A sad choice for my friend

[snowywhite89]

The way I see it, he's STILL the man she married, but with brain damage. She didn't say he was in a vegetative state. He's alert, awake, recognizes her and the children etc, but in a different way. People get dementia or Alzheimers and many wives stick with their husbands because they're still their husbands, no matter what, and in those cases many of the husbands don't even recognize their wives anymore. I'm sure those women would love to have a "normal" companion to spend the rest of their lives with, but they accept what has happened and they stick with their man, even if he can't act like a man anymore.

ITA


I would miss the intimacy, romance, laughing and the like with my DH not with any man. I would also hope the medical improvements in the future could fix his brain and he could come back.

I am wondering what all the 'in sickness in health" people would do in the case of a spouse with sex addiction? someone who has affair after affair and all the things that come with that...putting your own health at risk? She is a young women who will never know her husband in the intimate way again,never have that close friend again and live a very lonely life at night without her spouse she loves.I dont think you can pick and choose the "sickness" so would you let your kids live with that kind of life watching a sex addict or drug addict?
She has to do this for HER not her kids,they will turn into adults and have their own spouse but she will be alone.I cant believe all the judgement.NO ONE knows how they will handle it until it happens to you...even IF you THINK what you will do.what if your spouse has a mental problem and turns violent and it puts you or your kids in danger?saying you will leave them will make you a hypocrite for saying to this person to stick it out.This man is not handicapped he is nor ever will be the same man or husband.My heart breaks for her,but if it were my husband I would want him to move on...and if he remarried I would welcome a good women to step in and be some kind of parent or even mom to my child! That is the most unselfish choice...I would hate to know my dd would never have the support or love of a women that wanted to be a mom.

If he has an affair or affairs then he broke the "forsaking all others" vow so HE broke our marriage vows.

I would not walk out just because of this be we would not be intimate, for health reasons, until he got a clear medical check and after we had been in counseling. If he did not want to stay I can't make him.

If he does not want to stop stepping out or work on our marriage then our marriage is over and HE was the one who broke our vows as I have forsaken all others.

Alcoholism or drug addiction are the same as above. If he won't give it up and get treatment then he has chosen to force my hand.

In all the above examples the DH could choose to change. The OP's friend's DH cannot choose to change, so the "in sickness" covers him but not the others.

 

[kellyg403]

OP, your friend has a very hard decision. Sometimes the hardest decisions a person makes are the right ones for them. I, personally, don't know what I would do. I would think in the beginning it would be for life, but I can see where the loneliness and everything would be consuming and overwhelming. I would never want another person or myself to feel that way.

My friend's husband's first wife had a blood clot from taking birth control pills when they were in their early 30's. He was left to care for his 2 young children at the ages of 3/4 along with having a military career. Around the ten year mark he met my friend and for several years they lived together before he actually divorced and married her. The ex-wife is awake and cared for. When she sees her children, now grown with children of their own, thinks her grandchildren are her children. She still believes that she is married to their dad, no one has told her differently and their dad still visits mom to check on her. He provides money for the care she is receiving as well as things she needs. He has not abandoned her. There will never be an emotional attachment or marital life for them ever again, but he does deserve to be happy. Her family does not speak to him because of his decision and sometimes makes it hard for him to do what he feels is the right thing. They take him off the visitors list, they call the grown children and tell them he is at fault for her condition. Its really uncalled for. The woman thinks they are married and no one has told her they aren't. She is not mentally able to understand any of it. As long as he visits she is happy to see him and he is happy to do it. So, I think in the end it should be everyone is happy, however it works for your family. These kids are happy their dad met and married their friend. They often say they are glad because it was really hard for them when they were younger. They would just tell people they didn't have a mom. My friend came in and fed them and helped them when they were sick, she babysits and loves her grandbabies. For this family doing it this way was the right way.

Kelly

 

[ReneeA]

As difficult as it would be, I think I'd file for divorce. I'd still visit and care for my DH, but couldn't fathom never having intimacy again (not sex...just the everyday closeness that we enjoy now).

I also would be terrified of allowing young children to be witness to, or exposed to violent outbursts.

 

[Freyja]

OP, your friend has a very hard decision. Sometimes the hardest decisions a person makes are the right ones for them. I, personally, don't know what I would do. I would think in the beginning it would be for life, but I can see where the loneliness and everything would be consuming and overwhelming. I would never want another person or myself to feel that way.

