A sad choice for my friend

[Agri]

Let me preface this by saying my experience with marriage vows made before God meant that my mother stayed with my physically and verbally abusive father until he left *her* for greener pastures.

Therefore, my view of the marriage vows is that everything is *within reason*. Sure I would stick by my husband if he were still able to fit that role - someone I could talk to and share my life with. If he is so far gone that he needs 24/7 care in a nursing home and does not understand that I am his wife and we can still share in our lives together, I would, after a time most likely divorce him. I would not stop visiting him, but I would find someone else to fill that void in my life. I deserve to have someone to share my life with in the way that only a SO can. Friends can help, but they do not replace a SO.

The OP's friend is no longer a wife, she is a visitor to a friend in a nursing home. This man might be the physical person she married, but his mind and personality are no longer there. She cannot even take him home for goodness sake! I liken it to my grandmother who died of alzhiemer's - none of us cried for her when she finally passed because we had truly lost her a year earlier. When she passed, she had not spoken a word in over a year and had not left her bed in six months. She had long ceased knowing who any of us were. She had left us, but her body was still going.

Unless the OP's friend is spending hours at his bedside, divorcing him and getting a new love interest is not going to change things for her then-ex-husband. Again, you're talking about a man who doesn't *get* that she's his wife and does not miss her (or his children) when they are gone.

I would feel totally different if they had some sort of relationship, but it seems like now his wife is just a visitor in his life. He doesn't know that he should love and cherish her.

OP, would he even really know if she stopped visiting? I'm curious to know if he reacts positively to seeing her, or if she's just like any other visitor.

For better or worse, for sickness and in health - but within *reason*.

 

[NikitaZee]

@Agri - I don't know how he would react if she were to stop visiting (which she has told me she would never do). When she and their daughters visit, he always recognizes them. She has told me that his reaction is like a happy surprise - like 'oh, hi guys!', like friends visiting him.

 

[EMom]

This reminds me of something a friend told me once, only it's worse because it's someone's husband/father instead of being a brother. My friend and her brother were always super close....devoted to each other and best friends. Once he hit his 20s, he began to change and act strangely and before long was diagnosed as schizophrenic. From things she's told me, he is severely schizophrenic and usually won't take his meds, so he just gets worse and worse. She said watching his descent into the disease was like watching him die and that really, her brother is dead now. She said his body is still here, but whatever made him "him" disappeared years ago and someone else she does not know now inhabits his body. Someone else said something along these lines, but basically it was as if her brother had died and yet they could never have a funeral and mourn his loss properly, even though they knew he was gone forever. It was heartbreaking to hear.

The OP's friend's husband is not a husband anymore. He never will be. He is a child. He can never be a father to his children. Soon, even the youngest will outpace him. His body is there, but whatever made him "him" is gone forever. Yes, he likes it when they visit him, but when they leave, he's unperturbed. No biggie. He may live 40 or more years. The wife and children visit him because that's all they can do. The doctors won't allow him to go home, he's so bad off.

I'm a big believer in wedding vows, but if I was in that state, I'd want my DH to get on with his life and find some joy. God willing, he'd meet a good woman who would mother my DD, because heaven knows she'd need love, affection and the guidance of a woman and not just occasional visits with someone who felt no connection to her. She needs to MATTER. I wouldn't want to torture my DH by denying him companionship for the rest of his days while he's tied to a child (who doesn't really know or care about him) in a woman's body.

The OP's friend must do what she can live with. But if I was her friend, I wouldn't make her feel guilty. I'd thank God I wasn't in her shoes and feel compassion for the whole family. Maybe she'll meet a man who will love her and maybe she won't. I can say that it wouldn't be horrible if those children had the love and nurturing a stepfather could provide, because they will never feel it again from their father, albeit through no fault of his own.

 

[Agri]

@Agri - I don't know how he would react if she were to stop visiting (which she has told me she would never do). When she and their daughters visit, he always recognizes them. She has told me that his reaction is like a happy surprise - like 'oh, hi guys!', like friends visiting him.

