Abstinence Pledge Survey

[bicker]

Wow - 12 is so young to be actually putting the idea into their heads by telling them not to do it.......

To be fair, that may not be the case. Our national superstition is such that we won't even do much research that could tell us whether or not, and to what extent, 11 and 12 year old children are sexually active. Generally, research talks about ages 18-19, ages 15-17, and ages 14 "and under".

For that latter group, the rate of pregnancy, at least, is decreasing, but is not insignificant, but, again, unfortunately, we cannot know at what point (either 11, 12, 13 or 14) the rate becomes significant.

 

[bicker]

BUT you still have to tell them the REST of it.

Yes, well-said.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I don't know how you equated Roe v Wade with "purity balls" and girl's virginity - but how can it be MY CHOICE if the voters vote on it?

Its the woman's choice - not the country's, not the states - not my community - MY CHOICE alone - which is what Roe v Wade states.

I don't know if it was a poster here or on a different forum where I also was discussing this, but somebody quipped "I gave my husband the gift of knowing what the hell I was doing!"

And when it comes to gift-giving, why is it always about the woman giving the man "the gift"? The emphasis is so strongly and obviously on the female saving herself for a man. Where's my gift??

 

[glitterkittyy]

I must be a weird mom. I don't care if my daughters have a "gift" for their future husbands or not. Of course, I'd rather they wait until they are emotionally, physically and financially ready for the responsibilities that come with sex. I see my job as making sure they are educated about risks and responsibilities so that they are in control and healthy. Instead of buying a purity ring, I'm more likely to be buying them protection when the time comes. lol

 

[ZephyrHawk]

Hmmm....I did get to brag to my girlfriends after I deflowered DH...but I wouldn't exactly call it a "gift". I think what I gave him was significantly more appreciated, despite the fact that I was used goods.

 

[Mrs. Chamberlain]

The whole idea of the purity ring freaks me out. I'm 15, and not sexually active, but I think that if I do choose to make the decision to have sex, it's my decision. I'm not going to make some promise to "my future husband", a school, or my parents for something I don't believe is right.

I really think the purity rings do not work, and I am not suprised at all by the study. I know a girl who got a purity ring (just because of thr Jonas Brothers...). One day after lunch, we saw her and a guy coming from behind a building, and her neck was covered in hickeys.

 

[Kath2003]

I think it's naive to think a twelve or thirteen year old male or female can make a decision about sex without knowing the full extent of the hormonal and emotional urges that will take over their body in the forthcoming years.

I also think it's naive to expect teenagers to manage to control these urges when the vast majority of adults still struggle with them

I would rather teenagers be given a comprehensive sex education including the physical and emotional aspects of safe sex than be pressured in any way into a commitment they do not know that they can possibly keep.

Further, if they choose to make that commitment for themselves, I don't see why anyone else needs to be involved in that decision. We all make the decision to have sex alone, and we can make the decision to wait alone too.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I will comment on some of the thoughts that are appearing throughout this thread. Mind you, this is only my perspective:

1.) Adolescence is too young: I was 13 when I finally got my ring. I did my research and had to give my reasons to my parents. I am 24 and have never regretted the decision.

2.) Regarding it as a "gift" is wrong: I do not see it as a gift necessarily. Our society equates sex as the ultimate physical demonstration of love. I can tell my future husband (most likely my current boyfriend) that I loved him so much that I waited for him and only him. While I would never judge a man who has engaged in premarital sex, I do wish for the same thing from him, as a relationship should be equal.

3.) My parents were involved only in making sure I was educated about sex (like most parents) and because I asked them for the ring. The ring is merely symbolic of the promise. I do not shout it from the rooftops. The only time I mention it is when people ask me about it, or on threads like this. Honestly, I think most people assume it's a promise ring, and that is fine by me. It only comes up in conversation maybe once or twice a year. People wear jewelry or do things that are symbolic of their beliefs all the time. How is a purity ring any difference form wearing a cross or a Star of David, or putting a bumper sticker on your car that loudly (and sometimes vulgarly) proclaims your beliefs?

4.) One thing I've noticed is that when people find out I wear a purity ring, they immediately either a.) assume I'm judging them, b.) try to change my mind, or c.) both. I never have and never will use the phrase "used goods". I respect your decision to do what is right for your body, but it seems that if you decide to wait for marriage, the same respect is not accorded to you. I find it a rather amusing double standard.

ETA: Making the pledge does not mean that you are uneducated as to the alternatives. I think absolutely it is necessary for adolescents to be educated about safe sex. People seem to think that taking the pledge automatically means that you are naive. That is not always the case.

