A sad choice for my friend

[NikitaZee]

This is a good point. Have the children been tested? What would happen if this happened to one of the daughter's? Would she adopt another child that could fully function as a daughter? No, because we love our children unconditionally but, for some, the love for their spouse is not unconditional so it seems.

She says she wouldn't stop visiting him but she also said she would never leave him when she took her marriage vows.

I am sure this is a very difficult situation for her. As a friend, I would support her with whatever she decided. Best of luck to all those involved.

Her children weren't tested for this - as I understand from her, it is congenital (he was born with it) but not inherited. Also, my friend started this ordeal with the same conviction that many posters are expressing - that she would never leave his side, and remain his wife no matter what. Now, having lived thru four years of this, she still promises to not abandon him - she just wants to live a full life as a woman with love and companionship. I remember when she found out she was expecting her 4th daughter. She cried because she wanted a son for her husband. Now it seems like a blessing that she had another girl - the baby was not even a year old when this happened, and their little family of all girls has adapted the best way they can and do everything together.

 

[ccgirl]

You honestly can't see that is a completely different point? She can still love this man unconditionally, but more as a child than as her husband. People have more than one child all the time. Does that mean the first is loved any less or is deficient in some way? No, because you can have that relationship with more than one child. It's completely different with a spouse, and this man can no longer be a spouse. The relationship that they now have would not have to be threatened by a new marriage, because it is completely different from a marriage.

No, sorry, I just can't. I realize some people think I may be crazy but I love both my children and my DH unconditionally. I did not have more children because there was something wrong with one of them so I wanted a "normal" one. For some reason, I just can't get past the feeling that she wants to leave her DH so she can have a "normal" life. Sorry, but, again, I said in sickness in health and in good times and bad. There were no 'ifs' and conditions in there. If he were mentally incapacitated he would still be my DH and I just couldn't leave him.

Again, I want to make it clear I am not judging anyone for having opinions different than mine. While I do not agree with the other opinions, I accept them. I just happen to feel otherwise.

 

[DizBelle]

I hope you are not judging the other poster. I think people feel strongly on both sides. I happen to be a believer in keeping the marriage vows at all times. I realize not everyone takes the same marriage vows. A previous poster posted that hers did not include the for better or worse and in sickness and health. Mine did and I took them before God and I take them EXTREMELY seriously. If my DH breaks those vows, it does not give me an out. He is the one that has to go before God to explain why he broke the vows. That said, if someone decided to not keep their marriage vows I do not judge them. In fact, I have many friends and family members that chose not to keep theirs. That is their choice.

I just cannot fathom staying in a violent and abusive relationship, endangering myself and my children just because I said I would no matter what.

 

[Agri]

This is a good point. Have the children been tested? What would happen if this happened to one of the daughter's? Would she adopt another child that could fully function as a daughter? No, because we love our children unconditionally but, for some, the love for their spouse is not unconditional so it seems.

Why should it be? The relationship between parent and child is different between that of husband and wife. The truth is that a husband (or wife) is *chosen* and fits a certain place in someone's life. Just because its not his fault that he is no longer capable of fulfilling that role in her life doesn't mean she should have to go without someone there for the rest of her life.

She's in her mid-thirties, the current life expectancy for a female in the U.S. is 80 years old! How many people would be alone for almost 50 years because their spouse is now in a home, unable to live day to day without significant assistance, doesn't remember their relationship to you, doesn't miss you when you are gone, AND doesn't look forward to your visits?

It's so easy to make statements when you haven't dealt with a close loved one turning into a completely different person before your eyes and having to care for them.e

 

[NikitaZee]

I find it really ironic that HE would be unaware that things have changed yet so many people think that the ones who ARE aware and are grieving for it are supposed to live half a life in order to spare his feelings.

I think this is an interesting observation, and a very good point.

 

[MickeyCrazedMom]

No, because we love our children unconditionally but, for some, the love for their spouse is not unconditional so it seems.

Most people do not love their spouse unconditionally. If someone is abused by their spouse, cheated on, or if their spouse hurt their child, they are likely to leave. Therefore, there are "conditions" to that love. IMO most people have some conditions on their marital love. (This is not meant as a response to the op just to the idea of unconditional marital love).

 

[Freyja]

This is a good point. Have the children been tested? What would happen if this happened to one of the daughter's? Would she adopt another child that could fully function as a daughter? No, because we love our children unconditionally but, for some, the love for their spouse is not unconditional so it seems.

She says she wouldn't stop visiting him but she also said she would never leave him when she took her marriage vows.

I am sure this is a very difficult situation for her. As a friend, I would support her with whatever she decided. Best of luck to all those involved.

You´re right. My love for my DH is not unconditional.
If we would change dramatically, be violent and abusive, I do not for one second believe I would love him as much. If he were a child molester I don´t think I´d be capable of loving him at all.

 

[Scurvy]

My guess is that your vows were not "in sickness and in health, for better or worse unless you break them first and then all bets are off."

Your logic doesn't fly.

