ADHD and selfishness?

[ms.yt]

We are in the process of adopting a seven year-old girl who has been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. I think there is no doubt that she has ADHD, but the ODD to me is really just a function of the lack of good parenting she's had for the past seven years. Her "oppositional" behavior is less and less of an issue the more that she sees that we don't let her get her way by throwing a tantrum. The one thing that we're still battling with her, though, is extremely selfish behavior. We have two sons, one younger than her and one older. She is always concerned that she is getting to do as much or more than they are and is always trying to see what all she can get from us or other relatives.

I don't know if this kind of behavior is a result of ADHD or growing up to this point without a lot of consideration by the adults in her life. We are trying to make her understand that she isn't the center of the universe, but it's a challenge. The other day we were in Dollar General and someone there mentioned that a local group was collecting items for the Joplin tornado victims. I thought we'd buy a few things, and I told her what we were doing and explained what had happened. She seemed to care for about half a minute and then she started seeing things that she wanted and only seemed to care about that.

I guess what I'm wondering if anybody else who has a child with ADHD experiences some of these same issues. If so, what have you done to try to get them over it to some degree? I understand that kids will think of themselves a lot, but we just want her to not always put herself first. The "me, me, me" attitude is something we are really trying to work on.

 

[Christine]

ADHD can be so different on each person that it would be hard to say that "YES, it's the ADHD" or "No, it's not."

My gut reaction to your post is that her selfishness is a behavorial byproduct of instability in her first 7 years or maybe she got NOTHING for so long that she cannot handle herself now. It's almost like an insecurity.

I think the ADHD does nothing to help that situation because most people with ADHD have poor impulse control so she probably just has a hard time suppressing those feelings that, I'm sure, a lot of 7 year olds have.

I would think, with time and consistency, you can calm this behavior down. I would assume that she's relatively new to your household and is trying to find a way to fit in or figure out how she fits in.

 

[ms.yt]

ADHD can be so different on each person that it would be hard to say that "YES, it's the ADHD" or "No, it's not."

My gut reaction to your post is that her selfishness is a behavorial byproduct of instability in her first 7 years or maybe she got NOTHING for so long that she cannot handle herself now. It's almost like an insecurity.

I think the ADHD does nothing to help that situation because most people with ADHD have poor impulse control so she probably just has a hard time suppressing those feelings that, I'm sure, a lot of 7 year olds have.

I would think, with time and consistency, you can calm this behavior down. I would assume that she's relatively new to your household and is trying to find a way to fit in or figure out how she fits in.

Yes, she's been with us for about two months. We've worked hard to make her feel like a part of the family, and we're hoping that as time passes she'll get better about it. She still sees the therapist once a week that she's been seeing while in foster care. I've mentioned this to her several times, but she just kind of blows it off and never really addresses it. All she seems to want to talk about is her defiant behavior, which really isn't that much of a problem since she's been with us.

 

[rodeo65]

We have a son with ADHD and daughter without. Of the two, I'd have to say he is more considerate and empathetic than she is, but he is also older. She is still in the me first and best for me phase.

She can be generous, but he seems more naturally inclined that way. I'd say she has improved over the past few months, so I suspect there is a maturity issue involved as well as a natural personality trait. I don't see anything that suggests to me that our son's ADHD makes him more selfish. Impulsive - yes, selfish - no.

 

[momgoose]

All that I can say is good luck. You are going to need it and have plenty of gut wrenching years.

 

[lovesmurfs]

What? A 7-year old isn't the center of the universe?

As PPs have said, selfishness can be from her personality, her past, or from the ADHD. She may just need more time to fit into your family's dynamic.

ADHD kids can be impulsive, don't like to wait, and want immediate gratification. I still have to remind DD11 before we go into the grocery store that we're shopping off MY list, not hers. And I have to remind her three or four times IN the store.

You could ask the doctor or therapist about another accompanying diagnosis to the ADHD. Both of my kids (DD11 and DS17) have ADD/ADHD (DD does not have hyperactivity) and have other issues as well. For example, DS has a supersensory disorder in which he can actually feel the seams of his clothes (he hasn't worn jeans since he was 4). My nephew has ADHD and Tourette's, and I know someone who is bi-polar and has ADHD.

Best wishes!

 

[MELISAZACK]

my ds13 has adhd -- and he is the most helpful and understanding and giving child I know.. he is more selfish with his own belongings then he is about wanting stuff for himself. He is an only child.. he always wants to help whomever is at stores asking for funds - such for joplin or the military or whomever - which is nice.- he likes to donate things too.
but some items that are his and have been for a long time whether he has out grown them or not he won't always give up regardless of the reason.
he states they are from his "childhood" and is not ready to part with them.. ok for now -- I think her issue is more due to her past then the adhd.. and if the therapist doesn't want to address - maybe time for a new therapist.

 

[Crankyshank]

My DBF has ADHD (diagnosed last year as an adult). While he is not selfish at all, he is very self-absorbed, which is supposedly a result of his ADHD.

