well then, see ya"

Day 2. I suspect that what happened is Rope Drop came....you didnt immediately see them, and decided to rush ahead with your touring plan without even giving 5 minutes to find them.

Day 3. Sounds like you had in your mind what you and YOUR kids wanted to do, and were completely unwilling to stop to do what they want to do because "you know the better way to do things". let the damn kid hang out and watch fish for a while!

My advice to you: Call your BIL and apologize for hijacking the "FAMILY" vacation.

Day1 MY plan they FOLLOWED

Day 2 not at rope drop 3 adults looking for 15 min.

Day 3 just wanted to let them know that we were leaving so the weren't looking for us

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

Send your nephew a nice gift and let him know you wish you could be there. He's 4 or 5. Trust me, it's kids and gifts he's interested in. He'll remember what you send him.

Day1 MY plan they FOLLOWED

Day 2 not at rope drop 3 adults looking for 15 min.

Day 3 just wanted to let them know that we were leaving so the weren't looking for us

 

[Nancyg56]

Whatever happened it is over and it is done. No matter how you see it your BIL's perspective will be different so he may have been as angry as you are. Let it go for now and go to your nephew's birthday party. I'd give it a shot and see if you and your BIL can at least tolerate each other for the sake of your sister and your kids. I've been in the middle of family problems and believe me, if you do not at least try to get along you may alienate your sister and her family.

When I have been angry with a family member I always ask myself if that person was gone from my life tomorrow, would I regret that I had stayed away? If I would then I never stay away and let wounds fester.

Good luck.

 

[koziclan]

I haven't read the replies, but I would go and be polite. You are going for your nephew.

Is he ugly to the other family members as well at functions? Does he go to other's homes, or none at all? I guess what I am asking is does he avoid only you, or everyone?

At functions doesn't talk much and he hasn't gone to any since this happened.

 

[badblackpug]

Uggh...okay I see this. You are "commando" tourers and your sis's family are either more laid back or inexperienced. I think mostly on your and your sister's part this was a lack of communication. I think your BIL is an a*shole with a bad temper. I would call your sister an talk to her about the party. I would ask her if her husband was going to be angry if you came. I would tell her that you don't want to ruin your nephew's special day. Tell her that you would really like to come, but if it will be too upsetting for her husband, you won't come. I would, however, make a "date" with your sister and her son for another day to do something special to clebrate his b-day. (after all, it is not the child's fault that the adults can't get right)

But, you need to clear the air with your sister. Explain to her that this is still bothering you, and that you don't want this to come between your families. Apologize for the miscommunication and lost temper, but explain to her that you are hurt by her husband's name calling and comments, not to mention, his inability to "let it go."

Good luck.

 

[Rylee]

Since you are still struggling with moving past this, and obviously, so is your BIL, I suggest you talk with you sister, NOW!

You're nephew's birthday party is the perfect reason to bring up this topic in conversation.

Talk from the heart.

You don't need to deliberately bring up the past to rehash... in fact, I would not take that approach, but I would explain to her...
how you are feeling... uncomfortable, and
confused as to what is the best way to handle gatherings in the future.

Start out by telling her how much you want to attend your nephew's party but explain you are nervous, since you and you BIL haven't spoken or seen one another since the trip. Ask her how she feels about the situation, but do not blame the past on your BIL. The past should not be the reason for or the focus of this conversation, but will most likely lead to discussing the past, but... at least you'll know where you stand with your sister and her family and perhaps get a chance to share "your side."

If you feel you can't have this conversation with your sister, I would make every attempt to attend his party. Imagine how hurt your sister will be, if you put your differences with her husband, ahead of your love for her son. All adults should "do the right thing" for the sake of the kids... including your sister's husband.

 

[wilderness01]

I agree that I would keep a relationship with my sister and nephew. But there is no way I would go to the party. If possible, I would plan to see my nephew when BIL wasn't home so I could personally give him his gifts.

He was obviously repeating one of his parents or both when he said you were ruining his vacation. There is no way I would turn the other cheek if I was treated so poorly, called vulgar names and then received no apology.

Would you accept this from a friend? This is always the template that I live by. Just because you are related to me, whether by blood or marriage, does not give you the right to mistreat me. Life is too short.

If this is truly bothering you, then clear the air with your sister and move on. But I wouldn't be too quick to want to be around a person that is so trigger tempered around my kids. Good luck.