My friend's husband's first wife had a blood clot from taking birth control pills when they were in their early 30's. He was left to care for his 2 young children at the ages of 3/4 along with having a military career. Around the ten year mark he met my friend and for several years they lived together before he actually divorced and married her. The ex-wife is awake and cared for. When she sees her children, now grown with children of their own, thinks her grandchildren are her children. She still believes that she is married to their dad, no one has told her differently and their dad still visits mom to check on her. He provides money for the care she is receiving as well as things she needs. He has not abandoned her. There will never be an emotional attachment or marital life for them ever again, but he does deserve to be happy. Her family does not speak to him because of his decision and sometimes makes it hard for him to do what he feels is the right thing. They take him off the visitors list, they call the grown children and tell them he is at fault for her condition. Its really uncalled for. The woman thinks they are married and no one has told her they aren't. She is not mentally able to understand any of it. As long as he visits she is happy to see him and he is happy to do it. So, I think in the end it should be everyone is happy, however it works for your family. These kids are happy their dad met and married their friend. They often say they are glad because it was really hard for them when they were younger. They would just tell people they didn't have a mom. My friend came in and fed them and helped them when they were sick, she babysits and loves her grandbabies. For this family doing it this way was the right way.

Kelly

Your friend´s husband seems to be a wonderful man. So sad to hear that he has to deal with his first wife´s anger.

 

[Agri]

The way I see it, he's STILL the man she married, but with brain damage. She didn't say he was in a vegetative state. He's alert, awake, recognizes her and the children etc, but in a different way. People get dementia or Alzheimers and many wives stick with their husbands because they're still their husbands, no matter what, and in those cases many of the husbands don't even recognize their wives anymore. I'm sure those women would love to have a "normal" companion to spend the rest of their lives with, but they accept what has happened and they stick with their man, even if he can't act like a man anymore.

Dementia and Alzhiemer's most often occur towards the end of one's life. Not in their 30s. And both are usually the signal of the END of life - they are both considered TERMINAL illnesses. We kept my grandmother at home when she had Alzhiemer's until she died. We knew it would not be a lifetime affair - she was going to die one day - and she did, likely because her brain forgot how to breathe. That was a five year commitment. Not a lifetime commitment at such a young age.

You're comparing a terminal illness to a permanent condition. Apples to oranges.

If she still visits him, how is she not sticking by him? Divorce doesn't mean she can't still support him in exactly the same fashion she is now. He's in a home because the doctors will not release him to her care, so its not like by leaving him she would be throwing him to the wolves. Her only role in his life is visitor - yes, he recognizes her, but he has to be *reminded* that she is his wife. Why would she stop visiting him just because she divorces him?

 

[tink1969]

How horrible to leave your husband or wife like that!!

Sorry but your SO did not ask for the injury. What if he was paralized and could not perform in the bedroom? So she should divorce him in that case?

Sorry but you stick it out.

Harsh! So for the next 50 years she is supposed just accept being alone?

I hardly think she would abandon her children's father. Her husband is forever going to have the mental functions of a teen. So would it be better just to have an affair? She should divorce him so she can again feel the love and compassion she deserves. I'm absolutely positive that she would maintain a relationship with her children's father.

 

[U2_rocks!]

If he has the mentality of a pre-teen, then he's no longer an adult in substance, and to me that would be enough to consider breaking wedding vows. You can't marry a pre-teen, and if that's what he's essentially become and will be for the rest of his life, then I don't see how he can remain party to the contract of marriage. Legally he can, because the law only recognizes his actual age in this matter. But in spirit he cannot - he doesn't even understand what it means to be a husband! To me this goes beyond "sickness". It would be very difficult, but I think I would have to take legal steps to end the marriage, and be open to another marriage in the future. I would never abandon him, though, as a friend and loved one.

 

[DizBelle]

The reason no one else supports is besides her 17 year old is it goes against the very thing we promise when we get married. Those vows are supposed to mean something and I am always so sad when they don't.

I feel for her and it's a difficult choice but she runs the risk of alienating everyone else she knows, that could be a cold dark place.

If you think about it a little larger, all the men and women that come back from Iraq or Afghanistan wounded, some never to be the same again,. should those spouses abandon them too?

think about who she might date. obvious question is what happened with your first marriage. Tell him the truth? He should run away and because she is saying, if it gets tough I am out of here.

This is one of those times when you have to say there but for the grace of God go I. No judgement I can't walk in her shows but from here I sit it's wrong.

I am so sorry for your friend and I wish her peace with what ever she decides!

Lisa

Can you please point out where the OP said the woman was abandoning her husband? I never read such a thing.

 

[tink1969]

dementia and alzhiemer's most often occur towards the end of one's life. Not in their 30s. And both are usually the signal of the end of life - they are both considered terminal illnesses. We kept my grandmother at home when she had alzhiemer's until she died. We knew it would not be a lifetime affair - she was going to die one day - and she did, likely because her brain forgot how to breathe. That was a five year commitment. Not a lifetime commitment at such a young age.

You're comparing a terminal illness to a permanent condition. Apples to oranges.

