Adult only restaurants...dare I suggest it?!

[Straughn]

I thought the wine room at the Contemporary was adults only. At least that's what we were told when we ate there last.

We have been told that for several years, which is why we always request the Wine Room. However when we were there earlier in January, there was a large party with with 3 or 4 children, two of whom were 5 years old or younger. They were well behaved, but how does the host or hostess know that when they are seated. I suspect, like a lot of things at Disney, what they say and what they do, aren't always the same. We will be back there next Friday and will see who they put in there.

 

[robinb]

Will somebody please explain why parents wait until 8:30 or 9:00 PM to take small children to dinner? The kids are exhausted and cranky and half the time are too tired to eat which only makes the problem worse as the parents try to coax and cajole them into eating. They just want to go to bed.

I know why. For the same reason why I was at Citricos with my 6 year old DD at 8:30 at night. My DD fell asleep and didn't eat touch her food. If you don't make your ARs months in advance, all the restaurants are already booked between 5:30 and 8:00.

Parents hope that things will be OK and honestly sometimes its not. But, lets not turn this into a bad parents and bratty kids debate. I would like a resturant with no kids, no matter how well behaved (or not) those kids are.

 

[my4kids]

and I wish that there was adult only dining in my own kitchen on some nights...a restaraunt can not segregate people based on age and height. This would be a huge discrimination suit...It's not like smoking /non-smoking, where second-hand smoke could harm someone's health (although it may feel like it at times, someone elses kids are not harming your health and they and their parents have just as much right to sit where ever they would like in a restaraunt as people without kids. ) If you can segregate me to different seating because I am a mother with kids, who are you going to be able to segregate next if they bother you?

Usually expensive restaraunts don't have this problem, because people are not going to plop down that kind of money on their chicken nugget eatin' munchkins...at DW however...people are on vacation , want a nice meal and if they don't choose to use babysitting services (which I would not do either- after all it's my kids vacation too...I'm not going to lock them up while I go have fun)
their only choice is to take along the nugget eaters. Add the fact that if a family can afford a Disney vacation, they probably have no problem shelling out the money for an expensive meal on the kids and this is what is gonna happen.

The adult only areas on cruise ships etc. are allowed because there is something there that the kids need to be protected from (bar,high smoke level,adult entertainment, there is no telling what a kid might get a glimse of in the spa) Restaurants at Disney are not going to have something that you can not permit a child to see.

In regards to the kid's in restaraunts from 8-9pm...every family works differently...my kids go go go go all day and sleep LATE on vacation, our regular schedule goes out the window on vacation. That is what we love about vacation...you can't judge others parenting abilities on this...we ate at LeCellier at about 9pm one night with all 4 kids under 9 and had an awesome meal and it was a highlight of our vacation.

I think the best you can do is ask your hostess to try and seat you in a quite low kid area.

Ok - don't worry, I'm going back to the Disney for Families Board now....

 

[my4kids]

I think it's a pretty big leap for a kid to go from, "Sorry buddy, that's a restaurant for grown-ups" to "Why do those grown-ups hate me so much they won't let me into that restaurant?"

It's not just about discriminating against and segregating children, but also the parents of those children.

I have many times as a mother of young children felt discriminated against. After the birth of my last child some friends wanted to get together for dinner at a chinese restaraunt. I deperately needed to get out with friends after being cooped up with the kids. I was nursing and the baby would not yet take a bottle. I got a sitter for my older 3, but had to take the infant with me. I am very discrete about nursing and a 3 week old sleeps contantly anyway. We took him along in his carrier and he slept in his seat and did not disturb anything. We were all having a wonderful time together and I felt so good about finally being out of the house. An old crotchety lady felt the need to get out of her seat and come all the way over to our table to lecture me on how she did not think it was "wise" to take such a young baby out in a public place. She totally ruined my evening and we were doing nothing to disturb her. I can't even shop in some stores because my stroller won't fit between the racks of clothes. (I know that these are not major hardships like a wheelchair bound person who can't eat at a particular restaraunt because of stairs - but I feel discriminated against nonetheless.)

