A quick comparision on illegal immigration!

[poptoone]

Sheesh people. Why are we picking apart one tiny little line from the OP? The issue is about illegals using our resources much more than it is about the English language.

Ding, Ding, Ding we have a two time winner on this thread!

 

[SandraVB79]

I wonder if this is how the Native Americans felt when their land was invaded?

This is something I have always thought while watching Gangs of New York. One group calls themselves the "natives" and doesn't like the other immigrants. However, at one point, they were immigrants themselves.

Deporting illegals isn't so easy as it seems; especially considering the fact that children born in the US are US citizens. You can't send the parents back without the children (well, in theory, you can, but I'd be shocked if they ever do that), however, since the children are American, you can't really send them back from where the parents came from. What if that country doesn't want them?
Sure, you (general you) can say "not my problem", but if that ever happens... I feel very sorry for you. Really.

Building a wall is not a solution, they did that in Berlin and are doing it in Israel.

Btw, I live in a very small country, where we have 3 official languages, consumer good packaging with even more languages and an awful illegal immigration problem. They come from everywhere: Africa, Asia, Middle east, all those former Russian countries, ...
Building a wall is not a solution, they did that in Berlin

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

This is something I have always thought while watching Gangs of New York. One group calls themselves the "natives" and doesn't like the other immigrants. However, at one point, they were immigrants themselves.

For the people that bring up the Native Americans, I always wonder why? We're talking about people breaking the laws as they stand right now. We're not talking about ancient history. Plus do they think the Native Americans had some kind of Moral Authority on this issue themselves? When the Aztecs were expanding their empire from Southern USA to Mexico and they came across a peaceful tribe, does anyone think they asked kindly to just leave, or paid them well for their land??

This is just another smoke screen put up by the opposition. Just like the racist line. I'm sure there's a percentage of people who are against illegal immigration because they're racists. You're going to have stuff like that in any group. But when they voted on prob. 200 in Az to limit the services to illegals, over 50% of legal citizens of Mexican decent voted for it. (They must hate pushing 1 for English also)

 

[CheshireVal]

But when they voted on prob. 200 in Az to limit the services to illegals, over 50% of legal citizens of Mexican decent voted for it. (They must hate pushing 1 for English also)

Exactly. Most LEGAL immigrants really resent the whole situation with the illegals here in this country now. Legal immigrants have paid thousands of dollars and waded through hundreds of forms to get here. It's insulting to see the cheaters get rewarded without so much as a slap on the hand.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Exactly. Most LEGAL immigrants really resent the whole situation with the illegals here in this country now. Legal immigrants have paid thousands of dollars and waded through hundreds of forms to get here. It's insulting to see the cheaters get rewarded without so much as a slap on the hand.

Oh wow, I can attest to that! We have a lot of LEGAL immigrants working in our office from Italy, the Philipines, India, China, Argentina, Columbia...well, pretty much everywhere! If you want to start a riot, drop something about amnesty for illegal immigrants in the lunchroom!

I don't blame them, they all spent a lot of time and money and worked hard to learn the language to do well here. It really makes them crazy when they see people getting rewarded for not doing the same.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

somehow, when the author of the piece said "I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English", I don't think he was talking about products marketed specifically to Asian countries.

How do you know that? Seriously? At no point in that first post is "Spanish" even said.

You're joking, right? OK, let's say the author of the piece called Singapore Airlines, heard "press two for Cantonese" and blamed it on illegal immigrants. Then he's not too bright, is he?

Speaking of inferences, the writer of the piece in the OP assumes that the bilingual products and phone systems he encounters are there for illegal immigrants. Why is that? Could that not be for the benefit of non-English speaking citizens and legal residents?

Believe it or not, I do agree with most of your recent posts in this thread. I am against illegal immigration. I do think everyone who lives here should speak English, especially if they work with the public, though I don't really give a darn if Kellogg's wants to market their product to non-English speakers by printing bilingual Corn Flakes boxes. They're a private company, that's their choice.