If she still visits him, how is she not sticking by him? Divorce doesn't mean she can't still support him in exactly the same fashion she is now. He's in a home because the doctors will not release him to her care, so its not like by leaving him she would be throwing him to the wolves. Her only role in his life is visitor - yes, he recognizes her, but he has to be *reminded* that she is his wife. Why would she stop visiting him just because she divorces him?

ita -

 

[DizBelle]

ITA


I would miss the intimacy, romance, laughing and the like with my DH not with any man. I would also hope the medical improvements in the future could fix his brain and he could come back.





If he has an affair or affairs then he broke the "forsaking all others" vow so HE broke our marriage vows.

I would not walk out just because of this be we would not be intimate, for health reasons, until he got a clear medical check and after we had been in counseling. If he did not want to stay I can't make him.

If he does not want to stop stepping out or work on our marriage then our marriage is over and HE was the one who broke our vows as I have forsaken all others.

Alcoholism or drug addiction are the same as above. If he won't give it up and get treatment then he has chosen to force my hand.

In all the above examples the DH could choose to change. The OP's friend's DH cannot choose to change, so the "in sickness" covers him but not the others.

My guess is that your vows were not "in sickness and in health, for better or worse unless you break them first and then all bets are off."

Your logic doesn't fly.

 

[kellyg403]

Dementia and Alzhiemer's most often occur towards the end of one's life. Not in their 30s. And both are usually the signal of the END of life - they are both considered TERMINAL illnesses. We kept my grandmother at home when she had Alzhiemer's until she died. We knew it would not be a lifetime affair - she was going to die one day - and she did, likely because her brain forgot how to breathe. That was a five year commitment. Not a lifetime commitment at such a young age.

You're comparing a terminal illness to a permanent condition. Apples to oranges.

If she still visits him, how is she not sticking by him? Divorce doesn't mean she can't still support him in exactly the same fashion she is now. He's in a home because the doctors will not release him to her care, so its not like by leaving him she would be throwing him to the wolves. Her only role in his life is visitor - yes, he recognizes her, but he has to be *reminded* that she is his wife. Why would she stop visiting him just because she divorces him?

And quite possibly, she does value marriage vows which is why she can't imagine herself having a marital relationship/lover/partner while she is STILL married. While I do think the new partner will have a lot to accept, I would think they would see what values this person has by still being in the ex spouses life and being there when needed as a friend or family member. That is actually a really great quality in my mind. I don't think I would ever consider it abandonment if the wife were to divorce..but that is just me and personal experience in a friend.


Kelly

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

OP - I feel for your friend. What a horrible situation.

This is one of those things that you pray you never have to deal with personally. After reading this thread yesterday I brought up the topic with DH. As a soldier, he has seen friends come back from war with head injuries that have left them permanently mentally impaired so this is a very scary possibility in his line of work.

On one hand, if you don't have the mental capacity of an adult then you aren't really the "same person" that took the vows to be married to your spouse so DH said that really gives the spouse an "out" if they don't want to stay married so they can get on with their lives. On the other hand, the marriage vows specifically state "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health", and I would hate to think that my spouse would abandon me if my "sickness" was at a certain level of severity. I told DH I would never abandon him. I married a soldier knowing the risks (not liking them but knowing them) and that included the chance that he could be permanently disabled in war either mentally or physically.

The only "out" I see in a situation like the OP described is from the violent outbursts. I could never expose my children to that and would have to protect my children first.

My father faced a horribly tragic situation in his much younger days. His first wife contracted TB and at the time (1945-ish) there was no cure or treatment so patients were quarantined in a sanitarium for life. He was very young (19) and fresh out of the Navy from WWII when this happened. What was he to do? He faced a lifetime of being alone because his wife was sick - at the time Doctors told him there was no cure and the outlook was bleak. Sadly, the situation turned worse when the facility burned to the ground with all of the patients inside so my father ultimately didn't have to make the decision to divorce his wife or not just because she was sick.

 

[kellyg403]

OP - I feel for your friend. What a horrible situation.

My father faced a horribly tragic situation in his much younger days. His first wife contracted TB and at the time (1945-ish) there was no cure or treatment so patients were quarantined in a sanitarium for life. He was very young (19) and fresh out of the Navy from WWII when this happened. What was he to do? He faced a lifetime of being alone because his wife was sick - at the time Doctors told him there was no cure and the outlook was bleak. Sadly, the situation turned worse when the facility burned to the ground with all of the patients inside so my father ultimately didn't have to make the decision to divorce his wife or not just because she was sick.

That is so terribly sad...That would be awful.

Kelly

 

[Hannathy]

OK if so many think she should leave does that mean you feel the same way about the Congresswoman that was just shot? They are showing her husband sitting by her bed holding her hand. There is a very good chance she will not be the same woman she was before the shooting and it can vary from just a bit to worse than the man we are speaking about in this thread.

