Abortion thread

[chobie]

But the age of viability changes - I think that's what bothers me. (Yes, I believe life begins at conception. Bear with me.) A gal in my online pregnancy group had her son at 25 weeks gestation. He'll be going home in two weeks with no apparent problems. A decade or so ago, he would have no hope being born at that age. A decade from now, we may be able to save babies born at 15 weeks gestation. Who knows?

I believe in abortion for any reason up until the 12th week. After that it should between the woman and her doctor. I may be ignorant, but I don't think a woman can abort at 25 weeks for any reason, doesn't there have to be a medical reason for this?

 

[TheBellhop]

Yeah, I'm not going to eat my words. It is NO choice for the baby, either way. Now, that doesn't mean that I agree with it totally. Don't put words in my mouth. Didn't you read my other post?

 

[chobie]

Yeah, I'm not going to eat my words. It is NO choice for the baby, either way. Now, that doesn't mean that I agree with it totally. Don't put words in my mouth. Didn't you read my other post?

I did not put those words in your mouth. Sorry if you think I did.

 

[totalia]

it is very nice to have a civilized conversation of this just among us women. Usually people get so emotional on this subject so quickly.

I don't think chobie put any words in your mouth. Only quoted what you already said and pointed out that you had.

 

[katerkat]

I believe in abortion for any reason up until the 12th week. After that it should between the woman and her doctor. I may be ignorant, but I don't think a woman can abort at 25 weeks for any reason, doesn't there have to be a medical reason for this?

I think there does have to be a medical reason - but I was going with your quote: "as long as the fetus is dependent on the woman's body for life, not vialbe outside the womb, then it is the mothers choice." Obviously a fetus at 12 weeks is dependent on its mother right now. Another 25-weeker who wasn't as strong as my friend's baby could have also been just as dependent on his mother's body as a 12-weeker, though. Or one born at a hospital that wasn't as equipped qith the necessary stuff and doctors.

I don't know - my point is, I guess, that the age of viability is different for every child, and medical technology is constantly making the age shorter and shorter into the gestational period. What would you say if in 20 years, we could have a baby born at 12 weeks gestation survive outside the womb because medical technology has advanced that far? (I know, I know - more what if's!)

 

[TheBellhop]

it is very nice to have a civilized conversation of this just among us women. Usually people get so emotional on this subject so quickly.

That card was played awhile back.

 

[totalia]

That card was played awhile back.

I was just agreeing Bellhop.

 

[chobie]

I think there does have to be a medical reason - but I was going with your quote: "as long as the fetus is dependent on the woman's body for life, not vialbe outside the womb, then it is the mothers choice." Obviously a fetus at 12 weeks is dependent on its mother right now. Another 25-weeker who wasn't as strong as my friend's baby could have also been just as dependent on his mother's body as a 12-weeker, though. Or one born at a hospital that wasn't as equipped with the necessary stuff and doctors.

I don't know - my point is, I guess, that the age of viability is different for every child, and medical technology is constantly making the age shorter and shorter into the gestational period. What would you say if in 20 years, we could have a baby born at 12 weeks gestation survive outside the womb because medical technology has advanced that far? (I know, I know - more what if's!)

I would definitely have to reevaluate my stance if and when that came to be. I can only go on what we know now.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I've never said that the fetus isn't alive. But it isn't a viable life until it can live no longer attached to its mother. People may hate it when I say this, but until a fetus can live on its own, its mostly a parasite. *dons her flame retardent suit*

What do you think must take presidence? Without the parents, there are no children. If a parent will die because they are pregnant (thus killing them both), the parent must come first.

No flames...and I must comment on your wonderful tone in expressing your POV on this thread as everybody elses.

Sorry about your friend and that she had to make that unfortunate choice--and as pro-life as I am...I probably would have done the same thing.

This is where my confusion lies....they have saved babies born in the 20s week of gestation (22 or so on up).....the longer the gestation, the more success stories of the babies living fulfilling lives with no long term effects. So when does baby stop being considered a "parasite" and instead as someone who deserves their own chance at life with NO EXCEPTIONS. I'm sure that most rape/incest/just don't want baby abortions happen in the first trimester while those for mom's life can happen 1st or 2nd trimester.

3rd trimester abortions should not occur under any circumstances IMHO. By then you've had plenty of time for those pregnancies that were the result of a crime or bc failure or lack of bc. For mother's health...ob can just take the baby by c-section or early induction of labor.

I will be up front and honest--I am pro-life all the way!!! But if my pregnancy test came back positive (4 weeks gestation) and then found out that the pregnancy would kill me--I would be very scared to die. And if with 100% assuredness that I would die before the baby can live outside in the room..I would seek consultation from my pastor and then make the decision from there as appropriate to my condition.

However--I got an extremist piece of mail this week. My goodness...when I hear in the mainstream about how it's not a baby, it's an embryo or just a fetus--anything but a person....this piece of mail had a photo of a 6-week gestation aborted baby. Obviously at that short gestation, it couldn't live outside of the womb..but it certainly had all of the features (some not in detail of course as they were not fully developed) of a baby. Very tough pic to look at and it has more than cemented my opinions of abortion except from mom dying before baby will ever be viable for life outside of the womb.

