A question for Christians

But what about the people in the jungle? I'm not talking about the ones that ate the missionaries, I'm talking about the people who have never seen another person outside of their own village. Never saw a white man, never saw a Christian, never heard of god - what about them? Are they going to hell? If heaven is only for Christians, like some have stated, and everyone else is doomed because they didn't accept Christ, and GOD put these people on an island in the middle of nowhere, did God himself condemn them to hell?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, honestly, but this is one of those key issues that turned me away from Christianity when I was young. Everyone barks at you that you're most definitely going to hell if you haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, but have no idea what's going to happen to the people who've never heard of Jesus.

I don't think there is a general answer to this. While I would like to say that anyone who has not heard automatically "goes to heaven", I kind of have a hard time with anyone who thinks its OK to kill someone else, etc. I don't have the answer, and as I am pretty sure God is not a DIS member, I don't think anyone else here does either.


For what it is worth, as a Christian, I believe "Heaven" is being in the presence of God as He is understood in Christianity, and "Hell" is not being in the presence of God, as He is understood by Christianity. I have a really hard time understanding why people get worked up about the whole Christian heaven/hell concept if they don't hold Christian beliefs in the first place.

If someone is not a Christian, why do they give a hoot?
 
Well, according to Christian theology, God has changed his mind in the past. The Jews had a covenant, and then God decided to erase that covenant when he sent Jesus. (Never mind the fact that God said the covenant was everlasting.)


I don't think he changed his mind, I think the Bible gives one covenant for those who are Jewish, and one for those who are not. :confused3
 
I just reread Romans Chapters 1 and 2 based on a post of Jimmie's earlier.

I really think what you posted above is what it means. I agree with your interpretation.

Funny, (not so funny) thing is, I don't think this is my church's official stance on the subject...and that's a little disturbing. I believe if I asked the pastors it would be "Jesus or nothing" kwim?

I need to spend more time studying this topic.

jimmie's verse was actually the main verse that stood out for me. I did a lot of studying in Romans. I have no idea what my class concluded with. I don't think many people were as bothered by it as I was. I do believe my preacher thinks along the lines I do. However, from the SBC website, it has some differing views. It was a topic that really bothered me.

Great post Buckalew!

Re: the above part of your post:

I believe Christ's return will be delayed until the Gospel has been preached in literally every corner of the earth.
Thanks, jimmie. I have put so much time, effort, thought into it--I was shocked when I read her question on here! I immediately thought of the *thud* smilie!:)

Let the missionaries go forth! Maybe that is why we are supposed to (obligated to) tell everyone about the miracle of Jesus....to eventually reach into all the corners of the world. And really, it's not just heathens in the jungle, what about communist North Korea? I have read that if your found with a Bible there, it's pretty much a death sentence.

I am sure you are correct with that is why we are to go and tell. It is a tough subject for me because as a young girl I wanted to go to Africa and be a missionary. Then I met DH and he is a homebody who after 20 years says he would like to do a mission trip to Africa maybe. I dream of holding those AIDS babies and helping in some small way.
And we have freedom here to worship God without the threat of being killed because we have a Bible. But how often do we even read it? People are dying for their faith in other countries. How would we react to that?

We are given much and therefore accountable for much. That scares me. I find comfort only in God in this topic because whether I am right or wrong, He knows my heart and I only hope He will judge me accordingly.
 
I think there are a few (very few) Christian faiths that only recognize Jesus. Otherwise, I think the idea of the trinity is not just ours.


Sorry for being naive, but what Christian denominations only recognize Jesus?
 

Doesn't you religion put Jesus before God then? I'm trying to follow the logic but can't wrap my head around it.

~Amanda


Not to be Joe, but the "part" of God that came to earth and made the sacrifice to die for our sins was Jesus. To me, and this may not be true for others, the only thing that makes me even worthy of God acknowledging that I exist outside of my sinfulness is that Jesus made the sacrifice to die on the cross for my sins, to take the punishment for me, so that God could even see me through the cloud of unworthiness. If I did not believe in Jesus, well, in my beliefs I would have no hope at all, because try as I may not to, I sin.
 
Jimmie, Brenda, Aidensmom (and Zip who's not here right now)...

It's late and I'm a little sappy, but can I just tell you how much of a blessing it has been for me to bounce ideas around with you and learn from/with you for the last few years?
 
Jimmie, Brenda, Aidensmom (and Zip who's not here right now)...