 

[Mr Man]

And if you think that your gym coach managed to encapsulate reality is his own philosophy then you were horribly misled.

This would be a matter of opinion in which neither side holds sway over the other......

except that I must point out that it worked wonderfully for me.....well, that and being a "band geek" with a raging case of acne and a mild overbite........

In the spirit of Доверяй, но проверяй, it is better to hope for the "best" while preparing for the "worst".

Da.

No: individual people. The point is to get such issues out of the hands of an invasive government, and give everyone the ability to make such choices in accordance with their own beliefs and values, rather than being compelled to comply with the beliefs and values of other people.

Yes, the individual voter should decide based on their own beliefs and values.....and it should be done at the state level at the highest.

I suspect that what you are trying to imply is a "middle-ground" position is nothing of the sort, but rather your "hope" that forces that support your personal perspectives can prevail and impose an extreme perspective that you like.

That's just my instinct about this, though. As Dennis Miller says, I could be wrong.

Truly, I imply nothing. I mean what I say and I say what I mean (kinda like Popeye but less eye squinting & forearm inducing spinach chugging).

I do concede your point on removing government from the equation......yet see the opposite occurring over the next four years (at least).

........something along the lines of Midnight Basketball as an avenue for teen violence "abstinence"...........in this I can agree with the survey, it didn't work.

Have to say that arguing point for point with someone who has a nom de plume that suggests peevish or petulant argument may not yield positive results.......but it is enjoyable.

[insert Dennis Miller quote here]

Human beings are human beings. They say what they want, don't they? They used to say it across the fence while they were hanging wash. Now they just say it on the Internet. Dennis Miller

 

[chobie]

I will comment on some of the thoughts that are appearing throughout this thread. Mind you, this is only my perspective:

1.) Adolescence is too young: I was 13 when I finally got my ring. I did my research and had to give my reasons to my parents. I am 24 and have never regretted the decision.

2.) Regarding it as a "gift" is wrong: I do not see it as a gift necessarily. Our society equates sex as the ultimate physical demonstration of love. I can tell my future husband (most likely my current boyfriend) that I loved him so much that I waited for him and only him. While I would never judge a man who has engaged in premarital sex, I do wish for the same thing from him, as a relationship should be equal.

3.) My parents were involved only in making sure I was educated about sex (like most parents) and because I asked them for the ring. The ring is merely symbolic of the promise. I do not shout it from the rooftops. The only time I mention it is when people ask me about it, or on threads like this. Honestly, I think most people assume it's a promise ring, and that is fine by me. It only comes up in conversation maybe once or twice a year. People wear jewelry or do things that are symbolic of their beliefs all the time. How is a purity ring any difference form wearing a cross or a Star of David, or putting a bumper sticker on your car that loudly (and sometimes vulgarly) proclaims your beliefs?

4.) One thing I've noticed is that when people find out I wear a purity ring, they immediately either a.) assume I'm judging them, b.) try to change my mind, or c.) both. I never have and never will use the phrase "used goods". I respect your decision to do what is right for your body, but it seems that if you decide to wait for marriage, the same respect is not accorded to you. I find it a rather amusing double standard.

ETA: Making the pledge does not mean that you are uneducated as to the alternatives. I think absolutely it is necessary for adolescents to be educated about safe sex. People seem to think that taking the pledge automatically means that you are naive. That is not always the case.

There is no disrespect accorded to the decision to wait for marriage. What most people have a problem with is the idea that a girl's body belongs to the men in her life which though may not have been your situation per se, but IS the sentiment behind the purity rings/balls. And that waiting makes you "pure" so I guess not waiting would made your "unpure"? There is judgment in the whole ritual just through the name.

Also, people who are not planning on waiting until marriage don't go around broadcasting it or making big rituals out of it. I understand that you don't talk about that much, but the fact that your virginity means that much to you that you wear a ring to symbolize it, seems kind of weird -- as it would to me if people started wearing something that symbolized they had sex before marriage. It's your own business why do you have to advertise in any way?

And how can you tell your husband you loved him so much that you waited for him to have sex when you made the decision at 13? Did you even know him then?

I think its fine that you are choosing to wait, but I don't think it's anything particularly wonderful either, and I don't think waiting until marriage makes you "pure" in any sense of the word. JMHO

 

[ntsammy5]

Yes, the individual voter should decide based on their own beliefs and values.....and it should be done at the state level at the highest.

This is why I am very happy to live in a Constituional Republic. There are some issues that are too important for majority rule.