 

[Wishing on a star]

The one thing that we're still battling with her, though, is extremely selfish behavior. We have two sons, one younger than her and one older. She is always concerned that she is getting to do as much or more than they are and is always trying to see what all she can get from us or other relatives.

Okay, I do know a bit about these kinds of things, and what you are describing sounds VERY COMMON in the case of a child who has not had a normal infancy/early childhood, institutionalization/orphanage/foster etc...

If you have not spoken to any real adoption experts (which might not be the the State Empoyees who push the paperwork to place these kids) then I would very highly recommend that you do this as soon as possible. Based on what you have posted, I am not seeing signs that you have really taken a lot of time and talked to experts about these types of adoption issues.

Many time, these kids, very simply, do NOT know about 'family', 'having their place' (which is not always 'me first'), etc...

Also, when I see the comments about what happened at the Dollar store, I have to believe that you have some very, very, high (unrealistic) expectations of this young 7 year old child. Even under the very BEST of circumstances, with a very mature and well adjusted child, I don't think that any percentage of 6-7 year olds are going to walk into a Dollar store and be concerned about disaster victims, or much else except for controlling the impulses with seeing all of that tempting stuff that they would like.

And, it is VERY likely that on almost every level, with her history, this 7 year old child is more like a 5 year old.

In short... based on a few short sentences posted here.. NO, I do not think I am seeing ODD. But, I am also not ruling out any future issues with this. If there diagnosis is there, then there very well may be a good reason.

 

[tlbwriter]

Is it selfishness or lack of empathy for others? I don't think they're exactly the same thing. Maybe if she was actually able to empathize with the tornado victims, she'd be interested in helping them, but she can't, so she's not interested.

 

[Malibustyle23]

While I do not have a child with ADHD or Add or ODD I do have DS7 and DD2. Personally it sounds like the behavior you are experiencing with her is normal behavior I experience everyday. Ive told my DS about the toys for tots campaign in the past and he cared for about 2 minutes then went right back to adding more to his Christmas list. Personally I think you are going through normal childhood behavior that may be magnified since her personality is new to your family and may not be just like your DS'.

Is she an only child prior to being adopted? If so she is going from an only child albeit an ignored and neglected child to a middle child. Perhaps she feels the need to fight to stay alive, earn attention, keep material items? If anything I would blame this on her conditions of living and recent circumstances rather than her medical conditions.

 

[bianca]

OP ...... 10 years ago we adopted a 7 yo girl with ADHD and ODD from the foster care system, thinking we were doing something good. We would give ANYTHING to go back in time and change that course of events. I cannot even explain to you how bad it can get. In all likelihood, she (like my daugter) also has RAD and it is just not diagnosed yet. If that is the case, there is a total lack of compassion or empathy, and quite simply, that is what makes us human. It is NOT something that can be taught or imparted (as we foolishly thought). You are currently being given a gift by her ...... She is showing you who and what she is at her core and no amount of therapy or nurturing can fix this, regardless of what others think (we used to believe that, too). There is a HUGE difference between a biological child with ADHD and an adopted child, even though people would like to think otherwise. We are not the only people we know in this situation.

My advice (as cold as it sounds) is to run as quickly as you can to the agency she contracted her through and for the sake of your biological children, return her. They will be eternally grateful for NOT having ruined their life.

I am completely aware that I will probably be flamed for my insensitive comments, but having lived through this experience, I can handle ANYTHING!

 

[Wishing on a star]

I hate to jump to any possibility of something as serious as RAD because a 7 year old, who is most likely at the developmental level of a 5 year old, may seem a bit self-centered, especially in a Dollar store. The two or three sentences posted simply is not enough information. I did not consider mentioning RAD in my earlier post.

This adoption could turn around and be a happy success story...

But, it seems that the OP needs some information and a more realistic basis to operate from here.

OP, I do, again, suggest that you seek out an adoption expert.
Perhaps you might start by contacting a larger, full service, adoption agency that handles all kinds of adoptions.
If they think it might be needed or helpful, they may be able to refer you to a psychologist who specializes in these types of issues.

If you have concerns, you owe it to yourself and your child to get some further professional opinion.

 

[dngnb8]

I see someone who has learned the system. Kids are incredibly intelligent. Kids in an adoption situation learn tools of manipulation. You say youve had them for 2 months. The child is testing boundaries. She wont feel like a child immediately depending on her past. Especially someone who has diagnosis to back them up. Many kids will use these diagnosis as a tool for manipulation.

Youre gonna have to be consistent with the adopted child and your genetic children. Im not sure if you already have a counselor, but if you dont, involve one, not just for the new family member, but for all of the family.

Best of luck to you and Congratulation on your new child!

 

[kymmyk13]

DD6 has ADHD, ODD, OCD and Sensory issues. I am somewhat offended by the way you describe why she has ODD. We also have DD20 who is in college studying to be a speech pathologist(so we did Ok with her). the fits do not only come from ODD but also ADHD. we have cycles of good and bad and I would not wish this on my worse enemy. It is a hard life, DD was diagnosised right before she was 3 and things are getting better as she is maturing but we still have fits every couple of months or so. she can be very self centered but will share if it is her idea or if we talk about it ahead of time. we do alot of talking about things that are coming up. If we are going to the store I tell her she can not get anything unless she behaves and then she an get a small bag of gummies bears or a thing of bubbles but you have to be very clear with these children. make sure you have a good psychiatrist because that can make or break this situation. But you have to also rememeber children with ADHD are usually less mature then their counterparts. These disorders effect the whole family.

