Acid free...what actually is suppose to happen?

[Spinning]

if you use something that isn't acid free in your books what actually will happend down the road? is it that the paper becomes brittle? or is it like the old time photo scrapbooks where the sticky stops sticking and you are left with like a celophane tape and a mark?
I always hear that you shouldn't use anything with acid but I have no idea what will actually happen.

 

[piratesmate]

I can't remember either! Someone who is a CMC should know, though, right? I know the lignin is what's supposed to make the photos/pages yellow...at least that's what my CMC told me. I think acid is supposed to make things brittle

OK - You got me going. I had to know the answer. (Really I'm just procrastinating...I'm supposed to be finishing some gift albums, but I'm sick of working on them! )

Here's what I found....

" * Lignin is a chemical substance found in wood that bonds (glues) cellulose, making wood stronger; paper without lignin is not as strong. However, lignin breaks down over time, turning the paper brown and releasing acids.
* Acid: Acids actually can make paper better for writing or printing, but they gradually deteriorate or disintegrate paper -- whether used in the paper-making process, leached from other materials, or released during the breakdown of lignin. Over time, acidic paper becomes brittle.
* Buffering: A "buffer" in paper refers to the addition of alkaline materials into the paper-making process, in order to offset or cancel out the effects of acids. However, some studies suggest that excess alkaline materials may also damage paper."

ETA: I forgot to include the link where I found that info. It's a really interesting article! http://www.scrapbookcritic.com/2005-07-03.htm
An excerpt....

"Why don't scrapbook retailers sell pH pens? As a skeptic, I have to wonder why retail stores (like Michael's or Joann) don't sell pH pens. I can think of three reasons:

* The stores may suspect that some of the products they sell as "acid-free" might not be acid-free, and they may not want consumers to find out.
* The stores may suspect that consumers might not use the pens properly (this is what Creative Memories says in its Paper FAQs to discourages consumers from using pH pens -- but after I tested its papers with pH pens on July 20, Creative Memories admitted that at least one of its products did not remain acid-free after manufacture!).
* They may believe that pH pens may not be reliable or accurate (and on July 25 one pen maker admitted that a recent batch of its pens did not work correctly).
* The stores may hope that without any way to test existing papers, consumers will simply discard their current papers and buy all new papers from the store."

 

[Twigs]

Thanks Piratesmate, I couldn't remember exactly what each substance did either, just knew they were bad. As for the ph pen I got one recently and I thought I bought it in Michaels, but maybe I got it online? Now this is going to bug me!

 

[Spinning]

Interesting. Thanks
But I now wonder what is the time line. And if you are using buffering material suck as card stock if it will slow down the process?

 

[ddavis860]

Wow, thanks for the question and the info! This was very interesting

I'm not all that careful what goes in my books. I don't let the pictures touch the other stuff, but everything is included. I know I break rules, but I have boys and they don't care about the process of my books, they just want to see themselves. When I'm gone, they have the memories of everything in the book that I thought was important, and the memory of me sitting in the mess creating it

My books are better than what I got from my mother, which was a shoe box full for pics from all years. I'm still sorting....

 

[dreams91]

Wow, thanks for the question and the info! This was very interesting

I'm not all that careful what goes in my books. I don't let the pictures touch the other stuff, but everything is included. I know I break rules, but I have boys and they don't care about the process of my books, they just want to see themselves. When I'm gone, they have the memories of everything in the book that I thought was important, and the memory of me sitting in the mess creating it

My books are better than what I got from my mother, which was a shoe box full for pics from all years. I'm still sorting....

I totally agree.

 

[piratesmate]

I thought I saw a pH pen at Mikes recently too. That could just be an old article. I actually got mine at Dollar Tree. I never thought about how well it might or might not work...at least not since I tested a couple things. The CM paper was acid-free and Aleene's Tacky Glue was not! Big time!! That was enough for me.

I thought it was really interesting that CM admitted at least one of their papers doesn't stay acid-free after manufacture! Then what's the point?!?!?

As for the time frame question....I don't remember where I saw it now, but I was told this by a CMC also. CM tests their stuff in a special chamber that simulates over a hundred years. Again, I forget the exact number of years. One of their reasons for telling to use CM stuff is that while other products might be acid-free, the testing those products undergo isn't looking at long-term results.

