Abstinence Pledge Survey

[MaryAnnDVC]

I simply chose the ring with my father. It is not an official ring, just a gold band with an amethyst heart. I doubt many people notice it or even know what it is. My father didn't make a big deal over it. In fact, the reason he didn't want to do it initially is that he said he didn't want me to make a commitment I would later regret. I have had no regrets. I am currently in a relationship with a wonderful man and we have been dating for a year. He has similar views.

I see that you posted about this after I wrote the following, but I'm keeping it in. Do you have a mother? Why was picking the ring something between you and your father? Of course, I'm sure there are cases where it just works out that way, but this seems to be a thing...a commitment to one's father specifically to remain a virgin, as if one's father holds the key to a daughter's virginity. I think that's where a lot of the "creepiness" comes into play. Isn't it even sometimes worked into the wedding ceremony (if I recall from a previous DIS thread) where the father gives a key or something to the groom? Ew.

I don't have a problem with a woman making the commitment to wait until marriage. Heck, I don't care what she does. But I find this whole purity ring, when it's a public proclamation and a group activity, ridiculous. It's all about a fad, like POW-MIA bracelets were back in the 60's/70's. The concept was great, but I KNOW that many kids wanted one for the "cool" factor and because everyone was doing it, and not because of what it actually represented.

Well, if you go back to the points made about being "creeped out", you'll see that those comments were all directed at public declarations. If they were private commmitments made to one's self and not publicized, then there would be nothing to be "creeped out" about.

EDA: I was horrified when my 6th grade daughter came home from school with a pledge to stay a virgin until she was married. Her body belongs to her, not the school.

Not only that, but who is going to announce (whether literally, or by not signing a pledge) to one's school and parents that um, no, they're not going to make that commitment. And if they do go ahead and sign it because they have to (because not to would bring consequences), then what does that prove? Reminds me of "self esteem" assemblies at school, where everyone cheers about how good they should feel about themselves, yet what's really going on in their lives is completely in contrast to actually feeling good about themselves. It's all for show, and to make adults feel secure, however unrealistic and misguided that security is.

JMHO

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Are you trying to tell me that teenagers are having physical relations outside of marriage??? I'm shocked!

Is there any good evidence that any of what schools teach children on the subject makes a difference? Assuming that the study the OP referenced is correct, it looks like abstinence education doesn't help (big surprise there). Does the safe sex education help? I can't remember (it was an awfully long time ago) listening to anything any grownup said on the subject.

 

[wvjules]

What is the purity ball? I'm afraid to google it from work.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

What is the purity ball? I'm afraid to google it from work.

From Wikipedia:

A purity ball (also known as a father-daughter purity ball[1] or purity wedding[2]) is a formal event attended by fathers and their daughters. Purity balls promote virginity until marriage for teenaged girls, and are often closely associated with U.S. Christian churches, particularly fundamentalist churches.[citation needed]

Purity balls can vary in many particulars, but fathers who attend typically pledge to protect their young daughters' purity in mind, body and soul. Daughters are expected to remain virgins, abstaining from pre-marital sexual intercourse. A stronger father-daughter relationship is promoted as a means to affirm spiritual and physical purity.

Criticism

Writer Eve Ensler criticizes purity balls for what she sees as the position of inferiority it puts the daughters in:
"When you sign a pledge to your father to preserve your virginity, your sexuality is basically being taken away from you until you sign yet another contract, a marital one...It makes you feel like you’re the least important person in the whole equation. It makes you feel invisible."[1] Purity balls have also drawn criticism from some Christians; in the Chicago Sun Times, Betsy Hart writes:
I'm an evangelical Christian who firmly believes that sex should be reserved for marriage. But I just can't imagine going about it this way with any of my four kids, son or daughters ... I can't help but wonder if a single-minded focus on virginity is an ironic, and unintended way, of sexualizing youth in a different way..."[3] The events have been called odd, creepy, oppressive of a girl's "sexual self-agency," as one USA Today columnist put it. Father-daughter bonding is great, the critics agree--but wouldn't a cooking class or a soccer game be emotionally healthier than a ceremony freighted with rings and roses and vows? Some academic skeptics make a practical objection: The majority of kids who make a virginity pledge, they argue, will still have sex before marriage but are less likely than other kids to use contraception, since that would involve planning ahead for something they have promised not to do. This puts them at risk for sexually transmitted diseases. [4]

 

[binny]

Why? I learned about the True Love Waits program when I was in middle school. My two best friends were part of it. I had to beg and plead with my father for the purity ring, which I found rather amusing. Of the three of us, none of us have broken our pledge (at least that I know of). One girl's older sister melted down her ring to make her husband's wedding ring.

Perhaps the difference for us is that none of our families pressured us into it and the decision was made base purely on our beliefs. None of us are naive as to the various options out there (birth control, condoms, female condoms, etc.).

For me, there was no public ceremony. I simply chose the ring with my father. It is not an official ring, just a gold band with an amethyst heart. I doubt many people notice it or even know what it is. My father didn't make a big deal over it. In fact, the reason he didn't want to do it initially is that he said he didn't want me to make a commitment I would later regret. I have had no regrets. I am currently in a relationship with a wonderful man and we have been dating for a year. He has similar views.

