ABD China changes?

[sayhello]

Wow, that is very extreme. If they hadn't been to China in a while they're no more likely to have it then your coworker!

Exactly. But they have Chinese passports, so - no boarding! Really, really over-reacting!

Sayhello

 

[lovetotravel]

Informative article by New York Times about COVID-19 and Travel:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/20/travel/coronavirus-advisory.html

 

[AddictedtoTravel]

A coworker of mine, who was supposed to be cruising with his family and in-laws next week had to cancel, because his in-laws, who are Chinese nationals, have been banned by the cruiseline from boarding the ship. They haven't been to China recently; they are here, staying at his house, but just because they are Chinese nationals. Wowza! *THAT* feels like an over-reaction!!

Sayhello

Was that on a Disney Cruise?

 

[sayhello]

Was that on a Disney Cruise?

No, Royal Caribbean.

Tobi

 

[blabadie]

Exactly. But they have Chinese passports, so - no boarding! Really, really over-reacting!

Sayhello

I think it is impractical and somewhat unfair, but I suspect the rationale is that Chinese nationals are statistically much more likely to have been in contact with recent travelers from China than non-Chinese nationals, making them more likely to be asymptomatic carriers at time of boarding. I suspect it's more meant to reassure cruise customers/protect from lawsuits than anything else because....

...IMO it is pretty naive to enact draconian rules for Chinese nationals who haven't visited China in the last month, when there are zero restrictions/screenings/questions regarding recent travel from South Korea, Japan, etc.----places where there is starting to be significant community spread.

Sadly, I think it's going to get more and more difficult to ensure a "safe" cruise ship as this virus spreads so much globally.

 

[blabadie]

I came back to report at 100% success rate in getting refunds for my OYO trip. I got "no refunds" as the initial answer from most of the hotels/airlines, but they relented when I refused to go away. If you wind up cancelling, then I think you will get some money back if you are tenacious.

Wanted to report back in case there were others with (non-ABD) reservations for SE Asia....

We were successful in getting our March "nonrefundable prepaid rate" hotel reservation cancelled with 100% refund---without having to argue with the hotel. (This was at the Four Seasons Koh Samui in Thailand. My understanding is that Four Seasons is waiving all cancellation penalties for any properties in the Asia Pacific region through the end of March.)

I was very pleased with the gracious customer service given we weren't really owed anything since we knowingly---and in hindsight foolishly---booked the cheaper nonrefundable rate. Not to mention that Thailand is not currently on the CDC's travel restriction list---we just personally weren't comfortable taking our kids there right now, especially with also having to connect in Singapore.

We lost the cancellation fee with SingaporeAir, but will get most of our airfare refunded. Perhaps we could have been successful getting the cancellation refunded too if we fought it via phone. However, the fee was a reasonable amount and the convenience of just clicking a button online and being done with it won out.

 

[lovetotravel]

Not good for Asia trips as today the CDC raises health alert in Japan to Level 2, as well as Korea. Since most flights to/from USA go through China, Japan, or Korea, this is concerning.

Warning - Level 3, Avoid Nonessential Travel ---- CHINA
Alert - Level 2, Practice Enhanced Precautions ---- JAPAN, KOREA
Watch - Level 1, Practice Usual Precautions ---- HONG KONG

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/coronavirus-japan

 

[AquaDame]

A coworker of mine, who was supposed to be cruising with his family and in-laws next week had to cancel, because his in-laws, who are Chinese nationals, have been banned by the cruiseline from boarding the ship. They haven't been to China recently; they are here, staying at his house, but just because they are Chinese nationals. Wowza! *THAT* feels like an over-reaction!!

Sayhello

That really does seem like a stretch... people aren't always logical with their reactions though. The Jade district in my city (where a lot of the more authentic Asian restaurants and establishments are) is feeling a serious lull in customers and hit to their bottom line right now. It seems people are actively avoiding the area due to an unfair assumption that they'd be the first to fall ill from visiting relatives and such. Or perhaps not, but I can't imagine why people would stop visiting an otherwise extremely popular (and tasty) area of our city en masse. To my knowledge no one has been sick in the area - though we did have that lovely gentleman who bragged about circumventing quarantine rent a car and drove through on his way from Seattle to Eugene.

FWIW they eventually did confirm all passengers except the one 83 year old came back negative.
https://komonews.com/news/local/man...fected-cruise-ship-arrives-at-sea-tac-airport

 

[Theta]

Oh my, this is in Italy!

Schools closed in 6 regions with 26 million people.
Police checkpoints to stop people entering or leaving.

Universities are closed, sporting events canceled, the Venice carnival is canceled, business are being ordered to close. Italy is taking drastic measures to stop the outbreak.

- 152 infected, 3 dead and they have no idea who is patient zero.

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

Even if Disney is procrastinating on canceling your trips this spring and summer, you can count on them eventually doing so. The virus spread just keeps getting worse and is not going to be contained anytime soon. As hard as it is to be patient, you should just wait for your trip to be officially cancelled rather than canceling yourself and losing money on cancellation fees.