I wouldn't expect her to stop visiting, either.

Different relationship, but we didn't stop visiting my grandad when he was in a home until our visits began to stress him out and he didn't even recognize us (series of strokes, which his doctor diagnosed as Alzhiemer's ). So I don't see why she would stop visiting him just because she would get a new boyfriend. She's not currently in a husband/wife relationship with him, so the new person would not be taking the place in her life of her husband. I don't think anyone worth dating would feel jealous of him, either and not want her to visit him, as a PP said.

I'm also curious - does she show up on a schedule? Does he ever expect her? If I was just another visitor, that would help cement my decision to divorce him.

I really don't feel that in this case she would be leaving her husband as that's not her relationship with him anymore. It's legally her relationship with him, but its not actually her relationship with him.

 

[NikitaZee]

No, he doesn't expect her - his short term memory is very poor; only an hour or so, even if she said 'see you on Tuesday' he would never remember.

 

[shortbun]

I think she needs more support than she is getting. The saying - walk a mile in my shoes comes to mind. You are a good friend.

Me too!
There is no reason she couldn't go on visiting her now husband but begin a relationship with someone else. Like any good divorced parent, she might consider not introducing her children to anyone she dates until the relationship becomes monogamous and headed somewhere. There is no reason his side of the family should participate in this personal decision if she and her daughters continue to support their father/her ex. It's not like she's turning off life support now is it? He's their dad, the man she loved and they will always be connected. I'm sure she will honor that both for her children and out of respect for him.

 

[JessicaR]

Me too!
There is no reason she couldn't go on visiting her now husband but begin a relationship with someone else. Like any good divorced parent, she might consider not introducing her children to anyone she dates until the relationship becomes monogamous and headed somewhere. There is no reason his side of the family should participate in this personal decision if she and her daughters continue to support their father/her ex. It's not like she's turning off life support now is it? He's their dad, the man she loved and they will always be connected. I'm sure she will honor that both for her children and out of respect for him.

This is the part that for some reason after reading posts I think isnt being absorbed.

If I were in this situation and I decided to have another relationship that does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that I would drop my husband. I would take care of him, and see him, and nuture him, forever.

 

[crusoe2]

Just because she wants to change the legal status of their relationship, it doesn't necessarily follow that she is going to abandon him. If she has stuck by him for this long and still cares so much, it sure doesn't sound like she's going to stop having a relationship with him altogether. From what you've described, OP, it sounds like as long as she and the kids continue to visit that her husband will never even realize that anything has changed. If he would be perfectly happy with that relationship (and it sounds as if he is) why should she be deprived of having a real partner in life? For that matter, what about the kids and the fact that they don't really have a dad anymore? I'm sure they still love him but he can never again be there for all those dad-things - tossing a ball in the backyard, teaching them to ride a bike, giving advice, or walking his daughters down the aisle when they get married. Sure a lot of kids grow up just fine without that but, in this case, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I think it would be a shame for your friend and her kids to be deprived of a chance at a more normal life just to avoid offending other people.

 

[sparklynails23]

You said it was a congenital condition. Are her daughters ok? Would she accept one of their husbands divorcing them if something similar happened to one of them? What an awful prospect. I would have no judgement of her actions.

 

[MoniqueU]

I understand the fact that heo is no longer a true "husband" or "father" and that he is gone. I also struggle with friends and family moving on after a dath or divorce. I have one Uncle that did it after the passing of my godmother and I understand and the wife has been nothing but good for him and his children and adored and welcomed by our family. I watch other people move on as well and while I can see where they want the companionship and the romance I just don't get it. My MIL is already in a relationship granted years after her husband died and while no one including mcluding my husband liked my FIL we are still struggling with how to deal with it. I just personally don' t wan't another companion besides my husband regardless of the reason why and I know many that feel the same way including my grandfather. Some people "need" a man or woman in their lives, I just am not in a place where I need companionship to be happy though I know others need it.