I think that this is a great example of how people can view their vows differently. It sounds as though you see the wedding vows as something that bonds each person to the other, so that the wife's vows bond her to her husband and the husband's vows bond him to his wife. The wife might break her vow, but that doesn't change the fact that the husband is bonded to her through his vow. Some people see the vows together as the thing that form the bond. Instead of two things that individually bond them together, it's two things that meet in the middle to form one bond. In that case, if the vows are broken on either side, the bond is broken. I'm not saying either view is right - I think that's a very personal thing and there's no right view - but it could explain why you can't understand the other poster's logic, since you could be looking at it from two very different viewpoints.

 

[palavra]

My grandmother made this choice. My grandfather was injured in a drunk driving accident. He wasn't drunk; the guy in the other car was. The extent of head injury eventually caused him to be put in a nursing home. My grandmother was left alone with 4 kids to raise. She vowed she would not divorce my grandfather because she did believe in "till death do us part." He died when she was in her early 50's. She did go on to marry again, and had a wonderful life with her second husband after my grandfather's death.

I would not pretend to know what decision I would make unless I was in the situation. I do believe that, knowing my husband as I do, that he would want me to move on if there were no hope of change.

 

[Feralpeg]

Personally, I don't think anyone here can know what life is like for this woman until you've lived it. It is all well and good to say what you would do, but you will never really know unless put in the situation. Our best intentions don't always hold true when put under adverse conditions.

I would never judge her. My heart goes out to her, her husband and entire family. A very sad situation. I hope they can find the best solution for all involved.

 

[crusoe2]

I think this is an interesting observation, and a very good point.

And, to me, this is THE key point.

I will admit that it is painful to think of being the incapacitated one and my DH going on with life with someone else. The thought of being looked upon as pitifully mentally impaired and being a burden to my family isn't pleasant. Nor is the thought of someone taking my place in my family. But as long as my DH continued to give me the best care he could, I think that is all I could ask or should expect of him in such a situation.

Something else to think about - and it's also a very important point - is what her husband would want for her and their children. If he had known this was going to happen to him, what would he have wanted her to do?

While it's painful and humiliating to think of being the one who is mentally impaired to that point, it's also painful to think of my DH trying to forge ahead on his own - trying to be both mom and dad to our kids, not having a helpmate and confidante to come to for help, advice, solace, and all the million and one other things we get from a SO. And it's even more painful to think of my kids - especially my 8yo DD - spending the rest of their lives without a mom. A little girl being raised by a dad and a much-older brother isn't the end of the world and, in our case, there would be plenty of love. But I wouldn't want my condition to deprive my daughter of someone to guide her through all the "girl things" in life. And if it were my husband who became incapacitated, I don't think he would want either of our kids to live the rest of their lives without the benefit of having a dad and all the things that encompasses.

 

[Ember]

For all the people saying they would stand behind their marriage vows no matter what, do you expect it to work both ways? Would you honestly condemn the person you claim to love unconditionally to 50 years without a life partner? Would you want them to be lonely, sad, and hurting for all that time? Would you want them to live without all the joys, comforts, and happiness a spouse brings? Sometimes it's easy to be the martyr, but I think it's harder to force someone else into the role.

Maybe my version of "unconditional love" is just different. I want my husband to be happy. I want him to experience all the joys of life. My point is that even if I was aware on some level that my husband had moved on, I would still want that for him. I love him that much. And as I said, I'd want him to do it without reservation or guilt.

 

[Feralpeg]

And, to me, this is THE key point.

I will admit that it is painful to think of being the incapacitated one and my DH going on with life with someone else. The thought of being looked upon as pitifully mentally impaired and being a burden to my family isn't pleasant. Nor is the thought of someone taking my place in my family. But as long as my DH continued to give me the best care he could, I think that is all I could ask or should expect of him in such a situation.

Something else to think about - and it's also a very important point - is what her husband would want for her and their children. If he had known this was going to happen to him, what would he have wanted her to do?

While it's painful and humiliating to think of being the one who is mentally impaired to that point, it's also painful to think of my DH trying to forge ahead on his own - trying to be both mom and dad to our kids, not having a helpmate and confidante to come to for help, advice, solace, and all the million and one other things we get from a SO. And it's even more painful to think of my kids - especially my 8yo DD - spending the rest of their lives without a mom. A little girl being raised by a dad and a much-older brother isn't the end of the world and, in our case, there would be plenty of love. But I wouldn't want my condition to deprive my daughter of someone to guide her through all the "girl things" in life. And if it were my husband who became incapacitated, I don't think he would want either of our kids to live the rest of their lives without the benefit of having a dad and all the things that encompasses.

Well said. I agree completely.

 

[kellyg403]

Well said. I agree completely.

Me too!

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Let me preface this by saying that I do take my marriage vows very seriously. I do not believe in divorce except under very dire circumstances (such as abuse). At this point in time, if my husband were to have an affair, or break his back and become a quad, or any number of other things, I would remain married to him. That being said...

For all of the posters that are saying that they would stay married no matter what, even if he broke his vows, would you stay married under the following circumstances:

-A partner who has become either physically or emotionally abusive or both?
-A partner who leaves you after taking up with another person. I'm not talking about just an affair, I'm talking about somebody who completely ups and leaves the marriage.
-A partner who files for divorce against your wishes?
-A partner who has become engaged in criminal activity that puts you and your family in danger? Or is locked up for a long time, even life for criminal activity?