I also can't belive the nasty little posts here about "the entitled children". the people who made those type of posts sound very selfish and "entitled" themselves. Actually you sound "childish" - how ironic. Please don't sit next to me in any restaraunts.

 

[susieq76]

I am very discrete about nursing and a 3 week old sleeps contantly anyway. We took him along in his carrier and he slept in his seat and did not disturb anything. We were all having a wonderful time together and I felt so good about finally being out of the house. An old crotchety lady felt the need to get out of her seat and come all the way over to our table to lecture me on how she did not think it was "wise" to take such a young baby out in a public place. She totally ruined my evening and we were doing nothing to disturb her. I can't even shop in some stores because my stroller won't fit between the racks of clothes.

I just have to answer this- I can't help myself... The "old crotchety lady" was right- it isn't wise to bring a 3 week old to a restaurant. Now that is per my pediatrition. Outside is fine- indoors- well nope- its not wise- dangerous even. Yep even when your breastfeeding (all the La Leche members are probably choking with hatred right now). She was rude in saying it- but she was not lying.

Can't you even try to see it from the other side? I have three little guys- there are some days that I just need to get out too- and I want to have a drink without my kids- and if I'm leaving mine home- and paying dearly for that- I don't want to hear a crying baby at dinner. I'm not saying you are one of these mothers- but we all know they're out there- last time we went to Ciao Baby- a favorite restaurant of ours here in Long Island- a woman brought her two children. We got seated at 9:45 on a Saturday night. The one child screamed to get out of his seat at the top of his lungs and the baby cried as she tried to rock him in his carrier. She remained in the restaurant through dessert.

Now we've all been there- with the boys my husband & I frequent Friendlys, Chilis, Fridays- and we try to get there fairly early and sometimes they're cranky- heck sometimes I'm cranky! If I show up to a restaurant at 9:30 with my kids and they're screaming- guess what- it's MY fault- not the childrens. If more parents thought before they tortured their kids through an overtired dinner b/c the parents want to eat out- well we wouldn't even be having this "conversation".

Susan

 

[my4kids]

My child was sleeping - If he cried I would have left.

Our pediatrians differ on the baby being out at 3 weeks - If this is dangerous why do you have to take a 2 week old to the pediatrians office for a check-up with all of the runny noses and vomiters in the waiting room? No one was touching him and he was not touching anything so he was fine. I can't stand the people who let there kids act awlful in restaraunts either - I'm just saying you can not exlude me because I have kids.

 

[Calliaz]

I actually don't think that an adults-only restaurant is a bad idea--I have a kid and there are times I would love to have a quiet dinner with DH. OTOH, I don't like having kid and non-kid sections. First, why do I have to get stuck in the middle of 10 families with screaming kids instead of a childfree person or people there without their kids? Just because I have a child I have to be exposed to a higher concentration of kids? People with children don't necesarily like other people's kids.

Our DS went out to lots of meals with us on our trip (and some were "late" since we're from the west coast). We tried our hardest to get him to be polite and be well behaved--but he was 2.5. We'll take him out of the situation if he gets upset, etc. but he will still upset someone's dinner for a short time. I'm not going to send him to a babysitter on the off chance he's going to disrupt someone (in a communal eating establishment) for a minute. Especially in WDW. You are eating with other people and should not expect to be in a soundproof box. Of course, I also get peeved at people who let their kids run around, yell constantly, etc. My SIL is awful about that and I am embarassed to eat with her family.

I think it is a much better solution to have the restaurant give clear behavior expectations for all guests based on the type of atmosphere they want. If someone is unruly, they should be told to stop (or get their children to stop) or be asked to leave. If my DS was being a nuisance and a waitress came over and asked if I'd like our meals boxed to go, I'd get the hint. Of course, if it happened in Denny's, I'd be peeved and wouldn't go there again. It's much better to work together to make things as pleasant as possible for everyone instead of segregation and an us-vs-them attitude.

 

[Accentuate+]

Don't have kids but I can eat late enough to avoid most of them if I want to and can usually tune out all but the worst bad behavior offenses. Would love an adults only restaurant but don't think there will ever be one with that stipulation as 'official Disney policy'. I think Disney would be more likely to follow the V&A path and have a restaurant that is unappealing for bringing children but they'd blanche at the 'bad press' that specifically excluding children would cause.