I don't agree with playing the race card every time someone brings up illegal immigration. But what struck me as even worse in this thread was the response to that race card. Instead of showing why it's not about race or ethnicity by discussing other issues, people were trying to pretend that they had no idea why it was played. Sorry, to me, that just makes it seem that they can't come up with a good response.

I know this been beaten to death, but I agree with va32h, if you want to talk about illegal immigration, talk about it. The OP didn't do that, it just came across as the same "screaming and squawking" that it laments.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

That's kinda like going to Paris and requiring your waiter to speak Swahili to get your order, versus carrying a French phrasebook and attempting to speak/point to various objects.

Actually, many Americans do exactly this. Well, they don't expect Europeans to speak Swahili obviously, but English.

Traveling, it's always shocked me how many Americans I run into who don't even carry a phrase book and say there's no need to because "everyone here speaks English".

 

[Tigger Woods]

.

Building a wall is not a solution, they did that in Berlin

The wall in Berlin worked, did it not? We may not want to shoot illegals who make it over, but we can certainly send them back.

 

[CapeCodTenor]

Actually, many Americans do exactly this. Well, they don't expect Europeans to speak Swahili obviously, but English.

Traveling, it's always shocked me how many Americans I run into who don't even carry a phrase book and say there's no need to because "everyone here speaks English".

And this is one reason we have been given the label 'Ugly American" (though I'm sure there are a few more reasons than just that). We just assume that everyone will speak English. I'm actually embarrassed for those kinds of Americans.

 

[Tigger Woods]

I know this been beaten to death, but I agree with va32h, if you want to talk about illegal immigration, talk about it. The OP didn't do that, it just came across as the same "screaming and squawking" that it laments.

Civil discourse does not always lead to results. Thanks to 'screaming and squawking' Americans on both sides of the aisle, politicians are finally realizing they can no longer ignore illegal immigration..

 

[Tigger Woods]

And this is one reason we have been given the label 'Ugly American" (though I'm sure there are a few more reasons than just that). We just assume that everyone will speak English. I'm actually embarrassed for those kinds of Americans.

This thread is not about leisure travel. If someone wants to work and live in another country, they should at least attempt to learn that country's native tongue.

 

[LadyShiva]

Yeah, I could care less about multi-lingual packaging or even voicemail with multiple language options (which is why I mentioned my Pantene, etc). Cisco systems have a choice of six, and that doesn't irritate me in the least.

I think we have 2 lines of argument here; someone believed that the other choice MUST be Spanish on the bank system and said therefore we must hate Mexicans. I think that got crossed with the "so only English is allowed in the US, huh?" argument.

I got hot under the collar when the whole fuss started that it MUST be Mexicans we didn't like if we didn't agree with multi-lingual anything. Frankly, I don't think that way--there's more languages in the world than just English and Spanish. I have to admit that despite college classes for French, people in Paris winced when I spoke in French and seemed relieved when I asked if they would mind speaking in English. And yes, I carried two guide and phrase books myself. Whenever DH and I split up, he got one and I got one.

I have utter awe for a friend of mine from Tamil Nadu. He speaks Tamil, Hindi, English and French. Definitely has more brain cells than I do (see previous note of wincing Parisians!).

Brandie

 

[LadyShiva]

Sorry, Mrs. Toad, didn't address your issue with the OP's annoyance at pressing one for English.

If you take the citizenship test in English, which language should you know as a legal citizen of the US? You can talk all you want about people speaking other languages, etc, but if you are a legal citizen, you definitely speak English (at the very least). Your children who are born here go to schools that are primarily taught in English. They may have secondary classes in other languages (not limited to Spanish, by the way), but their primary classes are still taught in English. When you take the Oath of Citizenship, it is given in English.

I believe that is a valid argument. You may know other languages, but the language of business and government in America should primarily be English. I have no beef with secondary means of conversation being in other languages (hey, I've gone to Chinese restaurants, mob pizza parlors, and various other establishments where I got my food just fine, but the conversations between the owners and everyone else was in another language and I survived just fine-and ate darn well, too!).

