Accessibility of Halcyon?

[BillSears]

I wonder when the news will get out that the accessible cabins are larger than the regular cabins for the same price. On a real cruise they require proof of disability for you to reserve an accessible cabin. But for the Halcyon it's just a click away on the website and anyone could reserve it. I see some major abuse coming with this one and because of that having a very hard time booking an accessible room.

 

[Groot]

I wonder when the news will get out that the accessible cabins are larger than the regular cabins for the same price. On a real cruise they require proof of disability for you to reserve an accessible cabin. But for the Halcyon it's just a click away on the website and anyone could reserve it. I see some major abuse coming with this one and because of that having a very hard time booking an accessible room.

Yeah, just cause an accessible cabin has more room, it’s very attractive for people who just want it to store their luggage vs. somebody like us who need the extra room for their mobility device(s) and for the roll in shower.

Come to think of it, anything that’s meant for the disabled community is bound to be used by the able bodied just because it’s “more convenient”.

 

[lanejudy]

But for the Halcyon it's just a click away on the website and anyone could reserve it. I see some major abuse coming with this one and because of that having a very hard time booking an accessible room.

At least at this time, the Galactic Starcruiser is not available to book online. You can check general availability but must call to book. They may do some vetting for HA rooms at that point.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

I think this panic is getting ahead of itself. Plenty of powerchairs are the size of manual wheelchairs. They should be able to fit everywhere. Bathroom looked fine to me, that's always my concern. Well, and transportation. But this isn't the bus from Art of Animation, I'm sure they'll run it again for you. There's no way they're going to make a really disabled person transfer from a powerchair to a manual chair. This is a size issue, like Be Our Guest.

Those giant rental scooter ECVs, of course they won't fit everywhere. Right now, they're all over the halls at the peasant land hotels too and parked outside Be Our Guest. These rules can't say that politely, but there's a big size difference between a powerchair and huge rental scooter, and everyone knows it. Those things can't even turn around in a normal room. This experience looks clever, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're quite a few steps ahead and have an accessible storyline even. Of course it isn't going to work in a massive rental scooter. I'm surprised anyone expected that. Why would they make gigantic rooms for rental scooters?

Some power chairs are the same size as a manual chair, and some certainly have a small footprint - much smaller than an ECV. However, that doesn't matter if Disney CMs have been trained that anything with a motor is an ECV. That is what has happened in the parks. I can't guarantee whether that has happened also on the Halcyon, but I'm guessing it has been. I have been told - at more rides than I can count - that my tiny electric wheelchair

is a "scooter." I've been asked if I'm going to use a wheelchair instead - meaning manual and given blank stares when I point to my chair and say "this is a wheelchair." Anything with a motor is considered an ECV which is not what the ADA says. But CMs have been given all sorts of incorrect information, including that it's an OSHA requirement not to allow motors in certain areas (??). I am virtually certain that they will tell people in anything electric (including manual chairs with a power assist) that they are required to leave their chairs in the location as they would on a cruise ship because they're worried about people driving fast/recklessly (also prohibited by the ADA). And anyone who can't walk will be told they have to use a manual...which many of us can't. Which would pose an interesting question: can they run the transport back to earth when guests arrive and discover they literally cannot go anywhere?

 

[fabfemmeboy]

There are some cruise lines, including Disney, (I think) that will allow you to park and leave an ECV somewhere other than your cabin, if you do t have an accessible cabin.

I’m not very interested in leaving a relatively inexpensive ecv, especially when Inam dependent on it. I’m NOT leaving my much more expensive power wheelchair out of my sight.

Ba when I could transfer without assistance, I’d often go get my wife a morning cup of coffee while cruising. I couldn’t make it down the hall to retrieve a scooter, however.