I guess if you're making books that you expect your great-great-great grandchildren to be able to look it, then this is an issue. On the other hand, I'm doing this for me. I'm having fun doing it. DH has albums full of photos in special sleeves that are supposed to last forever. If someone wants to see the pix & my albums become yellow or brittle, they can just pull out his.

I could be wrong, but there's something about the CM mantra about their things lasting 100 years that tells me other acid/lignin-free things will be okay for quite a while too. You know what I mean? So it's 50 instead of 100...works for me.

BTW - I have scrapbooks done by my grandmother in the 1910s that are fine. I have some done by my great-great aunt that are also fine.

I also have a bunch of old photos that were stored in old shoe boxes (not acid-free) by someone else & they are fine. There were one or two boxes where some of the photos have weird spots on them....you can only see them when I scan them. I was told they're mold/mildew spots! Anyway, I'm fairly certain that this occurred when my parents had them in their basement.

 

[pjlla]

I thought I saw a pH pen at Mikes recently too. That could just be an old article. I actually got mine at Dollar Tree. I never thought about how well it might or might not work...at least not since I tested a couple things. The CM paper was acid-free and Aleene's Tacky Glue was not! Big time!! That was enough for me.

I thought it was really interesting that CM admitted at least one of their papers doesn't stay acid-free after manufacture! Then what's the point?!?!?

As for the time frame question....I don't remember where I saw it now, but I was told this by a CMC also. CM tests their stuff in a special chamber that simulates over a hundred years. Again, I forget the exact number of years. One of their reasons for telling to use CM stuff is that while other products might be acid-free, the testing those products undergo isn't looking at long-term results.

I guess if you're making books that you expect your great-great-great grandchildren to be able to look it, then this is an issue. On the other hand, I'm doing this for me. I'm having fun doing it. DH has albums full of photos in special sleeves that are supposed to last forever. If someone wants to see the pix & my albums become yellow or brittle, they can just pull out his.

I could be wrong, but there's something about the CM mantra about their things lasting 100 years that tells me other acid/lignin-free things will be okay for quite a while too. You know what I mean? So it's 50 instead of 100...works for me.

BTW - I have scrapbooks done by my grandmother in the 1910s that are fine. I have some done by my great-great aunt that are also fine.

I also have a bunch of old photos that were stored in old shoe boxes (not acid-free) by someone else & they are fine. There were one or two boxes where some of the photos have weird spots on them....you can only see them when I scan them. I was told they're mold/mildew spots! Anyway, I'm fairly certain that this occurred when my parents had them in their basement.

Keep in mind that the acidity that effects todays papers is a "newer" addition to paper making. The off-white and black papers of years ago didn't contain the bleachs and acids that today's papers do.... so they won't corrode as quickly. If you have 40-50+ year old albums on black paper, chances are they are just fine and not harming your photos. The black paper doesn't contain the items that will damage your photos. And those old shoe boxes may not contain a large amount of acid, like today's white shoe boxes. However, those sticky albums from the 1960s through today are really bad for your photos. I can seem evidence of discoloring and fading in my photos from those albums. Just a thought...............P

 

[RealMickeysGirl]

I had some photos in a scrapbook from my college days - back in the early 80's - and where the items from the facing page touched the photos, those photos faded and turned kinda red (if they were color).

I also am doing albums for DH and me. We don't have any kids so I am pretty sure we won't have any great-grandkids to look at our albums . IF we live to be 100, the albums only have to last a little over 50 years.

On a side note - when I was a CMC, I had a lady at a crop (not one of my customers but another consultant's customer) ask me why I bothered to make scrapbooks since I didn't have any kids. She was kinda rude about it to. She kept going on about "why bother...", "who will care...". Made me feel bad. I got over it though .

 

[MazdaUK]

I had photos from my last day in School in 1983 and they were in a sticky album - they were so faded! Even pics of my kids which have only been in albums for a coupple of years are sticky and bent. I've only been scrapping a year, so I did holiday and vacation albums first, then Disney, then our Canada vacation (this years) and in between I'm doing albums for each boy - I'm not even at DS(13)'s 3rd birthday yet! I'll go back and do weddings (mine and sister) and other holidays with DH when he was DF another time. When I retire perhaps