ADHD and selfishness?

[bluesaturn]

She is 7. From what you've described her whole life has likely been full of some sort of trauma, be it abuse or neglect or something else. She may be functioning at a much lower developmental age than 7. I think your expectations at this time are too high.

She might not have been fed regularly, or clothed appropriately, or given any positive attention. So she has learned maladaptive ways to survive that worked in the dysfunctional environment she lived in. She's not going to unlearn those ways in 2 months. You've told her you are family and you are there for her, but why should she trust you at this point? It's going to take time.

I think you should do your best to be very nurturing during this time. Although I'm sure you want to teach her as much as you can because of her past, she might not be able to handle all those "lessons" right now. Maybe you just need to focus on getting her through the day feeling calm and safe. Keep being good examples and instructing her to do the right thing, but don't worry so much if she doesn't "get" it yet.

Have you ever heard of Maslow's heirarchy of needs? The theory says that humans must have basic needs met before they can focus on other aspects of their personality. So a person must have their physiological needs (food, water, sleep), safety needs, and love/belonging needs met before they can focus on self-esteem, how they treat others, etc. It sounds like your daughter might still be adjusting to have her more basic needs met and might not be able to handle more than that right now. Here's the wikipedia page about the theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

 

[EMom]

If she is selfish, I'm not surprised. One, she is 7 y.o. Two, she's had one rough childhood.

Of course, she looks out for herself first. Who else has EVER put her first and foremost? This child has learned, through hard experience, that if she doesn't look out for herself and her own needs, no one else will....at least on a consistent basis. Being selfLESS would have been stupid and the opposite of a survival skill.

She is going to need time and plenty of it, to fully realize that she can count on you for EVERYTHING. You may be telling her this, but you haven't proven it to her yet. My bet is, she is still waiting for the other shoe to drop.

 

[NotUrsula]

OP ...... 10 years ago we adopted a 7 yo girl with ADHD and ODD from the foster care system, thinking we were doing something good. We would give ANYTHING to go back in time and change that course of events. I cannot even explain to you how bad it can get. In all likelihood, she (like my daugter) also has RAD and it is just not diagnosed yet. If that is the case, there is a total lack of compassion or empathy, and quite simply, that is what makes us human. It is NOT something that can be taught or imparted (as we foolishly thought). You are currently being given a gift by her ...... She is showing you who and what she is at her core and no amount of therapy or nurturing can fix this, regardless of what others think (we used to believe that, too). There is a HUGE difference between a biological child with ADHD and an adopted child, even though people would like to think otherwise. We are not the only people we know in this situation.

My advice (as cold as it sounds) is to run as quickly as you can to the agency she contracted her through and for the sake of your biological children, return her. They will be eternally grateful for NOT having ruined their life.

I am completely aware that I will probably be flamed for my insensitive comments, but having lived through this experience, I can handle ANYTHING!

I'm not flaming you, but I think that it's important to be careful to make a distinction between being selfish (mostly about things) and being devoid of empathy/compassion. Dealing with a child who is lacking in empathy is indeed a difficult thing to deal with, but regular selfishness and reluctance to share is perfectly normal for a child that age, and particularly for one who has been in the foster system and had very little that she could truly call her own.

When it comes to children, most psychologists that I have encountered use sad stories to test empathy. They tell a real tear-jerker story about a kid the same age (often a loss-of-a-pet story), and look for reaction to the story from the child being treated. Most kids will at least acknowledge that what happened to the other child was terrible, and sensitive kids may even cry about it. Kids who lack empathy won't do either one, and THAT is your red flag, not failing to be enthusiastic about a charity toy drive.