 

[binny]

Personally, I dont care what anyone else thinks, I do think its a gift. Its something special you can only give to one person. To me, that is a gift. It wasnt at the time and I regret that.

Will I pressure my kids to take a vow? Nope not to me, that is between them and God. Would I support them either way? You bet. They have all the information, I make sure of that. Its their decision to make but I will tell them what I would hope for them, not pressure them, but they know.

Would I stomach a Ball for the occasion? not in this lifetime!

 

[eddad]

Also, people who are not planning on waiting until marriage don't go around broadcasting it or making big rituals out of it. I understand that you don't talk about that much, but the fact that your virginity means that much to you that you wear a ring to symbolize it, seems kind of weird -- as it would to me if people started wearing something that symbolized they had sex before marriage. It's your own business why do you have to advertise in any way?

And how can you tell your husband you loved him so much that you waited for him to have sex when you made the decision at 13? Did you even know him then?

I think its fine that you are choosing to wait, but I don't think it's anything particularly wonderful either, and I don't think waiting until marriage makes you "pure" in any sense of the word. JMHO

I really don't get the idea that waiting to have sex proves your love for someone anyway. I do understand that some religions push waiting for marriage, but I will never understand the idea that ones virginity is some sort of gift. Exactly what difference does it make (outside of religion) if members of a couple are virgins?
Why tie a womans worth or "purity" to virginity?
Why is this the one facet of a womans character the one that people chose to symbolize with a ring?.
Why not an intelligence ring, or a kindness ring etc..Why single out virginity in this way?

 

[Mr Man]

I will comment on some of the thoughts that are appearing throughout this thread. Mind you, this is only my perspective:

1.) Adolescence is too young: I was 13 when I finally got my ring. I did my research and had to give my reasons to my parents. I am 24 and have never regretted the decision.

2.) Regarding it as a "gift" is wrong: I do not see it as a gift necessarily. Our society equates sex as the ultimate physical demonstration of love. I can tell my future husband (most likely my current boyfriend) that I loved him so much that I waited for him and only him. While I would never judge a man who has engaged in premarital sex, I do wish for the same thing from him, as a relationship should be equal.

3.) My parents were involved only in making sure I was educated about sex (like most parents) and because I asked them for the ring. The ring is merely symbolic of the promise. I do not shout it from the rooftops. The only time I mention it is when people ask me about it, or on threads like this. Honestly, I think most people assume it's a promise ring, and that is fine by me. It only comes up in conversation maybe once or twice a year. People wear jewelry or do things that are symbolic of their beliefs all the time. How is a purity ring any difference form wearing a cross or a Star of David, or putting a bumper sticker on your car that loudly (and sometimes vulgarly) proclaims your beliefs?

4.) One thing I've noticed is that when people find out I wear a purity ring, they immediately either a.) assume I'm judging them, b.) try to change my mind, or c.) both. I never have and never will use the phrase "used goods". I respect your decision to do what is right for your body, but it seems that if you decide to wait for marriage, the same respect is not accorded to you. I find it a rather amusing double standard.

ETA: Making the pledge does not mean that you are uneducated as to the alternatives. I think absolutely it is necessary for adolescents to be educated about safe sex. People seem to think that taking the pledge automatically means that you are naive. That is not always the case.

I respect the choice you have made. I do not have much knowledge of the the purity pledge but have no problem with it as you have explained. My small experience with pre-marital sex was underwhelming (and I will leave it at that). I have been married now for nearly 20 yrs & the sex is still good (heck, it's swing from the wall like a great big gorilla great!!).

As an aside, I wonder if those who do not agree with the purity pledge, as explained on this thread, would have a different opinion of it if it was a different culture we were speaking of, by which I mean not Christian/conservative.

Say, a small group of islands in the South Pacific inhabited by small, pre-modern tribes......and documented by National Geographic, NPR & a whole host of "correctly minded" cultural anthropologists.

Would they be charmed by the simple concept of waiting to consummate the marriage on the day of the marriage and abstaining until then? Would we all remark on the wisdom of the ancients and such a demonstrated respect for tradition and continuity in their culture? Yes, I think we would.

It is culture we are speaking of after all. Christian conservatism is an important part of a culture that has flourished for over 2000 years and, in the interest of tolerance and diversity, deserves a modicum of respect......or at least an honest appraisal of why it is suddenly creepy.

JMO

 

[LukenDC]

Me too- its just weird. The worst was a TV show I watched and all these little girls were making promises to their dads and the dads were all talking about their daughters remaing pure etc- it was just so creepy!

Parents have a right to counsel their children regarding sexual matters, but it is really creepy for girls to be pledging their virginity to their fathers. There is something downright unwholesome about it.