So when does it become OK for him to leave? Should he go now? or what year is the magic year? Is it when he gets tired of visiting?


I'm still shocked that the man in this thread is in a home with all he can do for himself, I'm surprised it is being paid for. I also feel it is sad because he does know them and does recognize them. Also for all who say she will still visit him, maybe she will or maybe she won't but I would be willing to bet a very large sum of money it won't be as frequently and will get less and less very rapidly when she gets a boyfriend. Go to any nursing home and see how often people who have been there a long time have visitors. People get busy and it is easy to put off.

 

[DizBelle]

OK if so many think she should leave does that mean you feel the same way about the Congresswoman that was just shot? They are showing her husband sitting by her bed holding her hand. There is a very good chance she will not be the same woman she was before the shooting and it can vary from just a bit to worse than the man we are speaking about in this thread.

So when does it become OK for him to leave? Should he go now? or what year is the magic year? Is it when he gets tired of visiting?


I'm still shocked that the man in this thread is in a home with all he can do for himself, I'm surprised it is being paid for. I also feel it is sad because he does know them and does recognize them. Also for all who say she will still visit him, maybe she will or maybe she won't but I would be willing to bet a very large sum of money it won't be as frequently and will get less and less very rapidly when she gets a boyfriend. Go to any nursing home and see how often people who have been there a long time have visitors. People get busy and it is easy to put off.

In this situation, divorce DOES NOT EQUAL abandonment. There are so many PP that just don't seem to get that.

I seriously doubt that she will walk out the door and never have anything to do with him again.

 

[Hannathy]

I seriously doubt that she will walk out the door and never have anything to do with him again.

I'm glad you are so confident, I'm not. I may be a bit older than you and having worked in Nursing Homes and a residential school when I was younger I have witnessed too many cases of frequent visits the first year or two getting less and less often as the years go by until it is holidays and that's about it. Think about resolutions-how many of those get kept for more than a few month's?

 

[DizBelle]

I'm glad you are so confident, I'm not. I may be a bit older than you and having worked in Nursing Homes and a residential school when I was younger I have witnessed too many cases of frequent visits the first year or two getting less and less often as the years go by until it is holidays and that's about it. Think about resolutions-how many of those get kept for more than a few month's?

If she's going to abandon him, she's going to do it whether she is still married to him or not. So, this visiting/not visiting issue is immaterial to the question of whether or not to stay married to him.

 

[Freyja]

OK if so many think she should leave does that mean you feel the same way about the Congresswoman that was just shot? They are showing her husband sitting by her bed holding her hand. There is a very good chance she will not be the same woman she was before the shooting and it can vary from just a bit to worse than the man we are speaking about in this thread.

So when does it become OK for him to leave? Should he go now? or what year is the magic year? Is it when he gets tired of visiting?


I'm still shocked that the man in this thread is in a home with all he can do for himself, I'm surprised it is being paid for. I also feel it is sad because he does know them and does recognize them. Also for all who say she will still visit him, maybe she will or maybe she won't but I would be willing to bet a very large sum of money it won't be as frequently and will get less and less very rapidly when she gets a boyfriend. Go to any nursing home and see how often people who have been there a long time have visitors. People get busy and it is easy to put off.

In my opinion it becomes OK when he feels he can´t do this anymore. I would NEVER want my DH to feel he was forced to be with me. If Giffords turnes out to be severely mentally handicapped after this horrible ordeal I would TOTALLY understand her husband for leaving. Not saying it´s an easy thing. Just saying that I don´t feel more lives need to wasted than absolutely necessary.

 

[rie'smom]

I'm glad you are so confident, I'm not. I may be a bit older than you and having worked in Nursing Homes and a residential school when I was younger I have witnessed too many cases of frequent visits the first year or two getting less and less often as the years go by until it is holidays and that's about it. Think about resolutions-how many of those get kept for more than a few month's?

Boy howdy is this true! I worked in a nursing home as part of my nurses training. My heart broke for so many residents who had no one visiting them. I knew many of their families as we live in a small town and couldn't believe the way they abandoned their "loved ones".

In my opinion it becomes OK when he feels he can´t do this anymore. I would NEVER want my DH to feel he was forced to be with me. If Giffords turnes out to be severely mentally handicapped after this horrible ordeal I would TOTALLY understand her husband for leaving. Not saying it´s an easy thing. Just saying that I don´t feel more lives need to wasted than absolutely necessary.

My husband and I discussed this last night as a result of this thread. We both agreed that we would not feel forced but would stay with each other out of love.

 

[snowywhite89]

My guess is that your vows were not "in sickness and in health, for better or worse unless you break them first and then all bets are off."

Your logic doesn't fly.

Just because you want a way out from the start does not mean we all do.