 

[Styx Fan]

OP ...... 10 years ago we adopted a 7 yo girl with ADHD and ODD from the foster care system, thinking we were doing something good. We would give ANYTHING to go back in time and change that course of events. I cannot even explain to you how bad it can get. In all likelihood, she (like my daugter) also has RAD and it is just not diagnosed yet. If that is the case, there is a total lack of compassion or empathy, and quite simply, that is what makes us human. It is NOT something that can be taught or imparted (as we foolishly thought). You are currently being given a gift by her ...... She is showing you who and what she is at her core and no amount of therapy or nurturing can fix this, regardless of what others think (we used to believe that, too). There is a HUGE difference between a biological child with ADHD and an adopted child, even though people would like to think otherwise. We are not the only people we know in this situation.

My advice (as cold as it sounds) is to run as quickly as you can to the agency she contracted her through and for the sake of your biological children, return her. They will be eternally grateful for NOT having ruined their life.

I am completely aware that I will probably be flamed for my insensitive comments, but having lived through this experience, I can handle ANYTHING!

Wow, you have obviously been put through the wringer by this child. I am so sorry that happened to you ....and to that poor child. But I have been stewing over this ever since yesterday and I just really want to respond. For the sake of other adoptive and potential adoptive parents and their children.

First of all, it is very true that most if not all adoptive children are said to have some type of attachments issues, going back to the primal loss of their birth mother. Attachment is a spectrum like so many things and RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder) is at the worst end. Full out RAD is truly horrible and destroys families. BUT there is no way from what little has been written here can anyone say the OP's child "in all likelihood" has RAD.

And there is no way you can say with any authority that "She is showing you who and what she is at her core and no amount of therapy or nurturing can fix this, regardless of what others think". Wow, just wow. To write off a small child so quickly and easily based on a short blurb on a Dis board. You were burned deeply by YOUR child, but it is not fair to other families to project your issues on them as if you have a crystal ball.

"There is a HUGE difference between a biological child with ADHD and an adopted child, even though people would like to think otherwise." ADHD is ADHD....depending on the child and THAT childs history, you may have to adjust how you parent the child and deal with ANY issues. It is just not correct to make this kind of blanket statment.

And yes, others have been in your shoes. I am aware of a couple in my real life. I am on several adoption lists and BB's and follow several blogs. I am aware of several really horrible situations and parents who I am sure would like to join you in turning back time. I am also aware of many very wonderful families formed through adoption that have also had to deal with significant emotional issues. It has been very, very difficult for them, but they have been lucky enough to get through it in one piece and not regret adopting their child.

And most importantly, there are many, many adoptions of older kids that are very successful. Forming a family is taking a risk...in our house my bio child is the one with ADHD/ODD. And he has taken years off my life and our family has always had to struggle with his issues. My adopted daughter is the "easy" child I do think being adopted as an infant has helped that. There is no guarantee any child will not cause chaos. Just the way it is.

People who adopt need to be very well educated on what they are getting into and not have any blinders on. Especially those special souls who take on an older child. Older kids have a history. They may be wounded. I think many adoption professionals gloss over the problems with an older child in order to get that child placed...I have especially heard of this in foster/adopt programs.

"for the sake of your biological children, return her. " Guess what? A kid is not an ill-fitting pair of shoes. You do not just return them. Sorry, this part just makes me angry and hurt for the children. The day I adopted my daughter was mine just as much as my son. Couldn't return him, can't return her. I have an acquaintance who disrupted an adoption last year. That child never stood a chance in that home. The family already had a child with severe food allergies and the parents just did not have left enough parental energy to take on this child from overseas. The reason they gave it was taking too much from the bio kids. They wanted this child to just come in and be the daughter they wanted. Didn't happen....they "returned" her...now another family is trying to help this poor child who was rejected by her supposed forever family. This she is prone to RAD now?

Again, my sincere sympathy is with you. You got sucker punched for sure. No flames intended, but others need to know it doesn't always happen that way, nor does it need to.

 

["Got Disney"]

I have friends that have 2adopted children both with ADHD one with ODD also...they are both teens but were diagnosed many years ago. She has always felt that the adoption did not help with their issues....

My son is not adopted and has ADHD and ODD....could not imagine what he would be going through being adopted also...

But at 7 as your daughter is...7 is 7and may need to wait a bit longer to see if for sure she does have ODD...