The Supreme Court ruled that it is valid in a business establishment to mandate all conversation be held in English. That's a significant stance to take in terms of this argument, too. You can mandate your workers ONLY speak in your language while on the clock.

Brandie

 

[CapeCodTenor]

This thread is not about leisure travel. If someone wants to work and live in another country, they should at least attempt to learn that country's native tongue.

I know it's not about leisure travel. Thank you for clearing that up for me. The comment was made about traveling and Americans not carrying a phrase book, and I made a comment about traveling and Americans.

I do agree that if you are going to live in a country learn the language.

 

[connorlevismom]

I know it's not about leisure travel. Thank you for clearing that up for me. The comment was made about traveling and Americans not carrying a phrase book, and I made a comment about traveling and Americans.

I do agree that if you are going to live in a country learn the language.

What about all the people from all over the world that come to DW who don't speak english? Going by your logic, they are in our country and should be carrying books around attempting to speak english. Why is it OK to not attempt english here, but if we go anywhere else we are "ugly american's" for doing the same thing? Kind of hypocritical.

Kristine

 

[CapeCodTenor]

What about all the people from all over the world that come to DW who don't speak english? Going by your logic, they are in our country and should be carrying books around attempting to speak english. Why is it OK to not attempt english here, but if we go anywhere else we are "ugly american's" for doing the same thing? Kind of hypocritical.

Kristine

It's not hypocritical on my part. I feel people from all over the world should at least attempt to speak some English when they come to this country. If we have a group of Germans who are visting DW, and they are in Germany in EPCOT, then of course they can speak German to their fellow countrymen. However, if you're dealing with everyday Americans they should attempt to speak English. I've always felt this way and always will. And I won't Apologize for it. As the saying goes, when in Rome.

 

[connorlevismom]

It's not hypocritical on my part. I feel people from all over the world should at least attempt to speak some English when they come to this country. If we have a group of Germans who are visting DW, and they are in Germany in EPCOT, then of course they can speak German to their fellow countrymen. However, if you're dealing with everyday Americans they should attempt to speak English. I've always felt this way and always will. And I won't Apologize for it. As the saying goes, when in Rome.

I am sorry, I should have clarified that I don't think YOU are hypocritical. I did not mean that and I am sorry that I did not make that more clear.

I meant the people with that midset are hypocritial.

Kristine

 

[LadyShiva]

nevermind, clarified already.

Brandie

 

[GeorgeG]

Let's turn things around a bit...

If you were going to visit a non-English speaking country for any significant length of time, wouldn't want to learn at least some basics of the language spoken there? I don't care what they speak to each other here, but refusing to learn even basic English while enjoying citizen benefits is downright arrogance. I'm beginning to think the fast-food places use numbered combos to make it easier for the employees to know what you want. It's only a matter of time until they expect us to order uno, dos, tres...

 

[LadyShiva]

Let's turn things around a bit...

If you were going to visit a non-English speaking country for any significant length of time, wouldn't want to learn at least some basics of the language spoken there? I don't care what they speak to each other here, but refusing to learn even basic English while enjoying citizen benefits is downright arrogance. I'm beginning to think the fast-food places use numbered combos to make it easier for the employees to know what you want. It's only a matter of time until they expect us to order uno, dos, tres...

I don't agree with your logic here, because of the Supreme Court ruling allowing employers to require their employees to speak English.

Additionally, I have lead an outsourcing effort to India. Speaking English properly was highly sought after. If someone's English skills were found to be deficient, they were sent by their company to additional English training.

However, when I went to India for a month, I did not speak any Tamil or Hindi. I also did not carry any phrase books, because I was reassured by my Indian friends and co-workers that people would prefer to speak English. I learned cultural etiquette and followed it consciously. I was also a representative of an American company that wrote code, sold that product, and published documentation purely in English.

Brandie