The ring is for me and nobody else. It is simply a symbol of the commitment I have made to myself and to God. It is not meant to encourage others to do the same or be judgmental against others. It is simply something that is special to me. I realize the choice is a very personal one, and I frankly don't give a hoot what you choose to do or not do. You will not find my father on one of those shows talking about it. Perhaps that is the difference. Those shows only show the very fringe of the group, the ones who are the most likely to make it a huge deal. You don't hear about the ones for whom it is what it was intended to be: a quiet pledge between the teen and God.

I do not find it surprising that those who took the pledge as a group and were pressured into it are more likely to break the pledge. It also does not surprise me that these kids do not know about safe sex as they are much more likely to live in families that will not talk about such things and go to private schools where the topic is forbidden. But if the desire comes from the teen themselves and they have done their homework and have a good solid rational for their belief, then it can be a good thing. No reason to be creeped out.

Good for you!


I applaud your willingness to speak up and tell your experience.

Is it enough to say that I wish I had taken that pledge when I was younger? I wish that I had that gift to give to my husband. That may sound naive and whatever. I was not a horrible person, did not go around sleeping with whomever but when I found my husband I do wish that I had that to offer to him.

BTW, we have been married almost 15 years, this isnt a new relationship.



I think its horrible that someone forces it on their children but if it comes from a teens heart, I dont see why ANYONE would have a problem with it.

 

[ols386]

I think the concept of taking the purity pledge is nice, but I don't necessarily think it's realistic. A teenager or young adult may take the pledge and have every intention of following through with it, but if they are in the right situation, their hormones can easily override any pledge or intention they had. I think if a teen wants to take the pledge, it's fine, but the parents still need to communicate with their children, on a regular basis, about protection, std's, etc., etc.

 

[ntsammy5]

Like others, this just weirds me out. My girls are 35 & 28 so I won't worry about it.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

The survey does not surprise me in the least bit. I had a friend with a purity ring who decided that if she took it off while engaging in "risky behavior" it was ok. Yeah, she wasn't the brightest friend I had. My sister's college roomate had taken a purity vow along with her boyfriend, yet they did everything, and I mean EVERYTHING but va jay jay intercourse. My sister was shocked. My parents never forced anything on us regarding our choices with sex. But we did know how to protect ourselves and respect our bodies. My sister did wait untill she was married. But there was not pressure to do so. It was her choice and it doesn't make her holier or better than anyone else.
I would never ever try to convince my children that staying abstinent is the only choice out there. Instead, I hope to instill in them respect for their body and choices, safety first and foremost, and the sense to share such an intimate act with someone they truly love and who loves them and respects them back.

 

[wvjules]

From Wikipedia:

Thank you. I'm not sure what I thought it was but a formal ball wasn't even on the radar.

 

[Mr Man]

As opposed to the window dressing placed over the reality that some would like to simply imagine doesn't exist.

I think my Gym Coach back in High School explained the whole thing to me in words my over-stimulated 13 year old brain could understand:

MrMan, if yer bits don't touch hers, yull never have an STD (or a bebe with a water head like yers)! Now drop down and give me twentah!!!!

Worked for me......for a while anyways.....

....and I think that is all most people want for their children......time for them to complete their childhood and develop the skills they will need to lead productive and happy lives.

JMO

....... as a personal decision some people decide to make themselves -- a choice -- rather than imposed as a national policy that ignores what is really going on.

....I agree with you and look forward to the day that we apply the same logic to Roe v Wade and get it out of our courts and national policy and into the hands of individual voters.

A place where there is no poverty, no disease, no ignorance, no intolerance, perhaps? Rather, the survey reflects hard, cold reality. I think you've read far more into the results than are there, seeking to argue against an extreme position that the survey does not support, instead of trying to argue against the middle-ground position that the survey ratifies (which is understandable, if not necessarily respectable, since I'm sure that it is far easier to argue against that non-existent extreme position than the position that the survey actually advocates). The survey doesn't say that abstinence never works.

You mean like a little place called Hope? I seem to recall this from somewhere......oh yeah, that last Democrat Administration (hehe)

I think there is a middle-ground position, and I think abstinence has a big part to play in preventing teen pregnancy and STD's.

 

[Colleen27]

I think its horrible that someone forces it on their children but if it comes from a teens heart, I dont see why ANYONE would have a problem with it.

I think that's the problem - too often, the pledge is forced/coerced and doesn't come from the teen's heart, or is elicited at such a young age that the child has no real understanding of what making such a commitment means.

I took an abstinence pledge as an 8th grader (12yo). It had nothing to do with my own values or any sort of personal commitment. It had everything to do with not having the courage to refuse to go along with something that was a part of my confirmation classes. Everyone took the pledge. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who, as an ignorant 12yo from a family where sex ed began and ended with "Just say no", had no real idea what I was promising and no desire to make any such pledge. But none of us were about to stand up in front of a teacher who knew all of our parents and refuse. It was just one more thing to check off in the confirmation process that most of us didn't have any choice about to begin with.