Children with ODD are much harder to deal and have a different face on it than what your adopted 7 year old may be dealing with....either way I do feel your love...and pain over the situation...

I send you many blessings...

 

[Kat77]

OP ...... 10 years ago we adopted a 7 yo girl with ADHD and ODD from the foster care system, thinking we were doing something good. We would give ANYTHING to go back in time and change that course of events. I cannot even explain to you how bad it can get. In all likelihood, she (like my daugter) also has RAD and it is just not diagnosed yet. If that is the case, there is a total lack of compassion or empathy, and quite simply, that is what makes us human. It is NOT something that can be taught or imparted (as we foolishly thought). You are currently being given a gift by her ...... She is showing you who and what she is at her core and no amount of therapy or nurturing can fix this, regardless of what others think (we used to believe that, too). There is a HUGE difference between a biological child with ADHD and an adopted child, even though people would like to think otherwise. We are not the only people we know in this situation.

My advice (as cold as it sounds) is to run as quickly as you can to the agency she contracted her through and for the sake of your biological children, return her. They will be eternally grateful for NOT having ruined their life.

I am completely aware that I will probably be flamed for my insensitive comments, but having lived through this experience, I can handle ANYTHING!

Wow, you have obviously been put through the wringer by this child. I am so sorry that happened to you ....and to that poor child. But I have been stewing over this ever since yesterday and I just really want to respond. For the sake of other adoptive and potential adoptive parents and their children.First of all, it is very true that most if not all adoptive children are said to have some type of attachments issues, going back to the primal loss of their birth mother. Attachment is a spectrum like so many things and RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder) is at the worst end. Full out RAD is truly horrible and destroys families. BUT there is no way from what little has been written here can anyone say the OP's child "in all likelihood" has RAD.

People who adopt need to be very well educated on what they are getting into and not have any blinders on. Especially those special souls who take on an older child. Older kids have a history. They may be wounded. I think many adoption professionals gloss over the problems with an older child in order to get that child placed...I have especially heard of this in foster/adopt programs.

Again, my sincere sympathy is with you. You got sucker punched for sure. No flames intended, but others need to know it doesn't always happen that way, nor does it need to.

I've been stewing over this also. My youngest DD has attachment disorder. Her issues are frustrating but even on her most challenging days, I can not imagine her not being in my life. If someone turned back the clock, I would tear the world apart to find her all over again. Older adopted kids will have attachment issues that does not make them unworthy of a loving family. Bianca, I hope things get better for your family.

OP- I think what you described is perfectly normal and nothing I would worry about. EMom phrased it well- Being selfLESS would have been stupid and the opposite of a survival skill! You've got a little girl who could only count on herself. It's going to take time.

 

[quentina]

We are in the process of adopting a seven year-old girl who has been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. I think there is no doubt that she has ADHD, but the ODD to me is really just a function of the lack of good parenting she's had for the past seven years. Her "oppositional" behavior is less and less of an issue the more that she sees that we don't let her get her way by throwing a tantrum. The one thing that we're still battling with her, though, is extremely selfish behavior. We have two sons, one younger than her and one older. She is always concerned that she is getting to do as much or more than they are and is always trying to see what all she can get from us or other relatives.

I don't know if this kind of behavior is a result of ADHD or growing up to this point without a lot of consideration by the adults in her life. We are trying to make her understand that she isn't the center of the universe, but it's a challenge. The other day we were in Dollar General and someone there mentioned that a local group was collecting items for the Joplin tornado victims. I thought we'd buy a few things, and I told her what we were doing and explained what had happened. She seemed to care for about half a minute and then she started seeing things that she wanted and only seemed to care about that.

I guess what I'm wondering if anybody else who has a child with ADHD experiences some of these same issues. If so, what have you done to try to get them over it to some degree? I understand that kids will think of themselves a lot, but we just want her to not always put herself first. The "me, me, me" attitude is something we are really trying to work on.