Are spouses in these situations supposed to remain true to their vows even though they are being condemned to either a life of physical danger or of lack of companionship through no fault of their own?

I'm honestly very curious because so many people here are saying there is never any reason to break a marriage vow.

In this case, I do not see her as breaking her marriage vow. For one, if she were to try to engage in any kind of marital relations with this man, we would cry foul as he is not able to understand it. Plus, she has repeatedly said that she is not just going to abandon him. The way I look at it, she is keeping her vow. She will continue to take care of him. In fact, to me this is the healthier option. Do you really think that she can go through four years of this and not start to feel at least a little resentful towards her husband over all that she has lost? Over the years, there is a good chance that resentment will grow. In this way, she will be able to take on a new role in his life, but one that is no less significant to him than the one that she has now.

As the OP stated, she had tried to bring him home and was told no. She doesn't even have the option of caring for him as she would like to. This does not sound to me like somebody who would callously dump somebody in a home. I used to work in a residential facility for people with disabilities just like this. I saw many people who never had family visit. Her being married or divorced is not likely to matter one way or another. It will simply mean that her legal status will reflect what her emotional/relationship status has already become.

Finally, I can't believe anybody would remotely compare this to Rep. Giffords. Right now we have no idea what her future will hold. This woman has been doing this for four years and at this point knows that her husband can never come home despite her trying, and the he will never recover beyond where he is now. Rep. Giffords is still in the recovery phase (and doing well by all accounts.) It has not even been a week and nobody can know what the future will hold. To even try to compare the two is in my opinion reprehensible. Trying to use an emotionally charged national tragedy to make a point on an internet discussion just feels wrong.

 

[Owlpost23]

This poor woman really isn't IN a marriage right now! She's bound by a license that says that she and her husband are married,but tell me where the marriage is?It's all one-sided-he has NO idea about what marriage entails.It's hardly fair to say that his wife would be breaking vows that aren't really being kept to begin with.What a crummy situation.It takes two people to make a marriage.

 

[ccgirl]

IDK...maybe it's because marriage is more than a license to me. Maybe it's because I waited until I was older to get married and lived and supported myself for many years. I do not look at a life of taking care of my disabled spouse as a life of condemnation. People say....what if your DH was abusive, adulterous, etc. While I may leave to seek safey, I would never file for divorce nor would I engage in sexual relations with another man. That is me, personally. I realize not everyone feels this way but this is the way I feel. The only way to end my marriage vows is by death. If my DH should die, God forbid, I would then be free to pursue another man. Other than that, my vows hold true whether or not we are living under the same roof. Should my DH leave me, well then he was the one that left me and filed for divorce. However, a piece of paper saying I am divorced would mean nothing to me. I don't mean it would mean nothing in that I would pursue him relentlessly or anything like that. Of course, he would have a new life but, again, the only thing that would absolve my marriage vows is death. I made those vows before God and a piece of paper does not nullify that. That is just how I feel. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions.

 

[snowywhite89]

I think that this is a great example of how people can view their vows differently. It sounds as though you see the wedding vows as something that bonds each person to the other, so that the wife's vows bond her to her husband and the husband's vows bond him to his wife. The wife might break her vow, but that doesn't change the fact that the husband is bonded to her through his vow. Some people see the vows together as the thing that form the bond. Instead of two things that individually bond them together, it's two things that meet in the middle to form one bond. In that case, if the vows are broken on either side, the bond is broken. I'm not saying either view is right - I think that's a very personal thing and there's no right view - but it could explain why you can't understand the other poster's logic, since you could be looking at it from two very different viewpoints.

This is how DH and I see our vows.

 

[cheshireqt]

I have been reading the debate with interest and find a lot of great points on both sides. While I love my DH very much, I cannot imagine the toll this has taken on her and I don't know if anyone could really say what they would do in the situation until living through it. Your friend needs a friend. She is lucky to have you!

 

[wvjules]

IDK...maybe it's because marriage is more than a license to me. Maybe it's because I waited until I was older to get married and lived and supported myself for many years. I do not look at a life of taking care of my disabled spouse as a life of condemnation. People say....what if your DH was abusive, adulterous, etc. While I may leave to seek safey, I would never file for divorce nor would I engage in sexual relations with another man. That is me, personally. I realize not everyone feels this way but this is the way I feel. The only way to end my marriage vows is by death. If my DH should die, God forbid, I would then be free to pursue another man. Other than that, my vows hold true whether or not we are living under the same roof. Should my DH leave me, well then he was the one that left me and filed for divorce. However, a piece of paper saying I am divorced would mean nothing to me. I don't mean it would mean nothing in that I would pursue him relentlessly or anything like that. Of course, he would have a new life but, again, the only thing that would absolve my marriage vows is death. I made those vows before God and a piece of paper does not nullify that. That is just how I feel. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions.

Seriously? Your DH could repeatedly beat the crap out of you and you wouldn't divorce him!?!?!?