Right, but...the Halcyon isn't an actual cruise ship. It's a hotel. It's a highly-themed hotel on a foundation in the ground in Florida. It was built from scratch in 2019-2021 with no requirements regarding buoyancy, dimensional restrictions, etc. There are reasons (albeit not great ones) why there can't be room in cabins on a cruise ship to fit an ECV: you're trying to shove literally thousands of people onto a floating vessel, which means rooms have to be tiny in order to fit in these dimensions. I get it. But this is a hotel. They could have built it any shape and size they wanted (within reason, but the lot was pretty decently-sized). They only have 100 rooms (smaller than any cruise ship except maybe a couple of the ultra-luxuries and one or two that go to Antarctica). There is no actual valid reason to ignore accessibility like this.

 

[Her Dotness]

At least at this time, the Galactic Starcruiser is not available to book online. You can check general availability but must call to book. They may do some vetting for HA rooms at that point.

And do any of us actually think Entitled Whoever will answer honestly if intent upon cadging some "necessary" extra space an accessible will give?

If questioned upon arrival (as IF!), it'd be something like, "Sadly, GrandPapa was unable to join us after all. But, we're all terribly excited to be aboard." <silky smile>

 

[lanejudy]

There are reasons (albeit not great ones) why there can't be room in cabins on a cruise ship to fit an ECV:

Who said there are no HA rooms that accommodate ECVs? There definitely are on cruise ships. And while this hotel was designed to mimic a ship, I have no reason to believe this hotel offers zero cabins that are wheelchair or ECV accessible. There simply haven't been pictures or details -- though I did find one report that there is at least 1 HA roll-in shower cabin and at least 1 HA tub cabin.

Seriously, people are hopping on this issue with little to no information and a lot of inaccuracies getting stated on this thread. Yes, I agree with @SteveMouse that it's very poor of WDW not to share accessibility info online similar to the info shared about nonHA cabins, but please let's stop spreading inaccurate info.

 

[Her Dotness]

Who said there are no HA rooms that accommodate ECVs?... I have no reason to believe this hotel offers zero cabins that are wheelchair or ECV accessible.

That's not the main issue of concern. We don't doubt there are a few accessible cabins.

The question we have is what's this FAQ about? This is what perplexes us. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Q. Where can I park my ECV or scooter during my Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser voyage?
A. There are designated ECV or scooter parking locations on each deck of the starcruiser. ECVs or scooters cannot be stored in the cabin or in hallways. [emphasis added]

And then, there's fabfemmeboy's post #24 above on the difficulties experienced because Disney regards powered wheelchairs as ECVs, a catchall term for anything not propelled by the user or pushed by an aide.

Why wouldn't we be suspicious?

 

[SteveMouse]

A pp stated:
There simply haven't been pictures or details -- though I did find one report that there is at least 1 HA roll-in shower cabin and at least 1 HA tub cabin.

That would be consistent with ADA requirements for a hotel with 100 rooms, I think. Now, what if those cabins just happen to be the suites, which we know exist. Is Disney going to allow people with wheelchairs/needing the accommodation to book them at “normal” cabin prices, or will one have e to pay the suite le el price, whatever it is/they are?

 

[lanejudy]

Then, what's this FAQ about? This is what we're perplexed about. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Q. Where can I park my ECV or scooter during my Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser voyage?
A. There are designated ECV or scooter parking locations on each deck of the starcruiser. ECVs or scooters cannot be stored in the cabin or in hallways. [emphasis added]

The post I quoted and was responding to was talking about cruise ships -- the ones typically found on the ocean. Contrary to what that person posted, cruise ships do have HA staterooms that are large enough for an ECV.

As to the FAQ you quoted, I did respond to that earlier in post #14 though I didn't quote so maybe it wasn't clear. Almost that same wording is used on DCL's website and it pertains to regular non-accessible cabins are not large enough for ECVs and maybe some personal power chairs; it does not mean that HA staterooms aren't offered nor does it mean the HA rooms can't accommodate a wheelchair or ECV. HA staterooms on a cruise ship are typically laid out differently than regular staterooms of the same category. This "Starship hotel" is designed to be like an ocean-going vessel so I expect it to be similar. WDW knows many guests may not book an HA accessible cabin therefore they warn about the parking.

While details of HA accommodations are not listed on the Galactic Starcruiser website, it does indicate to ask when you book. I agree that really isn't adequate information and I don't excuse them for the lack of info made public about accessibility.