 

[koziclan]

Okay, start off with, I agree with Disykat. For your nephew's sake, skip his party. If things between you and his father are so tense you will not have the man in your home it is a bad idea to go be in his when it could blow up and ruin the poor kid's day.

The next part is where I need you to keep an open mind. Don't get defensive. This is not about what *you* did wrong but rather about what you might do "right-er" next time to save yourself grief from snippy people.


Did anyone ask you to plan? Because if they didn't, I would not do so next time. I think I would send out an email ahead of time asking what people want to do and offering to make some phone calls for ADRs but if the rest of the group doesn't want to be that organized, let it go. As weird as it seems to us here, many thousands of people have happy Disney vacations WITHOUT ADRs and itineraries. It might have been wise to let your hosts do some of the organizing or decision making. Especially with siblings, "Who died and made you God?" is a sentiment that can pop up FAST!

They did ask for the ADR's

BIL is toxic. There is nothing you can do about that except to be unfailingly gracious when forced to be near him. No, you shouldn't have to but you love your sister and you'll do it for her sake. Because you're better than that. Yes you are.

He was horrible and unfortunately you rose to the bait and responded in kind. Telling them to cancel their dinner reservations was over the top. That pretty much clinched their idea that you thought this was YOUR vacation to run- you were now telling them they were excluded from the family dinner. That was outside of the scope of your rights. You had a right to not attend and they had the same right- where you crossed the line was saying that the group had to be split but YOU got to decide who had dinner where.

I see your point. But let me add that later I went over what we couldn't cancel without losing $$ and that I was just mad and would sit away from him. She did go to one without BIL and she asked me to call, cancel the rest and try to get them other. Which I did.
You said your parents "were not happy" over the exchange. With whom were they upset? You say your sister was "running her mouth". Was she trying to express her frustrations to you? Could this have been a moment to hear the other side of things and understand where she (not your BIL) was coming from?

They were upset with him. They heard some of his comments before AK and I'm not the only one in the family that he has acted this way with.
I did listen to her and had a few responses but it wasn't the time or place to get into it.

Telling your sister you hate her husband is not helpful and in the, "if it's not helping, it's hurting" kind of way. You and your sister do need to talk. Not about her husband, but about the communication failure between the two of you. I would approcach it as, "I understand that I upset you but I don't really understand why." Then be prepared to really listen to what she has to say. Remember that your intentions are not the problem. Let her tell you how she felt and why and after she has had her say, tell her what you meant to do and consider apologizing for unintentionally upsetting her. You need to focus on the sister relationship and leave the thing with her husband out of it as much as possible. If SHE brings him up try to speak in a neutral way. This is her chosen life partner and she values him even if you cannot see why.

None of this is easy stuff and none of it is fun and it is always easier to determine a better course after the fact and from the outside. I doubt I'd have done any better at handling it than you did.

Thanks a bunch all good points!

 

[TXTurtles]

I feel for you! I have an ex-roommate who would be PERFECT for this guy and, since she's now the assistant apartment manager, you can imagine how interesting this gets at times. One difference though: everyone seems to know that BIL is a jerk while ex-roommate is a charmer. But just like you, being around her and her constant snide comments about me makes me feel like a big door mat. If you fight it and get emotional then you loose. If you just ignore it then it's like being a kid all over where the other sib just gets more and more annoying and, while technically you win, it's a painful win. At some point retreat is the best option.

My best advice? Call up DS and talk. And you can always appologize for how you reacted in your anger without for a moment denying that you had something to get angry about. It gets that elephant out in the open and makes it far less of an Issue. This doesn't mean you're going to be BFF with BIL, just that you're now admitting what the problem is. Bonus points if, in a few years, you're laughing about it. Humor is both far better medicine and SO much more power than we give it credit for. Again, NONE of this means you need to ever see BIL again, you're just trying to (1) re-establish that relationship with DS and and DN (he needs all the good influences he can get) and (2) turning the trip from That Thing That Happened to a future funny story. Again, I feel for you and hope it works out in the end!

 

[WeCantWait]

.

 

[maedelken]

Oh My sounds like my husbands fun family. We do a beach trip every year with my husbands family. Every year BIL and SIL start some sort of drama with the parents or vice versa. Usually everyone gets sucked into it. It is soooo awful so I feel for you. I think I would be pissed at my sister.