 

[cm8]

I could not give advice to anyone about this kind of thing. It's a very personal choice. I imagine it's horrible for her. That said, I don't believe I personally could go through with a divorce in her situation. I vowed "in sickness and in health" and meant it, and for me this kind of thing would fall under "sickness". She may not have made that vow, or she might interpret it differently, or she might not mind ignoring it. I don't think I could bring myself to break that vow in a situation like hers. I couldn't be happy with myself or someone else if I did. It might not be "happily ever after" but that isn't what I signed up for. I signed on for the good and the bad. I imagine I'd try to fill my life with good friends and enjoy their companionship. I'd just do without romance. It may not be the ideal way to live, but plenty of people manage it.

I know it must be terrible, though, and she's lucky to have a friend who wants to help her through this. I imagine she needs all the support she can get.

 

[Mrs. Darcy]

How you can compare mental capabilities of a teen to physical injury is beyond my comprehension. This man is no longer the man she married.

The way I see it, he's STILL the man she married, but with brain damage. She didn't say he was in a vegetative state. He's alert, awake, recognizes her and the children etc, but in a different way. People get dementia or Alzheimers and many wives stick with their husbands because they're still their husbands, no matter what, and in those cases many of the husbands don't even recognize their wives anymore. I'm sure those women would love to have a "normal" companion to spend the rest of their lives with, but they accept what has happened and they stick with their man, even if he can't act like a man anymore.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Just because she wants to change the legal status of their relationship, it doesn't necessarily follow that she is going to abandon him. If she has stuck by him for this long and still cares so much, it sure doesn't sound like she's going to stop having a relationship with him altogether. From what you've described, OP, it sounds like as long as she and the kids continue to visit that her husband will never even realize that anything has changed. If he would be perfectly happy with that relationship (and it sounds as if he is) why should she be deprived of having a real partner in life? For that matter, what about the kids and the fact that they don't really have a dad anymore? I'm sure they still love him but he can never again be there for all those dad-things - tossing a ball in the backyard, teaching them to ride a bike, giving advice, or walking his daughters down the aisle when they get married. Sure a lot of kids grow up just fine without that but, in this case, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I think it would be a shame for your friend and her kids to be deprived of a chance at a more normal life just to avoid offending other people.

Agree.

 

[JennaTX]

What a horrible situation for your friend, my prayers go out to her.

I have been married for 21 years and love my husband dearly, so this is a horrible question for anyone who is married and loves their husband/wife.

IMO the OP's friend is still so young, she wants the companionship of a SO.

I would divorce, still see him like I do, take the kids to see him, make sure he is taken care of until I die.

One thing I always ask myself when a question like this arises about marriage is what would I want for my son/daughter? If it was my child who was disabled I would embrace and accept whatever my SIL/DIL wanted and support them however I could.

But I don't think there is any "right" answer to this.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Your poor, poor friend.

I have been married 15 years and with my husband 20 (we started dating as teens). He is my best friend and closest companion by far. Even without the sex and romance I have never been even remotely as close to someone else as a friend as I am to him. It is different when it is your husband. That cannot be dulplicated any other way.

Personally, I would not want my husband to live a lonely life, deprived of even the CHANCE to find that. I would hope he would still be there for me in some capacity (I like the divorce him and then adopt him idea of a PP), but I would NEVER want to condemn someone I love to a lifetime of taking care of a me who was no longer even me. The idea of essentially torturing my loved ones like that is repulsive to me. So, to me, it is okay that this woman leaves (assuming they figure out the financial and legal ramifications in a way which will not deprive him of care).

Besides, the youngest child is only 5. So she was what? maybe 3 or 4 when she (for all intents and purposes) lost her daddy. Maybe, if everyone is really lucky, her mother will meet a wonderful man who can be a father to her and she will have a father who does fatherly things and loves her as a daughter for at least part of her childhood (it is doubtful she remembers much of the time when her father was all there). As a mother, had my kids lost me to that state at young ages I would sincerely hope my husband could have found and remarried someone who would provide the love and guidance to my children that i was no longer able to provide.