 

[SueM in MN]

Not all powerchairs though. What about somebody who drives a Permie, Quickie, or Quantum? (See pics below) Those chairs, along with some Jazzy models are about the same length as a Vic10 (the most common scooter for rentals) when you take into account the footrests.

No, they may look that big, but actually they are not.
My daughter has a Permobil F5 vs power wheelchair.
Even though it looks very large, that’s because it’s very ‘dense’ - every inch of it is pretty solid. It is actually about the same size as her old manual wheelchair (a Quickie) and is significantly shorter than a Victory 10.

I looked up the Victory 10 specifications - it’s about 23 inches wide, 47 inches long for the 3 wheel version and 52.25 inches long for the 4 wheel.
The Permobil F5 vs is 25.5 inches wide and 42.5 inches long including the footrests (I measured my daughter’s and also verified on the Permobil website).

The more significant measure is the turning radius - the 3 wheel Victory 10 is 42 inches and the 4 wheel is 52.25 inches. That compares with the Permobil turning radius of 30 inches - so, a Permobil can go in a much smaller space.

 

[SueM in MN]

This is my daughter in her old manual wheelchair (Quickie GP)



These 2 pictures are my daughter in her Permobil F5 vs. It looks different standing, but the width and length are the same sitting or standing.
It looks huge compared with the manual chair, but the width and length are actually the same.
(Her new manual wheelchair is a bit narrower and shorter than the older manual wheelchair in the picture).

 

[Groot]

Some power chairs are the same size as a manual chair, and some certainly have a small footprint - much smaller than an ECV. However, that doesn't matter if Disney CMs have been trained that anything with a motor is an ECV. That is what has happened in the parks. I can't guarantee whether that has happened also on the Halcyon, but I'm guessing it has been. I have been told - at more rides than I can count - that my tiny electric wheelchair

is a "scooter." I've been asked if I'm going to use a wheelchair instead - meaning manual and given blank stares when I point to my chair and say "this is a wheelchair." Anything with a motor is considered an ECV which is not what the ADA says. But CMs have been given all sorts of incorrect information, including that it's an OSHA requirement not to allow motors in certain areas (??). I am virtually certain that they will tell people in anything electric (including manual chairs with a power assist) that they are required to leave their chairs in the location as they would on a cruise ship because they're worried about people driving fast/recklessly (also prohibited by the ADA). And anyone who can't walk will be told they have to use a manual...which many of us can't. Which would pose an interesting question: can they run the transport back to earth when guests arrive and discover they literally cannot go anywhere?

Yeah, seems like they’re going to have to add Fold and Go’s (and similar companies) to their lexicon of powerchairs. This past year, I counted at least 20 Magshocks and/or other similiar chairs from Fold and Go’s competitors over the week when I was there in October.

Sure, they’re not as big as a Quickie, Quantum, or Permie, but in no way are in the same classification as a scooter. They don’t even look the part.

 

[RoseGold]

So, did someone concerned actually call? Do we know if they are actually "ignoring accessibility"?

 

[SueM in MN]

…..
And then, there's fabfemmeboy's post #24 above on the difficulties experienced because Disney regards powered wheelchairs as ECVs, a catchall term for anything not propelled by the user or pushed by an aide.

Why wouldn't we be suspicious?

The bolded is not a true statement. Disney does not regard all power wheelchairs as ECVs.
I don’t know why fabfemmeboy has experienced issues, but I see power wheelchairs in line frequently, including folding ones, even the lines that say ECV users must transfer.
I do know that some of the foldable power wheelchairs are longer than more traditional power wheelchairs. They look smaller because they are not ‘solid’ like Quickie, Permobil, Quantum, but their actual footprint is the same or larger.
When I have looked up specifications for the folding power ones, I have found they give the ‘wheelbase length‘, which does not include footrests. More traditional power wheelchairs do include the footrests in the length and the ones I’ve looked up are similar length including footrests as the wheelbase length of many of the folding ones. If that is the case, the length is closer to ECVs and CMs may be basing decisions on length, not knowing the turning radius is smaller.