Now if someone wants to pledge to themselves to remain a virgin until marriage and wants to commemorate that pledge with a ring, that is their business.

 

[chobie]

I respect the choice you have made. I do not have much knowledge of the the purity pledge but have no problem with it as you have explained. My small experience with pre-marital sex was underwhelming (and I will leave it at that). I have been married now for nearly 20 yrs & the sex is still good (heck, it's swing from the wall like a great big gorilla great!!).

As an aside, I wonder if those who do not agree with the purity pledge, as explained on this thread, would have a different opinion of it if it was a different culture we were speaking of, by which I mean not Christian/conservative.

Say, a small group of islands in the South Pacific inhabited by small, pre-modern tribes......and documented by National Geographic, NPR & a whole host of "correctly minded" cultural anthropologists.

Would they be charmed by the simple concept of waiting to consummate the marriage on the day of the marriage and abstaining until then? Would we all remark on the wisdom of the ancients and such a demonstrated respect for tradition and continuity in their culture? Yes, I think we would.

It is culture we are speaking of after all. Christian conservatism is an important part of a culture that has flourished for over 2000 years and, in the interest of tolerance and diversity, deserves a modicum of respect......or at least an honest appraisal of why it is suddenly creepy.

JMO

Broadcasting one's sex life or lack of, its just plain tacky IMO.

And why is it suddenly creepy? Because after thousands of years we have only recently gotten past the idea that a woman's worth is all about her having an intact hymen or that having sex before marriage makes a girl "damaged goods." There is no wisdom behind controlling female sexuality -- only Neanderthalic instincts. It has always been creepy, but that we have finally evolved away from that mentality that some people would like to return to that way of thinking is extremely creepy.

 

[glitterkittyy]

I went to a wedding once where a 19 year old was getting married and the father was telling anyone who would listen that his daughter had "earned the right to wear white" and I kept wondering each time I heard him say it (which was dozens of times that night) how the hello does he know? What'd he do, a physical exam? lol

Weird for sure for a father to be involved quite that much.

 

[shortbun]

Still, I think its creepy to promise your virginity to your father until he "gives you away" to another man (your husband) to take it from you. A girl's body belongs to her --not her father or her husband.

Ah-Freakin-men sista!!!! This is a dangerous societal trend, teaching young women that their bodies are NOT their own. Teach them to respect themselves, to cherish their virtue, to value other people with values and to NOT use sex as a tool, game or prize. Why not share one's promise to stay chaste with one's mother? Why JUST the father and not both parents? Why does it need to be a religious thing or a social thing? It should be private and personal. No ring is needed, no dance or party to celebrate. Young women need not be set up to fail in these ways. The young women I know who ended up in the hospital with horrible bladder damage from sex was afraid to admit that she had engaged in sex with her boyfriend. She was ashamed and it took the doctors/nurses/social workers a long time to get to the cause. Teach our daughters AND our sons to respect each other, give them the tools they need to protect and care for one and other and none of this will be necessary. Do not dmonize or criminalize sex to our children. Tell them it is a beautiful thing when shared with the right person and possibly dangerous, disappointing and demoralizing when used as casual entertainment.

 

[Mr Man]

Broadcasting one's sex life or lack of, its just plain tacky IMO.

And why is it suddenly creepy? Because after thousands of years we have only recently gotten past the idea that a woman's worth is all about her having an intact hymen or that having sex before marriage makes a girl "damaged goods." There is no wisdom behind controlling female sexuality -- only Neanderthalic instincts. It has always been creepy, but that we have finally evolved away from that mentality that some people would like to return to that way of thinking is extremely creepy.

What word should we use to describe popular culture's portrayal of Paris Hilton types and their sex tapes and wanton promiscuity (the dudes too.....you know, the long list of ever-changing partners")? Is tacky ok? I think creepy applies also. Mega big time.

Somehow, I do not think this unrestrained sexuality is what we are looking for. Granted, this is a bit of an extreme comparison......yet our children are watching this swill more than we know.....and are basing their behavior on this more and more........which brings us back to,

I am ok with the purity pledge and find it much less creepy than our "prevailing culture" as viewed through the media.

I also fail to find anything liberating about it......maybe I am missing something.

 

[eddad]

What word should we use to describe popular culture's portrayal of Paris Hilton types and their sex tapes and wanton promiscuity (the dudes too.....you know, the long list of ever-changing partners")? Is tacky ok? I think creepy applies also. Mega big time.

Somehow, I do not think this unrestrained sexuality is what we are looking for. .

I think that is equally creepy and tacky