What I love about this whole debate (and many debates on this board - heck, debates in real life) is that everyone thinks that they are the ones that are picked on in life because they can't have it all.

People without kids think they are being punished for having to put up with others' ankle biters when they mis-behave (heck, sometimes even when they are behaving).
People with kids think they're being persecuted for aforementioned ankle biters not being welcomed everywhere with open arms.

Skinny folks think they're in danger if a lap bar stops short because Pooh's cousin is next to them on a ride.
I wish my fat butt didn't keep me off Space Mountain.

People in ECVs and wheelchairs would probably like to just walk through the parks and the lines without a care or a pain just for a day.
People walking through the parks and the lines wish they could ride just for the day and get loaded on the bus early or whatever other perceived perks they've noticed.

and you know what...in their own way...everyone is kind of right. No matter who you are there are things in this world you might not be able to do. More commonly there are things in this world that you might have to work or think harder to do than someone else or that you might have to wait to do. Sorry to be blase but, really, "that's life". You focus on what you CAN do and you focus on how you can work things out to do the things that are currently denied to you for whatever reason and get on with your day. **edited because of an excellent point in another post and I didn't want to add another post to the thread*** Most of the time for every 'can't' there is and equal and opposite 'reward'. I have the freedom to pretty much do what I want, when I want and might have an extra dollar or two to do it because I don't have kids...but, there's many, many wonderful things about having kids that I miss out on.

Good grief, where did all that come from? I think I need to up my morning coffee.

Anyway, back to restaurants...I would love more adult type places at Disney. I really don't think saying a five year old can't have dinner at 'Restaurante de Adult' is any different than saying adults aren't allowed in the kid programs. Learning and accepting that there are adult experiences that they will have to wait for is, IMHO, very valuable for a child. Learning and accepting that I will probably be the focus of a criminal investigation if I try to sit and fingerpaint with a table of four year olds at Camp Mickey is something I have to accept.

and...they really allow kids at Pleasure Island??? Ick. I've only been to Disney with kids in tow (I actually pay for a friend and her child to come along, cause I like them but also because I do think that many parts of Disney are more fun with a kid) but want to plan a grown ups only trip with some friends. Pleasure Island was going to be part of that fun and I was looking forward to the Adventurer's club but drinking and carousing around kids is just a big no no for me. Oh well, plenty other things to do.

 

[Accentuate+]

I think it is a much better solution to have the restaurant give clear behavior expectations for all guests based on the type of atmosphere they want. If someone is unruly, they should be told to stop (or get their children to stop) or be asked to leave. If my DS was being a nuisance and a waitress came over and asked if I'd like our meals boxed to go, I'd get the hint.

I think your version of 'how to deal with your kids in a restaurant' is fair, reasonable and the best solution for everyone. Teach them to behave, if they get out of line a little - correct them, if they get out of line a lot - remove them. If a parent doesn't have that philosophy and isn't dealing with the situation themselves there would probably be all sorts of h*** to pay for any CM that tried to do it for them. I'd probably buy a drink and a front row seat to see the fits that some parents would throw because their dear little dimpled darling was asked to leave because they were misbehaving. We can dream, though.

 

[WillCAD]

I'm just saying you can not exlude me because I have kids.

So it's all about you then, and not about your kids?

Sorry, that logic does not compute.

Being a parent carries with it the most enormous responsibilities in teh world. As a parent, you are entirely responsible for every aspect of another person's life, and that responsibility comes with some pretty stiff penalties, one of which is that you CANNOT DO EVERYTHING THAT A CHILDLESS PERSON CAN DO. To try to live your life otherwise is to be irresponsible, because it means that you are putting your needs ahead of your child's, which to me is the very definition of bad parenting.

I'm not saying that you're a bad parent, but I do think that you are trying to have it both ways - the joys of parenting without the penalties - and in doing so you are not only affecting yourself, but your kids, and anybody within earshot if you take them to a restaurant.