 

[lovetotravel]

Italy added to CDC watch list.

Warning - Level 3, Avoid Nonessential Travel ---- CHINA
Alert - Level 2, Practice Enhanced Precautions ---- JAPAN, KOREA
Watch - Level 1, Practice Usual Precautions ---- HONG KONG, ITALY, IRAN

 

[morgan98]

Oh my, this is in Italy!

Schools closed in 6 regions with 26 million people.
Police checkpoints to stop people entering or leaving.

Universities are closed, sporting events canceled, the Venice carnival is canceled, business are being ordered to close. Italy is taking drastic measures to stop the outbreak.

- 152 infected, 3 dead and they have no idea who is patient zero.

I posted our story on the Community Board as well. My husband is flying into Milan on Wednesday for what is supposed to me a month long stay in Italy. I am scheduled to join him on March 12th. For the first 9 nights he has an apartment in Florence, where there are currently no know cases. He is taking a wine certification class and test there. He has reservation in Reggio Emilia immediately following Florence, but that is in the general area of the outbreak and the train station is currently closed.

After we met up in Milan, we were supposed to be going to Alba in the Piemonte, a few days near Trento and then on to Trieste - all basically in regions that are currently in the news.

We are fortunate in that we go to Italy a couple of times a year - my mother was born in the Veneto and my husband has dual American/Italian citizenship. But, I was/am looking forward to the trip. I am trying to balance the risk in going vs. jumping the gun and cancelling. I am not worried about catching the disease necessarily, but being on vacation where all of this going on does not sound like fun. Plus, from my experience with Italians, including plenty of relatives who live there, they are somewhat over the top and paranoid with health issues anyway. Plus, there is always the chance that we get there, it escalates and we somehow end up in an area that is quarantined.

Since most of the issue in Italy is in the North (north of the Po River), we have also considered heading South. But Southern Italy in March is somewhat depressing as many things are still closed. But I am considering some options.

We will cancel if we need to. However, if it gets bad enough that we can't travel to Italy, something tells me all of this is going to take awhile for things to get back to normal.

 

[Travelling135]

We're debating cancelling our ABD to Scotland this summer. Our PIF date is close and we are considering just avoiding travel to Europe this summer. We had planned to visit a couple of other countries while we were there. It's hard because it's so unknown at this point, but the recent concerns in Italy are making us think twice.

 

[Travelling135]

We're debating cancelling our ABD to Scotland this summer. Our PIF date is close and we are considering just avoiding travel to Europe this summer. We had planned to visit a couple of other countries while we were there. It's hard because it's so unknown at this point, but the recent concerns in Italy are making us think twice.

 

[blabadie]

I posted our story on the Community Board as well. My husband is flying into Milan on Wednesday for what is supposed to me a month long stay in Italy. I am scheduled to join him on March 12th. For the first 9 nights he has an apartment in Florence, where there are currently no know cases. He is taking a wine certification class and test there. He has reservation in Reggio Emilia immediately following Florence, but that is in the general area of the outbreak and the train station is currently closed.

After we met up in Milan, we were supposed to be going to Alba in the Piemonte, a few days near Trento and then on to Trieste - all basically in regions that are currently in the news.

We are fortunate in that we go to Italy a couple of times a year - my mother was born in the Veneto and my husband has dual American/Italian citizenship. But, I was/am looking forward to the trip. I am trying to balance the risk in going vs. jumping the gun and cancelling. I am not worried about catching the disease necessarily, but being on vacation where all of this going on does not sound like fun. Plus, from my experience with Italians, including plenty of relatives who live there, they are somewhat over the top and paranoid with health issues anyway. Plus, there is always the chance that we get there, it escalates and we somehow end up in an area that is quarantined.

Since most of the issue in Italy is in the North (north of the Po River), we have also considered heading South. But Southern Italy in March is somewhat depressing as many things are still closed. But I am considering some options.

We will cancel if we need to. However, if it gets bad enough that we can't travel to Italy, something tells me all of this is going to take awhile for things to get back to normal.

Just wanted to say I can sympathize. My husband is on expat assignment in India. The kids and I live there most of the time, but come back to the U.S. about one month out of 3. We're in the U.S. now and should have flown back in March but we've decided to stay put for the next couple months and DH just come and visit here in a few weeks.

Like you, my primary fear is not the (hopefully low) chance of actually catching the virus on the plane or in India where there is no current outbreak as far as we know. My big fear is the kids pick up something (e.g. regular flu, strep throat, etc.) and I'm nervous to take them to the doctor for fear of them being put in a quarantine hospital while awaiting COVID-19 test results. Granted, they would probably tell us just to self-quarantine at home or maybe not even mention it, but even the tiny possibility of my kids being sent to the govt hospitals that are being used for COVID-19 quarantine purposes in India sends chills up my spine---they don't even have a/c and it is hot year round in Mumbai. I don't even want to think what an actual outbreak in India would look like.

So for now my kids and I are staying put in the U.S. with DH planning to visit for a week and a half in March and then joining us again in late April for a mutigenerational vacation (that includes a Disney cruise--hopefully that still seems safe by then). I tentatively plan to take the kids back to India after that in Mid-May.

