Abortion thread

[totalia]

*nods* exactly. Thank you.

 

[soccercruiser87]

I think what she was getting at is that there is an attempt at a discussion and we'd just like to at least here more than one sentence. You think it's wrong in all cases? To save the mother's life? In the case of a rape? If you do, that's fine, but we're just trying to get at "why" we all feel the way we do - and I know it wasn't you that provided the "bumper sticker", but it's more of an interesting discussion if we move beyond cliches.

alright...my apologies to everyone, i just read some of the posts on the first page and missed the second page and just wanted to voice my opinion and say i didnt think abortion was right. Its taking a childs life away and if you didnt want a child to begin with then you shouldnt of done the thing that would lead up to having a child or having to worry about an abortion. Again, my apologies to everyone.

 

[totalia]

Ahh but then there is another problem. What happens if you WANT the child but you cannot physically or mentally be able to take care of one? Again, should you both die then?

 

[auntpolly]

alright...my apologies to everyone, i just read some of the posts on the first page and missed the second page and just wanted to voice my opinion and say i didnt think abortion was right. Its taking a childs life away and if you didnt want a child to begin with then you shouldnt of done the thing that would lead up to having a child or having to worry about an abortion. Again, my apologies to everyone.

You don't have to apologize - I could tell that you hadn't seen what had been said. Do you want to get into it more? Do you want to share whether or not you feel that abortion is wrong no matter the circumstance?

 

[JuliaEeyore]

I don't know what I would have done in her exact situation, but I told my husband when I was pregnant(found out at 4 weeks) if we had to make a choice between me and the baby I would have choosen the baby. That is just how I feel. I would still give my life for my son, I just love him that much. I loved him that much when he was only 4 weeks gestation inside me.

What if you had a two year old son and a husband that depended on you... would you give your life for that 4 week old fetus? Wouldn't that just devastate your husband and living child? That makes me so sad to think about.

I know you said you don't know what you would have done in that situation, but you said you'd give your life for your son, and then followed it up with " if we had to make a choice between me and the baby I would have choosen the baby." How did that make your husband feel? I know my husband would just be crushed, if he knew he was going to lose both me and my unborn child, just because I felt it necessary to choose the child over myself.

I couldn't do it. If it were me, I would have made the same choice Totalia's friend did. But then again, I'm very pro-choice.

Julia

 

[soccercruiser87]

thats a very good point but if you are unsure about if you are able to care for the child or anything like that you shouldnt of done the thing that would lead up to it. If you realize you cant take care the child while your pregnant than put the child up for adoption. But you do have a good point there and thats probably a point where i would have to agree with you.

 

[auntpolly]

You know, we're talking hypothericals and maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we don't any of us know what we'd do in that situation.

Thank God it's our decision to make, though, for the time being, anyway.

 

[chobie]

alright...my apologies to everyone, i just read some of the posts on the first page and missed the second page and just wanted to voice my opinion and say i didnt think abortion was right. Its taking a childs life away and if you didnt want a child to begin with then you shouldnt of done the thing that would lead up to having a child or having to worry about an abortion. Again, my apologies to everyone.

If that's your opinion that a person who does not want to have a child chould not have had sex, and that is the term for the "thing" that leads up to having a child, then what about rape? How can one have prevented that?

 

[goofy4tink]

Pro-choice here. But, while I am pro-choice, I do not automatically think that abortion is right in every instance. And what is right for me today, may not be what's right for me in 5 years. So...I may say abortion in wrong today but I will defend your right to have one if it's the right choice for you.

Unfortunatly, life is not black and white. And one's perspective changes over time. I don't think that we can say that if someone is raped it's okay to terminate her pregnancy. Or if someone is ill and it will impact her treatment it is okay to terminate her pregnancy, yet say that if a 17 y/o girls attempt at birth control failed, well, that's life honey...you took a chance...live with the consequences. Abortion is abortion. It's the same procedure for each instance. If it is still legal than everyone get's to do what is right for them, at the precise moment in time. Will they regret having an abortion later down the road? Maybe. But that is between the woman and her conscience.

Yes, a heated topic. Everyone fervently believes they are right. Maybe we should do what is right for us and let others live their lives as they choose. If you don't want to have an abortion, fine. But don't make the decision for others.

 

[soccercruiser87]

If that's your opinion that a person who does not want to have a child chould not have had sex, and that is the term for the "thing" that leads up to having a child, then what about rape? How can one have prevented that?

ok then thats when i would support abortion, deff. a girl being raped then getting pregnant isnt good at all, i would deff. support an abortion then.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Ahh but then there is another problem. What happens if you WANT the child but you cannot physically or mentally be able to take care of one? Again, should you both die then?

then don't get pregnant


I was in a car accident at 15 weeks. I was really injured. I took nothing stronger than a tylenol until I delivered. Extremely painful c-section. My spine wasn't in the right place, so when they gave the epidural it took a lot of poking. I went through 6 weeks of really painful recovery plus taking care of a newborn. I didn't start receiving treatment for my back until 6 weeks post-pardem. Still in physical therapy, could never take pain medication because it makes me sleepy. I am in a lot of pain. It is hard but well worth it. It is a sacrifice.