Being a parent is all about responsibility. If you are unwilling to take on the responsibility, and the sacrifices it entails, then you shouldn't have kids.

 

[NewYawker]

An old crotchety lady felt the need to get out of her seat and come all the way over to our table to lecture me on how she did not think it was "wise" to take such a young baby out in a public place. She totally ruined my evening and we were doing nothing to disturb her. I also can't belive the nasty little posts here about "the entitled children". the people who made those type of posts sound very selfish and "entitled" themselves. Actually you sound "childish" - how ironic. Please don't sit next to me in any restaraunts.

Let me get this straight...you're offended about the "nasty little posts about the entitled children" but you have no problem yourself classifying an old woman as "crotchety"?! In my mind, labeling a child as "entitled" is far less critical and mean spirited as "old crotchety lady". If she were a young woman make a difference or was it the fact that she was old bother you? Now whos being childish and judgemental!
Your dinner was ruined because someone other than the people at your table disturbed you without provocation. Kinda what we're talking about here, isn't it?

 

[salmoneous]

My4,

Thanks for posting, even if I'm going to disagree with you. Always interesting to see the other side of an issue.

First of all, it's perfectly legal to discriminate, so long as you aren't discriminating against a protected class. I don't think kids or height are protected classes.

Second, the vast majority of parents don't take kids to fancy restaurants for the sake of the kids ("after all it's their vacation too"). The kids would almost certainly be happier playing games with a sitter or in one of Disney's clubs than being forced to eat at a fancy restaurant.

And I know you sometimes feel discriminated against as a mom, but those are the breaks. When you have kids, you get these wonderful bundles of joy that will provide you with endless satisfaction. But those kids require sacrifices. You're going to miss out on some sleep. And you might not be able to go to some fancy restaurants without hiring a sitter.

 

[salmoneous]

Would love an adults only restaurant but don't think there will ever be one with that stipulation as 'official Disney policy'. I think Disney would be more likely to follow the V&A path and have a restaurant that is unappealing for bringing children but they'd blanche at the 'bad press' that specifically excluding children would cause.

Just want to remind everyone that Disney *has* adults only restaurants on thier boats. They are wildy popular and don't seem to generate any bad press.

 

[my4kids]

So it's all about you then, and not about your kids?

Sorry, that logic does not compute.

Being a parent carries with it the most enormous responsibilities in teh world. As a parent, you are entirely responsible for every aspect of another person's life, and that responsibility comes with some pretty stiff penalties, one of which is that you CANNOT DO EVERYTHING THAT A CHILDLESS PERSON CAN DO. To try to live your life otherwise is to be irresponsible, because it means that you are putting your needs ahead of your child's, which to me is the very definition of bad parenting.

I'm not saying that you're a bad parent, but I do think that you are trying to have it both ways - the joys of parenting without the penalties - and in doing so you are not only affecting yourself, but your kids, and anybody within earshot if you take them to a restaurant.

Being a parent is all about responsibility. If you are unwilling to take on the responsibility, and the sacrifices it entails, then you shouldn't have kids.

What?!
It is bad parenting to treat your kids to a nice dining experience?
I can't do the things that childless people can?
Shaking and scratching head - Not worth responding...

 

[my4kids]

Let me get this straight...you're offended about the "nasty little posts about the entitled children" but you have no problem yourself classifying an old woman as "crotchety"?! In my mind, labeling a child as "entitled" is far less critical and mean spirited as "old crotchety lady". If she were a young woman make a difference or was it the fact that she was old bother you? Now whos being childish and judgemental!
Your dinner was ruined because someone other than the people at your table disturbed you without provocation. Kinda what we're talking about here, isn't it?

yeah - sorry about that choice of words....hey i'm heading there myself...I truly did not say that as an age related derogatory comment, but as a comment about her attitude...if you saw and heard her, you would understand.

 

[my4kids]

My4,


First of all, it's perfectly legal to discriminate, so long as you aren't discriminating against a protected class. I don't think kids or height are protected classes

Wow, we have protected classes? Is that like the endanger animals? How do I get into one of these "classes" And here all this time I thought we were all equal here in America.