Anyway, just wanted to say I know where you are coming from and honestly, for me, an optional vacation would just not be worth the worry. But...I will admit I am a BIG worrier so calmer folks might feel quite differently. Plus if you're not traveling with kids there are a lot less concerns about picking up the random bugs that children tend to do with their suspect hygiene habits.

 

[morgan98]

Just wanted to say I can sympathize. My husband is on expat assignment in India. The kids and I live there most of the time, but come back to the U.S. about one month out of 3. We're in the U.S. now and should have flown back in March but we've decided to stay put for the next couple months and DH just come and visit here in a few weeks.

Like you, my primary fear is not the (hopefully low) chance of actually catching the virus on the plane or in India where there is no current outbreak as far as we know. My big fear is the kids pick up something (e.g. regular flu, strep throat, etc.) and I'm nervous to take them to the doctor for fear of them being put in a quarantine hospital while awaiting COVID-19 test results. Granted, they would probably tell us just to self-quarantine at home or maybe not even mention it, but even the tiny possibility of my kids being sent to the govt hospitals that are being used for COVID-19 quarantine purposes in India sends chills up my spine---they don't even have a/c and it is hot year round in Mumbai. I don't even want to think what an actual outbreak in India would look like.

So for now my kids and I are staying put in the U.S. with DH planning to visit for a week and a half in March and then joining us again in late April for a mutigenerational vacation (that includes a Disney cruise--hopefully that still seems safe by then). I tentatively plan to take the kids back to India after that in Mid-May.

Anyway, just wanted to say I know where you are coming from and honestly, for me, an optional vacation would just not be worth the worry. But...I will admit I am a BIG worrier so calmer folks might feel quite differently. Plus if you're not traveling with kids there are a lot less concerns about picking up the random bugs that children tend to do with their suspect hygiene habits.

Sorry to hear about your situation as well.

We have no children - so that is one less element of worry. However, I get where you are coming from. I caught the flu a few weeks ago while traveling for work. If I was currently in Italy with any of the symptoms I had then, they would be stopping trains saying I had Coronavirus. This very thing happened on a train last night from Italy to Austria. Luckily the people identified tested negative. To your point, all it takes is one thing to end up on the wrong side of things.

While I would not say I am a worrier, I am fairly pragmatic. The other side of this is I do not want to be alarmist either as the world cannot afford to shut down over this (at least in my opinion). While I realize there have been deaths, they are generally to people in certain high risk demographics. Almost half the cases in Italy involve people with no symptoms who are quarantined at home and it has not spread across the entire country. So I am struggling with weighing the pros and cons. Like you said, it is just a vacation, but regular travel to Italy is part of who I am and the thought of the impact this can have just makes me sad - and the Italian economy needs all the help it can get. Tourists immediately cancelling everything would have a devastating impact on the country.

I am sure that if we go the conservative route and cancel, things will get better and if we proceed, things will continue to slide! LOL!

Best of luck to you with your upcoming travel plans as well.

 

[lovetotravel]

We need a new name for this thread post! Maybe we should change it to "ABD Virus Changes?" LOL. It's no longer China changes we are concerned about, its all trips that is and will be affected.

On top of the virus itself, I fear being quarantined, detained, denied entry, and healthcare in another country for my children. My PIF for Asia summer trip is due soon and I am having anxiety about going and will probably cancel.

@morgan98 I love that northern region of Italy and have visited several times. It is very difficult to get the supplies and meds that we're used to in those more remote parts.

Regarding ABD Scotland, it's concerning as my Asia trip, and understand that it's probably also difficulty to cancel and predict.

 

[Woodview]

We're debating cancelling our ABD to Scotland this summer. Our PIF date is close and we are considering just avoiding travel to Europe this summer. We had planned to visit a couple of other countries while we were there. It's hard because it's so unknown at this point, but the recent concerns in Italy are making us think twice.

We might have to cancel our holiday , from U.K to Florida this year If an outbreak happens in U.S.A.

Will stay in Europe insead

 

[blabadie]

We're debating cancelling our ABD to Scotland this summer. Our PIF date is close and we are considering just avoiding travel to Europe this summer. We had planned to visit a couple of other countries while we were there. It's hard because it's so unknown at this point, but the recent concerns in Italy are making us think twice.

My suspicion (given the frequency of inter-country travel) is that right now, most of Europe would report similar results to Italy if they started testing as extensively as Italy. That being said, I remain hopeful things will improve by summer but who really knows.

Honestly, I've been surprised that we haven't seen a major increase in U.S. cases since the CDC has started testing flu-like symptoms for COVID-19 in 5 major cities. I would sadly not be surprised if that started to occur in the next few weeks.

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/hai-types/cdc-seeks-test-some-flu-symptoms-covid-19

 

[Donalyn]

I agree with PP - I don't think that there is any way to truly contain this. Since it can spread before people become symptomatic, it isn't like SARs or MERS. I think that the next few months will be very interesting, world wide.