A threat from Bin Laden (possible debate)

[Nancy]

Nancy I work at a bank and I get to see first hand how the Patriot Act effects people's ability to borrower money. Do you know how many people I've had to turn down for a loan in the state of Hawaii? Want to know why? Because typically each home in Hawaii has 2 address - one for the mail and one for the location. Because the two are different I am unable to check to make sure that the client actually lives where they say they do because the title will say Main St. but their driver's license, utility bills, and such will say Elm St. because that is the mailing address. If they are unable to show me at least 2 forms of identification that show the actual property location I can't lend them money. And don't say - well that rarely happens because it happens a WHOLE lot more then you think. And why can't I lend them money - because I can reconcile the conditions in the patriot act and therefore the bank can't legally lend them the money. These are honest to good people and they can't get a loan because of stipulations in the patriot act - sounds fair doesn't it? How would you feel if you were applying for student loans for your kids and was told you were SOL because of paperwork?

~Amanda

Not to detract from what you are saying but why does Hawaii have 2 different addresses? I don't understand how a house can have 2 legal addresses, it's either on the street or it isn't.

 

[CathrynRose]

So you aren't worried because it is not affecting YOU personally, yet. In time it will. This is a slippery-slope trading privacy for security, where does it end? When it affects all Americans? By that time we will have no way to fight back.

See, THAT statement is completly hypocritical of what was said earlier... THE SKY IS FALLING, and the .0000001% chance of being in a terrorist attack, etc.

Is the same train of thought.

 

[kydisneyfans]

Osama has got to be sitting in his cave laughing his behind off at us.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

See, THAT statement is completly hypocritical of what was said earlier... THE SKY IS FALLING, and the .0000001% chance of being in a terrorist attack, etc.

Is the same train of thought.

I didn't make that earlier statement. And I do believe there will be another terrorist attack, it isn't a question of if, it's when. There is NOTHING that will stop it. Like I said, I would rather live in a country with freedoms and take the chance of what will come. There are PLENTY of legal ways to deal with all of this.

Oh and I thought you were done with this thread.

 

[dwbakerjr]

My daughter lives in Jamaica Beach, Texas (west of Galveston). Same thing... the house addresses have ZERO to do with where they receive mail. Dont know if it's related to the proximity of the surf or whut...

just fyi....

 

[CathrynRose]

Oh and I thought you were done with this thread.

I thought so too - but I just found out we're doing Taco Bell for dinner... I dont gotta cook.

And I also believe there may be another attck - but I hope they do all and everything they can to stop it. And I hope they do all and everything they can to not have this occur on US soil.

To say NOTHING can stop it, doesnt give much credit to this country.

 

[dcentity2000]

Several terrorist attacks on London in the last year or so have been foiled with minimal interference with public life. I believe that America can, has and will do the same.



Rich::

 

[Nancy]

My daughter lives in Jamaica Beach, Texas (west of Galveston). Same thing... the house addresses have ZERO to do with where they receive mail. Dont know if it's related to the proximity of the surf or whut...

just fyi....

That is very interesting. I don't understand it, but


I just went and read the provisions on banking in the Patriot Act. They all seem to deal with money laundering, not taking loans. Maybe because of multiple addresses and no way to check on them they feel there is a chance of money laundering? I'm going to research the banking provisions in more detail, because I am very curious about this. I'm also calling my SIL who is an underwriter for an international bank and see what she knows about it, (that's if she has clearance to talk about how they do things)

 

[CheshireVal]

Just came back after being involved in real life for a bit.

See, that's just it, I'm not going to get all in an uproar over "potential"...to me it just isn't something I worry about because I just don't think it's worth my time or energy.

That just sounds a little apathetic to me.

It's not affecting me, necessarily, either (unless you count the miles of paperwork DH -- Australian-- and I are filling out for his permanent residency under the Patriot Act), but if you were Muslim or middle Eastern, it *would* be affecting you, and I think you'd be a lot more upset.

Just because I'm white, middle class, and relatively boring doesn't mean I'm not upset about what is happening to others in this country under the so-called anti-terrorism laws.