 

[Longsx3]

Thanks guys. His family is against divorce no matter what - they absolutely believe that 'for better or worse' is the rule. Also, I think they are secretly afraid that she will move on and their son would mean less in her life (I don't think that would happen, but who knows what would happen 10 years from now?) As for our friends, one couple can't accept that he will never re-gain what he once had mentally, while I suspect another friend is imagining herself being the one left behind and can't condone it. It is so very sad all the way around.

Reading your post at first, I was disappointed that his family would not support your friends decision more but the bolded statement above really hit me. Honestly they are probably right, if she was to eventually enter into another relationship would she owe to her new partner to put him first.

Either way I really feel for your friend, it must be extremely difficult for her.

 

[livie1205]

I am wondering what all the 'in sickness in health" people would do in the case of a spouse with sex addiction? someone who has affair after affair and all the things that come with that...putting your own health at risk? She is a young women who will never know her husband in the intimate way again,never have that close friend again and live a very lonely life at night without her spouse she loves.I dont think you can pick and choose the "sickness" so would you let your kids live with that kind of life watching a sex addict or drug addict?
She has to do this for HER not her kids,they will turn into adults and have their own spouse but she will be alone.I cant believe all the judgement.NO ONE knows how they will handle it until it happens to you...even IF you THINK what you will do.what if your spouse has a mental problem and turns violent and it puts you or your kids in danger?saying you will leave them will make you a hypocrite for saying to this person to stick it out.This man is not handicapped he is nor ever will be the same man or husband.My heart breaks for her,but if it were my husband I would want him to move on...and if he remarried I would welcome a good women to step in and be some kind of parent or even mom to my child! That is the most unselfish choice...I would hate to know my dd would never have the support or love of a women that wanted to be a mom.

 

[Owlpost23]

Violent outbursts and children aren't a good mix.Your poor friend.

 

[luvsJack]

This must be very heartbreaking for your friend and everyone seeing her struggle with this. My heart really goes out to her.

She has to make the decision that is best for her and her children. It cannot be based on what anyone else wants or thinks she should do.

Life is short and you only get one shot at it. Why should she be subjected to a life of being lonely and unhappy because of something she has no control over? From the sounds of it all, he wouldn't be hurt over this as he doesn't understand the husband/wife relationship anyway. And if she is still willing to be there for him, visit him, make sure he is cared for--then she should do what she feels is right for her. She is not abandoning him, just giving herself a life back.

As for the "in sickness and in health"; well I take those vows pretty serious too. I have said them twice in a church so vowed them to a higher power than my husband. The first husband had a sickness called alcoholism. I wasn't going to waste the life the Lord gave me by being miserable with him. I just don't believe that those vows imcompass all sickness and all situations.

I am not comparing the two situations, but just saying that there are some situations that are a bit more complicated that can be covered in a wedding vow.

 

[mhsjax]

The way I see it, he's STILL the man she married, but with brain damage. She didn't say he was in a vegetative state. He's alert, awake, recognizes her and the children etc, but in a different way. People get dementia or Alzheimers and many wives stick with their husbands because they're still their husbands, no matter what, and in those cases many of the husbands don't even recognize their wives anymore. I'm sure those women would love to have a "normal" companion to spend the rest of their lives with, but they accept what has happened and they stick with their man, even if he can't act like a man anymore.

My problem is the age. Most people that get dementia or Alzheimers are usually quite a bit older, not that it makes it any easier, but at 48 I think differently than I would in my thirties. If my DH developed any of these things when older I would stay, but I have had so many great years with him. I can't imagine being that young and going through my whole like with a man in a nursing home, that will never be a husband in any way and at her age, she probably has at least 40 years of this, maybe more. Is she supposed to live live this for that long? Then again, I also can't imagine divorcing him. I don't see this as back and white at all. And mostly due to her young age.