I have a friend who should not have children. She was born premature and was born with only half of her vertebre. Her body's frame is phsyically unable to carry a child even though she is still fertile. She has a fiance who totally understands. They don't have intercoarse. That way she cannot get pregnant and will not have to have an abortion.

Some people will always think differently on this topic. It is not all black and white. But there is prevention.

 

[chobie]

then don't get pregnant


I was in a car accident at 15 weeks. I was really injured. I took nothing stronger than a tylenol until I delivered. Extremely painful c-section. My spine wasn't in the right place, so when they gave the epidural it took a lot of poking. I went through 6 weeks of really painful recovery plus taking care of a newborn. I didn't start receiving treatment for my back until 6 weeks post-pardem. Still in physical therapy, could never take pain medication because it makes me sleepy. I am in a lot of pain. It is hard but well worth it. It is a sacrifice.

I have a friend who should not have children. She was born premature and was born with only half of her vertebre. Her body's frame is phsyically unable to carry a child even though she is still fertile. She has a fiance who totally understands. They don't have intercoarse. That way she cannot get pregnant and will not have to have an abortion.

Some people will always think differently on this topic. It is not all black and white. But there is prevention.

Accept in the case of rape. Or when the BC fails. Or when you planned on having a child and then found out you and the child will die.

 

[totalia]

But you don't always have the option of placing the child up for abortion. In my friends case, carrying the child to full term would have resulted in both of their deaths long before the child was able to be born.

So which would you have chosen? Both of your deaths to choose the life of the baby?

I'd have chosen the same as my friend.

I hope you don't think I'm just picking on you. What I'm actually trying to do is get you to think of real consequences and choices. Things are not so cut and dry.

I have a one and a half year old nephew. I love him dearly and I'd willingly die for both of them. That said... my sister was in a BAD car accident in 1998 that should have killed her (she only survived because of her own stubborn heart and the fantastic doctors) and we were told that she would likely never be able to carry a child to term because doing so could kill them both. The reccomended that she not get pregnant. When she did, the doctors were scared that the baby would spontaneously abort because of the pressure in her abdomen from the plastic plate in her chest.

If the doctors had reccomended an abortion (they didn't but she was on bed rest the last few months of her pregnancy), I would have agreed with them. The dangers to my sister and to the baby's life were far far to great. I'd rather have them both don't get me wrong.

But if I had to choose, my sister would always come first over that of an unborn baby.

Perhaps that is horrible of me. But I think it is also realistic. My sister could always have another baby. Losing the darling baby boy would be heartbreaking but she can have another. She is the mother, her life must come first when a baby's hasn't even begun yet.

 

[MrsKreamer]

Yes, a heated topic. Everyone fervently believes they are right. Maybe we should do what is right for us and let others live their lives as they choose. If you don't want to have an abortion, fine. But don't make the decision for others.

ITA

 

[MrsKreamer]

I hope you don't think I'm just picking on you. What I'm actually trying to do is get you to think of real consequences and choices. Things are not so cut and dry.

I completley understand REAL consequences. I stated above that not everything is black and white. I stated that don't know what I would have choosen in her situation. I just gave my oppinion. I think about real choices everyday. Afterall I am completely resonsible for another human life. I don't think you are picking on me, just that you underestimate my inteligence.

 

[auntpolly]

You know what bugs me the most about the pro - life politicians? I really believe that rich people will always be able to get abortions, and if the people who want to overturn Roe vs Wade succeed, the people who will suffer are poor people.

If a senator's daughter gets pregnant and wants an abortion, there are always doctors who will do it for a price.

 

[chobie]

You know what bugs me the most about the pro - life politicians? I really believe that rich people will always be able to get abortions, and if the people who want to overturn Roe vs Wade succeed, the people who will suffer are poor people.

If a senator's daughter gets pregnant and wants an abortion, there are always doctors who will do it for a price.

Or if they can't find a doctor in this country, then they'll just send their princess to Europe for a "vacation".

 

[MrsKreamer]

I seriously doubt that it will get overturned. Too dangerous.

 

[totalia]

then don't get pregnant

Why do people say that? Bad things happen. Being pregnant doesn't make that any less likely. As you know personally, bad things can happen WHEN your pregnant.

Should nobody get pregnant then just because something MIGHT happen?

 

[DemonLlama]

Man, I know I am going to regret getting into this, and I usually just lurk on debate threads, but here I am posting in spite of my better judgment. I've already donned the flame-proof suit

I would like to address the two areas that this thread has focused on:
1. Rape
2. Mother's life in danger

1. Rape is a terrible thing. Those who belief that life begins at conception, however, cannot get past the realization that killing the baby is only another terrible thing. I can certainly see where those who do not belive that life begins at conception would disagree. And before you ask, yes if I became pregnant because of rape, I would have the baby. I could not take a life. (And yes, I am pro-life and anti-death penalty.)

2. Mother's life in danger, the medical necessity to save one life by ending another, gets me into territory that becomes an issue of self-defense. The mother has a right to save her own life.

For those interested, here is a link to the award winning Frontline episode that will break your heart, whather you are pro-life or pro-choice:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/twenty/watch/abortion.html