 

[Judge Smails]

Unfortunately by the time it's done legally the damage is done.

Besides if the Gov'mnt wants to listen in on me breathing heavy to my hot neighbor then let 'em.

Major misconception being thrown around by Bu$h and his lap dogs. It takes no more time to do it legally than it does to do it illegally.

That being the case it is clear that Bu$h has other intentions regarding wire taps and when that is made public it will cost him dearly.

 

[Mom2be]

That is very interesting. I don't understand it, but


I just went and read the provisions on banking in the Patriot Act. They all seem to deal with money laundering, not taking loans. Maybe because of multiple addresses and no way to check on them they feel there is a chance of money laundering? I'm going to research the banking provisions in more detail, because I am very curious about this. I'm also calling my SIL who is an underwriter for an international bank and see what she knows about it, (that's if she has clearance to talk about how they do things)

I wish I knew why Hawaii has 2 different address. What I know is that there is a legal address - what is on title. And then the address the post office uses. It is actually somewhat common in CA and Oregon as well.

I'm not sure the provisions have so much to do with banking as much as it has to do with identifying the person. We have to check the information you give us against 2 different sources. The first one being the credit bureau - if your DOB, SS#, Living address, and name correctly match what is on your credit report - you are clear. Then if your title correctly matches what is on the application you are clear. When the credit report doesn't match (say you recently moved) then you have to send me a current driver's license (updated with your new address or it doesn't count) and a utility bill for that address. If your SS# doesn't match you have to send me a driver license (still needs to be updated) and a SS card. I've yet to run into a problem with DOB so I'm not sure what steps we would need to take.

So in the state of CA where it takes 6 weeks to receive your new license - you have to add 6 weeks on to your loan turnaround because we won't move forward until it is updated.

~Amanda

 

[Judge Smails]

Dont bother sending me links to Fluff websites.

You can deride all the links you like but the fact remains in the law. The NYT, FOX, WP nor CNN made the law. There is nothing that impedes the government's ability to wire tap first and obtain a warrant second...nothing. Your casting dispersions at the source is akin to whistling past the graveyard.

The powers that you are so willing to cede to this president makes our country less a Republic and more a dictatorship...and that's un-American IMHO.

 

[CathrynRose]

Major misconception being thrown around by Bu$h and his lap dogs. It takes no more time to do it legally than it does to do it illegally.

That being the case it is clear that Bu$h has other intentions regarding wire taps and when that is made public it will cost him dearly.

Do you amuse yourself using a dollar sign in our President's name?

 

[Judge Smails]

Do you amuse yourself using a dollar sign in our President's name?

Yes and others as well.
Now, care to refute my statement or do you want to continue the weak attempts at deflection?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

We live in a free society (or, at least, we used to). In a free society, sometimes bad people are going to use that freedom to do bad things. So be it. If that is the price we must pay to live in a Big Brother-free society, then it's one I'm willing to pay. The people that died on 9/11 died in part because of our freedom in this country. It's a real shame that so many are willing to give away that same freedom out of fear.

We still do live in a free society.

What freedom's are we "giving away" ?? I don't see it.

 

[Judge Smails]

We still do live in a free society.

What freedom's are we "giving away" ?? I don't see it.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Yes and others as well.
Now, care to refute my statement or do you want to continue the weak attempts at deflection?

You've already decided we are Bush's "lapdogs". Do you really want to listen to us??

We are at war. Let's do what it takes and stop the Chicken Little "sky is falling dance" because of some wire taps.

 

[CathrynRose]

That being the case it is clear that Bush has other intentions regarding wire taps and when that is made public it will cost him dearly.

Do tell! WHat are his other intentions!!!!??

 

[Bayshore Bandit]

I don't have a problem with the wiretapping, as long as it is done
legally. I do not think that it is too much to ask for our government
to abide by the laws "it" created.

 

[Mom2be]

We still do live in a free society.

What freedom's are we "giving away" ?? I don't see it.

Have you read the entire thread?