 

[shaylyn]

Does she show empathy towards others? Lack of empathy is much more serious than general selfishness.

DS8 has severe ADHD. He has incredible empathy towards others and is the least selfish of all of my children! (he was also adopted from foster care)

 

[ms.yt]

Okay, I do know a bit about these kinds of things, and what you are describing sounds VERY COMMON in the case of a child who has not had a normal infancy/early childhood, institutionalization/orphanage/foster etc...

If you have not spoken to any real adoption experts (which might not be the the State Empoyees who push the paperwork to place these kids) then I would very highly recommend that you do this as soon as possible. Based on what you have posted, I am not seeing signs that you have really taken a lot of time and talked to experts about these types of adoption issues.

Many time, these kids, very simply, do NOT know about 'family', 'having their place' (which is not always 'me first'), etc...

Also, when I see the comments about what happened at the Dollar store, I have to believe that you have some very, very, high (unrealistic) expectations of this young 7 year old child. Even under the very BEST of circumstances, with a very mature and well adjusted child, I don't think that any percentage of 6-7 year olds are going to walk into a Dollar store and be concerned about disaster victims, or much else except for controlling the impulses with seeing all of that tempting stuff that they would like.

And, it is VERY likely that on almost every level, with her history, this 7 year old child is more like a 5 year old.

In short... based on a few short sentences posted here.. NO, I do not think I am seeing ODD. But, I am also not ruling out any future issues with this. If there diagnosis is there, then there very well may be a good reason.

She sees a therapist every week that is from a private agency contacted through DHS. Based on what they've told us about her past behavior, I can see why they diagnosed her with ODD. Apparently she was having "meltdowns" almost every day when being given any task she didn't want to do. In the two months she's been with us, we've only seen three of these. Each time she did it, she seemed genuinely remorseful after. I think she's learning that that type of behavior won't get her anywhere with us. She's admitted to us that when she was with her biological mother, that would get her what she wanted.

The instance in Dollar General was just fresh on my mind, so that's the example I used. The night before we just had a long talk with her about caring about others, so I was hoping it had gotten through to her better than it appeared to. I know that a lot of kids her age wouldn't really care, either, but I also have a friend who's seven year-old daughter decided to donate her birthday money last year to St. Jude without any prodding from others, so I guess stuff like that makes me think she should at least be concerned.

It has gotten better since she's been with us. I'm just hoping that we can continue to see improvements.

And I agree that developmentally she's more like a five year-old. She's very smart and does great in school, but she is definitely immature for her age, which I'm sure is a result of her childhood thus far. She always wants to watch Nick Jr. and read kiddie books, even more so than our five year-old son.

 

[tlbwriter]

The instance in Dollar General was just fresh on my mind, so that's the example I used. The night before we just had a long talk with her about caring about others, so I was hoping it had gotten through to her better than it appeared to. I know that a lot of kids her age wouldn't really care, either, but I also have a friend who's seven year-old daughter decided to donate her birthday money last year to St. Jude without any prodding from others, so I guess stuff like that makes me think she should at least be concerned.

It has gotten better since she's been with us. I'm just hoping that we can continue to see improvements.

And I agree that developmentally she's more like a five year-old. She's very smart and does great in school, but she is definitely immature for her age, which I'm sure is a result of her childhood thus far. She always wants to watch Nick Jr. and read kiddie books, even more so than our five year-old son.

Don't compare her to other 7 yr olds. Compare her to 5 yr olds.

 

[Christine]

I think my kids are pretty normal in the empathy and caring for others department but it would have never occurred to them to donate their birthday gifts to St. Jude's Hospital. While I think it's a great thing to do and not all that "rare" for a child to want to do that, I think that's a fairly high standard to compare her to.

 

["Got Disney"]

My son is 14 and has both ADHD and ODD....many times one comes with the other. Disciplining him is much different than my other son who does not have these two issues. He has no problem at school with his ODD but at home...that is because kids with ODD have a big problem with the word "NO"....but that is due to the disorder not the child.

There for one needs to find a different way to go about things. Also ODD is more of a defiance with the parents than the teachers...true it is a defiance of adults....but children with this disorder around their friends in school are different around the adults/teachers.

My son at school is very well liked and since medication is a straight A student...but at home at times I would rather o battle with a wild animal with sharp teeth that with him.

He works at keeping himself balanced but is not an easy task. We have to deal with him in a different way ...his brother is very patient with him...his brother is 17.

For you however you have to sort out what is what with her situation....just keep in mind that she is not like your other boys that don't have this issue so don't treat her as if she is...otherwise you will be in for many a battle. Pick your battles...

Good luck and if you have any question please feel free to pm me