Regarding the rape/incest--I am very curious to know published statistics on the incidences of succesful conceptions in these unfortunate acts.

I am having a hard time grasping the justification of abortion in these cases by law when I don't believe the stats to be that high. Wouldn't it just open up a loop hole for someone to lie about their circumstance and then worry about the possible consequences of that lie after the fact?

Thank you to all for your tone on this thread for an open and honest discussion.

 

[Beauty]

I am pro choice up to 12 weeks and then only if the medical need arises which it does sometimes.

 

[auntpolly]

I was just remembering something that happened to me in college and I'll tell you the story for what it's worth.

I once thought I was pregnant - and the first thing I thought about was an abortion. Part of the reason I even thought I was pregnant was because I was pretty pathetically naive and uneducated about reproduction, and after I realized I wasn't, I immediately got myself to the women's clinic and up to speed on birth control. And I just hope it was a thought born of panic and that I wouldn't have gone through with it had I been pregnant. I always thought I was pro-choice and yet against abortion, and yet there I was, thinking for a couple of days how I'd raise the money.

I just know from experience that we don't always know what we'd do in a crisis situation -- and that had I been more educated about sex none of it would have happened in the first place!

Judge me if you will - but that's my sorry tale!

 

[chobie]

I am having a hard time grasping the justification of abortion in these cases by law when I don't believe the stats to be that high. Wouldn't it just open up a loop hole for someone to lie about their circumstance and then worry about the possible consequences of that lie after the fact?

I guess if someone was desperate enough for an abortion they would lie about being raped, they would be desperate enough to use a coat hanger if abortion was illegal. Then we would have a dead woman and a dead potential child.

 

[DemonLlama]

I guess if someone was desperate enough for an abortion they would lie about being raped, they would be desperate enough to use a coat hanger if abortion was illegal. Then we would have a dead woman and a dead potential child.

I'm not sure this is enough justification for keeping abortion legal. Desperation does not justify making it easier to abort a child. It's an emotional plea, certainly, but not a logical or compelling reason to override the rights of the unborn baby.

 

[auntpolly]

I'm not sure this is enough justification for keeping abortion legal. Desperation does not justify making it easier to abort a child. It's an emotional plea, certainly, but not a logical or compelling reason to override the rights of the unborn baby.

The basic thing we disagree on, though, is when life begins, and so this isn't really the reason that any of us are pro-choice - I don't think, anyway. So we can talk about whether it is more important for a rape victim to have the right to choose, but in reality, we all have it. Not because we are making individual value judgements about the merits of each woman's case for an abortion, we're concerned only with the stage of her pregnancy.

 

[chobie]

I'm not sure this is enough justification for keeping abortion legal. Desperation does not justify making it easier to abort a child. It's an emotional plea, certainly, but not a logical or compelling reason to override the rights of the unborn baby.

As it stands now, the unborn fetus does not have rights and a large part of that is because of the carnage that was wrought from illegal abortion attempts. There is no logical reason that I can think of to force a woman to gestate an embryo until it becomes viable and as for emotional pleas, to use terms like baby or child instead of fetus or embryo is also an emotional plea IMO

 

[goofygirl]

Any of these women could be your daughter, mother, sister, teacher, doctor, neighbor, your child's teacher, babysitter....or a fellow DISer.

www.imnotsorry.net

These women are glad for the passage Roe V Wade and I am too. Lets keep it safe and legal.

 

[totalia]

Thank you very much.

The only thing that I must say (despite that I disagree with you) is that just because something has the features of something else does not mean that is what it is.

Most forms of color come from the animal trying to hide what it looks like. Australia has a lizard that looks like a patch of thorns. Until you get up close to it.

Features do not a thing make.

 

[DemonLlama]

As it stands now, the unborn fetus does not have rights and a large part of that is because of the carnage that was wrought from illegal abortion attempts. There is no logical reason that I can think of to force a woman to gestate an embryo until it becomes viable and as for emotional pleas, to use terms like baby or child instead of fetus or embryo is also an emotional plea IMO

The unborn fetus does have rights: see the Laci and Connor law passed this past year.

To clarify, the acceptable use of the term baby applies when? At birth? At the 25th week? I'm not trying to be facetious, I would like to know the differing interpretations.

 

[totalia]

The basic thing we disagree on, though, is when life begins, and so this isn't really the reason that any of us are pro-choice - I don't think, anyway. So we can talk about whether it is more important for a rape victim to have the right to choose, but in reality, we all have it. Not because we are making individual value judgements about the merits of each woman's case for an abortion, we're concerned only with the stage of her pregnancy.

Your right. I'm not pro choice because of when I believe life begins. I'm pro choice because bad things happen.

 

[auntpolly]

The unborn fetus does have rights: see the Laci and Connor law passed this past year.

To clarify, the acceptable use of the term baby applies when? At birth? At the 25th week? I'm not trying to be facetious, I would like to know the differing interpretations.

But had Laci been a month pregnant, for example, Scott would not have been charged with the baby's death.