So, did someone concerned actually call? Do we know if they are actually "ignoring accessibility"?

Not that I have seen.
Until people using mobility devices actually report, we won’t know how accessible it is.
The standard cabins look snug, but do look like a power wheelchair would fit inside from the photos and floor plans I’ve seen. But, we won’t know until there are actual measurements or pictures with mobility device users.

I agree that since there are only a few accessible rooms, they might be trying to make sure the people reserving them actually need them. Very frustrating from a standpoint of people needing them, but I’ve seen multiple posts In the past where people reserved wheelchair accessible resort rooms without needing them just because of size.

 

[SteveMouse]

The phone number for the Halcyon that is publicly posted is not actually taking calls.

I have enquired with disability services and received an auto response suggesting it may be at least two weeks before a response is provided.

 

[bluecruiser]

The phone number for the Halcyon that is publicly posted is not actually taking calls.

I have enquired with disability services and received an auto response suggesting it may be at least two weeks before a response is provided.

According to an article on Blog Mickey, Disney temporarily closed the Starcruiser reservation phone line yesterday due to the Starcruiser being booked solid for the next 4 months. Or maybe not fully booked ... there might be a website glitch so the line remains closed.

 

[ZJ5/9D47]

The bolded is not a true statement. Disney does not regard all power wheelchairs as ECVs.

I’ve encountered quite a few CMs who automatically treat power wheelchairs as ECVs so if it’s not policy or CM discretion then it is a training issue. Either way, it’s happening and causing problems for guests at times and a lot of stress along with it and wasted time with having to get a coordinator involved.

 

[Groot]

In my opinion, Powerchairs and Scooters ARE NOT ONE IN THE SAME!

The biggest difference being in how you DRIVE THEM.

Powerchairs are driven traditionally by moving a Joystick mounted to one of the armrests. (Joystick handles, controllers and mounting styles may differ based on taste and/or need. Also, someone might move their powerchair by blowing into a straw mounted to the headrest and/or by pushing different button/switches mounted to the headrest.)

Scooters are ALWAYS DRIVEN by moving the front tiller (the front part) side to side while pushing in a throttle on the side. (May be done with one hand if needed.)

 

[mamabunny]

"Power chairs" are a fairly recent phenomenon in the world of mobility devices; until the last few years not many companies and products like F&G, AirHawk & FeatherFold+ existed. If your doctor approved an electric wheelchair it was typically a solid, heavy chair (like the Permobil or Quantum that Sue mentioned above) that could cost potentially north of $20k. Those electric wheelchairs were not available to order by just anyone - typically your insurance company would be involved, and your doctor's office as well as the vendor. It could take weeks (if not longer) to get your chair.

Now, anyone with $2500 and/or Affirm or Klarna can hop on the internet and own a folding "power chair" that is typically a lightweight (approximately 50 pounds or so) battery powered mobility device that uses a joystick similar to a traditional electric wheelchair. You can buy a generic one on Amazon and have it delivered to your door in less than a week.

I'm not criticizing these devices; I own and use one (a purple F&G named Figment, aka "Figgy") and I believe that they will help many people restore mobility; not needing to wait for doctor's office visits and insurance companies (not to mention a much lower entry price) means they are much more accessible to people who will benefit from them.

But, *technically* these are "ECVs" Which stands for Electric Conveyance Vehicle, as defined by Disney (see this page for that brief description) as "4 wheel vehicles" because they *are* Electric and 4 wheeled...

So, all of this is to say that I don't think that Disney is overtly training any of their CMs to call ALL personal mobility devices with motors "ECVs".

I do think that it is *possible* that the "Electric" in ECV (meaning battery powered) and the "4 wheels" is possibly leading some of the more diligent (and relatively recently hired) CMs to classify anything they see as a battery-powered mobility device as an "ECV".

That is not meant to be an apology on the part of Disney. Disney - like many companies - lost *years* of valuable employee knowledge and experience because of the pandemic. How Guests with power chairs are reporting being treated right could be an indicator of how serious that deficit of knowledge may be.