I have experience with both these issues. I adopted 2 from foster care. I think the lack of for so many years, causes them to want/want/want. When they finally start to get stuff (gifts etc), it is such a new thing to them, they just want more. My daughter has to out due everyone....she needs to be louder, sweeter, obnoxious etc.....we do go to a psychiatrist, they tell me that eventually she will grow out of it.

My son (her bio-brother) has ADHD and ODD......he is selfish but it is more along the lines of wanting to keep everything with him.

As my kids were in foster care, we participate with alot of the foster care days, fundraisers. Your kids will learn to give and enjoy it, it just takes time.

 

[Longsx3]

OP I think some of what you are seeing is typical of seven yr olds, only focusing for a few minutes about donations but also what you are seeing is a result of living in the foster care system. What stood out to me is the comment about doing as much or more as your sons, remember to a 7yr old coming out of foster care what she gets or gets to do compared to your birth children is how she is gauging your love, not to mention she is not use to doing or getting while in the system.

We have an 18 yr old boy living with that spent a good portion of his life in foster care was adopted 13 then kicked out at 18. He has never had a birthday party, not before or after he was adopted, never had cooked his own meal...lots of nevers! His parents wanted to FIX and were frustrated when they could not.

 

[torinsmom]

I know it's exasperating. Your comment though a reflection of your true feelings and you're entitled to them - is a bit hurtful as a mother of an ODD child. How fortunate you are that you won't have this child in your class much longer. As consistent as we try to be with my son, it's not as easy as you may think it is for us as his parents. That's all - just had to get that out.

I do not think it's easy and said so in my post. I can't imagine how hard it is to do this day in and day out. I am referring to times when this parent has done things like let her child bring a cell phone to school, because he wanted to bring it and she didn't want to have a battle with him.Of course, then I have to deal with it in a classroom of 20 kids. I have found with this type of child that you have to have firm rules and stick to them. When he has a fit, she will try to reason with him and it goes on forever. I was taught by the behavior specialist that was with him for 2 months to give him two choices--"You can do your writing or go and sit on your safe spot". I don't argue with him, don't try to cajole him, when he is in that defiant mode. Once he has calmed down, then we can talk about what frustrated him and what he could have done instead of getting so upset.

I'm sorry if I came off as not understanding. I have made so much progress with this child this year. Everyone honestly thought that he wouldn't make it until Christmas. He has made great strides in his behavior, and I am not too humble to say that I had a lot to do with that. I put a lot of time and energy into him, and believe me that I never let him know that I felt like pulling my hair out. He is going to first grade, and I hand picked his teacher. I don't often do that, but I care greatly about what happens to him.

 

[Edward7777]

I do not believe in the ADHD diagnosis. I would just ask what is the standard "human" we base that is normal on? I have seen far too many people accept ADHD as some sort of truth when it is actually hotly debated in the psychological community. Also, they do not take notice of ADHD in China and we can see how good their school system is.

 

["Got Disney"]

I do not believe in the ADHD diagnosis. I would just ask what is the standard "human" we base that is normal on? I have seen far too many people accept ADHD as some sort of truth when it is actually hotly debated in the psychological community. Also, they do not take notice of ADHD in China and we can see how good their school system is.

No doubt in China they don't allow kids with learning disabilities let alone ADHD in school.....

Do you have a child that has these issues....and granted will agree some kids are misdiagnosed but no matter what name you want to put on it children and adults suffer from it.

My son went from Fs in school to finishing up this year after medication and diagnosis to a 4 .33 GPA in high school. He is the one that came to me telling me that something was not right...that no matter how hard he studied alone and with the tutor he said he can't remember...

First day on medicine he felt a difference and in 3 days he said all the Cobb webs in his head were gone....

He is not on meds in the summer....like many children....my son plays Football for high school and is in practice....as for his diet he is very involved on eating healthy and stays away from many bad carbs so his diet may not be related to his issues....and if that was all the problem with all of the bad diets people have the majority of folks would also have ADHD....

So do you have a child or do you have ADHD.?