 

[WillCAD]

What?!
It is bad parenting to treat your kids to a nice dining experience?
I can't do the things that childless people can?
Shaking and scratching head - Not worth responding...

Your earlier post didn't say, "You can't exclude my kids.", it said, "You can't exclude ME because I have kids."

I'm not saying that trying to treat your kids to a nice dining experience makes you a bad parent. I'm saying that demanding that the rest of the world bend itself around you so that you can drag your kids along when you do adult things is selfish.

NO. You can NOT do all the things a childless person can, because your kids are supposed to come first in your life. Demanding that restaurants let your infant in because YOU want to eat there is putting yourself before your kids. It means that you are demanding that the restaurant make accomodations for your infant because YOU want to eat there. Taking your infant to a nice restaurant has absolutely nothing to do with raising your kid - it has to do with YOU wanting to eat there.

Can a 5-year old truly appreciate a "fine dining experience"? Can an 7-year old appreciate California Grill (especially if they happen to be a nugget eater)? Can an 8-year old appreciate the culinary artistry of a place like V&A? Sure, a few extraordinary kids could, but most kids that age don't have the life experience to appreciate a "fine dining experience" any more than they appreciate Crystal Palace - "It was a pretty place, and the food was good, and Pooh and Tigger were there!" And an infant... forget it. Infants don't even have the cognitive abilities to appreciate anything besides light/dark, hot/cold, mom/not mom, and hungry/sleepy/changie.

Scratch your head a little harder, and give your motivations a long, deep look. Decide whether you are truly trying to give your kids a fine dining experience, or if you want that experience for yourself and don't want to deal with the logistical hassles of finding child care for an adult-quality evening out.

 

[melomouse]

Wow, WillCAD!

You have so eloquently expressed a very big issue here! It is exactly the selfish parent cleverly disguised as the UNselfish that makes my skin crawl as I read these board sometimes. You have asked the question that is underlying, which is..."WHOSE needs are REALLY being met?"

It runs throughout the world in general and the DIS in particular sometimes.Now, I do believe live and let live, and I practice my style of parenting my own way and try to find like-minded friends to parent alongside me through life's struggles and joys! But there is a major consequence to this underlying self centeredness disguised as "defending the rights of MY kid(to eat at CG, say..)"...

That consequence is adolescents without limits, adults without boundaries, a future workforce without respect because they think they are "entitled" to everything because they have been given it since birth through overindulgence by their parents. And when you get folks to discuss the REAL reasons they think adults only restaurants are a bad idea, eventually these parents are exposed in that selfishness.

I am impressed by your insightful and wise observations that reflect a maturity I wish we saw more often around here!!

 

[NewYawker]

My4kids, I think you chose your words exactly as you intended, you're just offended when it's somebody else judging you. I think some of us will continue to feel that there are parents who will oppose ANY exception of their children, no matter how inappropriate the circumstance. That's where the feeling of "entitlement" comes from. One poster a while back listed all the times her family stayed on Disney property. Now I know that's a common practice here, but she had the pomposity to list how many nights they stayed at each, and it totaled 12 visits for 79 days in just 2 1/2 years! By the looks of a picture, her daughter appeared to be around 4 years old. Yes, I believe "entitled children have indulgent parents" (thanks, mellomouse). Sure, legally you and your 4 kids will not be denied entry into Citricos at 9:30 p.m. As long as you and YOUR family get to choose your dining experience, who cares whether your behavior is disturbing to others? I'm not saying your family is like that, I have no idea maybe your kids are angels on earth, but understand there are plenty of families that are living in their own private Idaho and have no concern whatsoever about the other patrons who are trying to enjoy their meal. If we're at Bennigans or Denny's or whatever, I expect it. Keep finer restaurants at WDW where you and your family can enjoy them, I never suggested that families be denied the experience. I was only asking for 1 restaurant. Apparently 1 is too many for some.
If you could forward me the name of the crotchety old lady, I'd like to send her a dozen roses. Thanks.

 

[robinb]

If you could forward me the name of the crotchety old lady, I'd like to send her a dozen roses. Thanks.

Gee ... that was pretty snarky and uncalled for.