Of the handful of people in that class that I was close with, none kept their vow.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I also think that it's weird to call it a "gift to give your husband". It's not a gift, it's human nature....But that's just me.

And the purity balls: YUCK!!!

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I think that's the problem - too often, the pledge is forced/coerced and doesn't come from the teen's heart, or is elicited at such a young age that the child has no real understanding of what making such a commitment means.

I took an abstinence pledge as an 8th grader (12yo). It had nothing to do with my own values or any sort of personal commitment. It had everything to do with not having the courage to refuse to go along with something that was a part of my confirmation classes. Everyone took the pledge. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who, as an ignorant 12yo from a family where sex ed began and ended with "Just say no", had no real idea what I was promising and no desire to make any such pledge. But none of us were about to stand up in front of a teacher who knew all of our parents and refuse. It was just one more thing to check off in the confirmation process that most of us didn't have any choice about to begin with.

Of the handful of people in that class that I was close with, none kept their vow.

They actually did an abstinence class in my brother's school when he was in 6th grade. My parents talked with the principal and other officials about it and pulled him from any involvement. People were shocked as my parents were very "Christian conservative", but my mother was staunchly against it, and knew that when you teach abtinence only you are leaving out the crucial information budding adults need to protect themselves when real life comes into play.

 

[daisax]

I don't know if it was a poster here or on a different forum where I also was discussing this, but somebody quipped "I gave my husband the gift of knowing what the hell I was doing!"

 

[JARNJ3]

....I agree with you and look forward to the day that we apply the same logic to Roe v Wade and get it out of our courts and national policy and into the hands of individual voters.

I don't know how you equated Roe v Wade with "purity balls" and girl's virginity - but how can it be MY CHOICE if the voters vote on it?

Its the woman's choice - not the country's, not the states - not my community - MY CHOICE alone - which is what Roe v Wade states.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

I don't know if it was a poster here or on a different forum where I also was discussing this, but somebody quipped "I gave my husband the gift of knowing what the hell I was doing!"

Woot!

 

[JARNJ3]

They actually did an abstinence class in my brother's school when he was in 6th grade. My parents talked with the principal and other officials about it and pulled him from any involvement. People were shocked as my parents were very "Christian conservative", but my mother was staunchly against it, and knew that when you teach abtinence only you are leaving out the crucial information budding adults need to protect themselves when real life comes into play.

Wow - 12 is so young to be actually putting the idea into their heads by telling them not to do it.......

My nephew is 11 - and his school gave them the biological class on what was going to happen to their bodies - and how babies are made (girls and boys were separated) - and he's glad he knows the mechanics - but he's still at that "girls are icky" stage.....

Of course, he'd say he wouldn't do it!!!!

 

[bicker]

I think my Gym Coach back in High School explained the whole thing to me in words my over-stimulated 13 year old brain could understand

And if you think that your gym coach managed to encapsulate reality is his own philosophy then you were horribly misled.

....and I think that is all most people want for their children......time for them to complete their childhood and develop the skills they will need to lead productive and happy lives.

In the spirit of Доверяй, но проверяй, it is better to hope for the "best" while preparing for the "worst".

....I agree with you and look forward to the day that we apply the same logic to Roe v Wade and get it out of our courts and national policy and into the hands of individual voters.

No: individual people. The point is to get such issues out of the hands of an invasive government, and give everyone the ability to make such choices in accordance with their own beliefs and values, rather than being compelled to comply with the beliefs and values of other people.

I think there is a middle-ground position, and I think abstinence has a big part to play in preventing teen pregnancy and STD's.

I suspect that what you are trying to imply is a "middle-ground" position is nothing of the sort, but rather your "hope" that forces that support your personal perspectives can prevail and impose an extreme perspective that you like.

That's just my instinct about this, though. As Dennis Miller says, I could be wrong.

 

[bicker]

I don't know how you equated Roe v Wade with "purity balls" and girl's virginity

I understood the connection he was making; it goes back to what was alluded to earlier, i.e., the extremist perspective whereby a woman is chattel, to be "given" from her father to her husband.

but how can it be MY CHOICE if the voters vote on it?

Some people believe that the only valid choice is their choice.

IIts the woman's choice - not the country's, not the states - not my community - MY CHOICE alone

Of course, but that goes back to what I said about denying reality, i.e., some folks trying to distort reality by claiming that imposing their choice is actually providing choice.

 

[TheZue]

I think my Gym Coach back in High School explained the whole thing to me in words my over-stimulated 13 year old brain could understand:

MrMan, if yer bits don't touch hers, yull never have an STD (or a bebe with a water head like yers)! Now drop down and give me twentah!!!!

Worked for me......for a while anyways.....

.

I think this view should absolutely be included in sex ed. Abstinence should be advocated for strongly. BUT you still have to tell them the REST of it. They are going to need that info as adults. Hopefully they'll have the sense to wait, and if they do wait until adulthood it would be nice if they already knew what was going on with their bodies and what birth control options are out there from a source other than the internet when they get married.