 

[DisTeach1]

Well, what I got from this...Your parents paid for a vacation, but you seemed to have made it your vacation by developing a touring plan for your family and telling the others that they could basically take it or leave it. I know if My mom paid for a vacation for the entire family, she would have been devastated by having the family split up or having one group say, "This is what we are doing". Not so great of you, in my opinion. It's too bad everyone didn't get together beforehand and discuss plans and expectations.

I agree your BIL was rude. My BIL is rude and ignorant and I have never let it get in the way of family...meaning my sister and her girls. I am polite to him and am there for my nieces. Life is too short for me not to be there for my nieces and for me not to have a relationship with my sister.

And not to criticize, but there are always two sides to the story and I wonder what there take was.

 

[pixiefairy]

I'm sorry you are going through all of this. My dh's family have some issues...one is a BIL issue (he refuses to come to any function that one of my other BILs is at) and one is a SIL issue (her current bf is a leach and sucked all the life out of her, causing other family members to become involved and consequently, she refuses to speak to half of her family now, including us). We have a huge family and it's not easy to deal with. I think if he had a problem he should have approached it differently. My SIL sends her dd's to family functions without her so we are in this situation right now. It's ridiculous, but it's the only way we get to see them. I'm glad you are keeping some sort of relationship with your sister and your nephew...I think her dh needs to grow up.

 

[megal0331]

We have a similar situation going on here, too...so I can understand how you feel. I guess I've taken a different approach on it because my look on "life is too short" is that I can't have that negative energy around MY family. My in-laws are whacked and how they have treated their son and our family makes for a very big black cloud over us -- but I refuse to let my children suffer due to it. We surround ourselves with wonderful friends who have become OUR FAMILY and once DH's family decides they can treat us like human beings, then they will have the privilege of being in my kids' lives.

Life is too short to be in the presence of people that bring you down. Yes, I agree that your nephew shouldn't feel the rath of it...so send a gift and well wishes. I hope that someday it can all be resolved, but at the same hand, your sister could be making an attempt, too...if she wanted things to be different.

Just my take. Good luck with everything.

 

[coyandrew]

Here's my 2 cents, as my family has definitely gone through these types of situations. Life is very short, and to put yourself through stress and agony over this situation isn't good. If your BIL isn't a good person, just don't be around him no matter what the occassion. Send your nephew a card, and let it go at that. And to celebrate the day that you dont sit around thinking that you should have gone and being upset, do something fun and exciting with the people you love, your own family.

 

[SharpMomOfTwo]

Well, what I got from this...Your parents paid for a vacation, but you seemed to have made it your vacation by developing a touring plan for your family and telling the others that they could basically take it or leave it. I know if My mom paid for a vacation for the entire family, she would have been devastated by having the family split up or having one group say, "This is what we are doing". Not so great of you, in my opinion. It's too bad everyone didn't get together beforehand and discuss plans and expectations.

I agree your BIL was rude. My BIL is rude and ignorant and I have never let it get in the way of family...meaning my sister and her girls. I am polite to him and am there for my nieces. Life is too short for me not to be there for my nieces and for me not to have a relationship with my sister.

And not to criticize, but there are always two sides to the story and I wonder what there take was.

I know I already posted, but this is also how I really feel. This is just the reason that I didn't want my sister to come on our Disney vacation. I could just see her standing there saying "Well we have everything planned out, so this is what we are doing - if you want to come and be with us, OK, if not SEE YA." It makes people feel obligated to do what they/you are doing, and for me, it makes me feel rude to say no. Its just not a nice way to do it, in my opinion. Its nicer to all sit down together and try and figure something out that everyone can agree on and no one is controlling. I don't know if they ASKED you to do it all yourself or not, but even if they did, you just shouldn't have. JMHO

 

[brymolmom]

I guess all families are different, but I would NEVER miss my nephew's big day for such trivial stuff. I guess I put it into the perspective of no one can bring you down unless you allow them to do so. I would totally go and enjoy the time with my nephew, be civil to BIL and maintain that relationship with Sis and nephew.

You said that you still have relationship with sis and nephew but really, it will have to be affected if you choose never to be in BIL presence again. Think about it in your case - if sis decided to hate your dh, do you really think it wouldn't affect your relationship to some degree? It would for me - DH and I are a team, and if someone truly hated him and refused to even be civil - it would not be the same kind of relationship for me. Down the line....little league games....first communion (if you do that)....graduations....celebrating a promotion or other event for sis....are you really prepared to miss ALL of those things because you won't be in the same vicinity as nephew's father and sis's dh??