It's late and I'm a little sappy, but can I just tell you how much of a blessing it has been for me to bounce ideas around with you and learn from/with you for the last few years?


I'm a little sappy too, but I can say the same thing, substitute your name for mine.
 
I always learn here. I know a lot of people hate these "religious" threads but I love them and learn from you all and other Christians and non-Christians too. I see another side from reading people's thoughts and opinions and I also see like minded people who I respect and learn from.
Thank you for feeling that way as I feel the same.
 
In Christianity, the Book of Life contains the names of all believers. Jesus is the only one worthy to open the Book of Life. Those who reject Christ will be shown that their name is NOT in there.

Revelation 20

15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Oh, well that makes sense. There is more than one Book of Life - one for Jewish people and one for Christian people! Or are you saying that Jesus opens the same Book that G-d writes names in during the Jewish high holy days? I might be confused there. Also, when does he open the Book to see the names of the believers?

Is anyone familair enough with some of the non Judeo-Christian religions to know if they also have a Book of Life?
 
I don't think he changed his mind, I think the Bible gives one covenant for those who are Jewish, and one for those who are not. :confused3

That's an interesting take on it, but I don't agree. The only time in the Hebrew Scriptures that God mentions a new covenant is in Jeremiah 31:31-34. God starts out saying he will make it with the houses of Israel and Judah. That means the Jews, not the gentiles. And it's debatable, but to me it looks as though the new covenant is not so much a new set of rules, but a reaffirmation of the law. Jesus himself said that he didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.
 
I want to think, ponder, question and all that too but I do NOT want to come up with "my own ideas". No thanks. We'd all have different ideas (as seen here) and how would that be fair and just? I want to know what God expects and I think He is pretty clear about it all. I am thankful for that because guessing and always wondering if I'm on the right path would be terrible in my mind. Jesus stated "It is finished". I believe that. He did what He came to do for each one of us. We can be reconciled to God through His actions and love for us.

As for the man in the jungle. We talked in my SS class about him for several weeks actually. There were differing views on it. I spent quite a sleepless week worried about that man in the jungle and trying to find answers.

This is what I believe (which means nothing to most).

I believe that God has put into each life a desire to know Him in some way. There is something in us that makes us wonder if there is something or someone greater than ourselves out there. I belive we each have a void that can only be truly filled with God's love. Anything else will not do.

I think it is true that there are people who have never been told about what Jesus did for them. But I do believe that God shows Himself through nature, His creation, and through different individual things in our lives. So, I believe that even if someone has never heard specifically about Jesus, that if they recognize to the best of their capability that there is something greater than themselves and they are not (for example) worshiping the tree that bears them good fruit to eat and shade from the sun etc. but believes that something, someone made the tree and placed it there, and that is all they may know as God, then God would judge their heart accordingly.

I think if they worshiped a false god, (say the tree itself) that would be unacceptable to God. I think god knows our hearts and will be fair. If we have heard about Jesus and reject His actions and love for us on the cross then, yes, I think you will be judged according to that and held accountable for it.

I think if you are not mentally capable, too young, etc. to understand the concept of salvation through Christ then God will judge you fairly also because He knows that person's heart.

I have thought about this long and hard and read and studied until I could not see straight just a few weeks ago. I will say my class had different thoughts and opinions and some people held everyone equally accountable whether they were living in the USA or that deep, dark jungle. It was a subject that we just agree to disagree on.

As a Christian, if I believed that Jesus Christ was the only way for that man in the deepest darkest jungle to have salvation and it was going to be partly my fault that he would not know and would be eternally separated from God because of it, I would sell everything I own and I'd head to the jungle. I could not lay head on a pillow at night and have any type of peace knowing that that person's salvation was up to Christians and me specifically.

These are just my own thoughts. Something I have thought long and hard about this year.



I agree. Great post!
 
I believe that God has put into each life a desire to know Him in some way. There is something in us that makes us wonder if there is something or someone greater than ourselves out there. I belive we each have a void that can only be truly filled with God's love. Anything else will not do.

You and I have touched on this topic briefly before so I know we disagree on this point, but anyway...

I absolutely believe that there are some people who are NOT born with that desire to know God. Their brain is just not wired that way. My Mother was one. It wasn't just with religious matters, she simply had no sense of wonder about anything. I, on the other hand, wonder about everything - but I couldn't talk to her about those types of things (dreams, coincidences, anything non-tangible) because she would look at me like had 3 heads and have absolutely no idea what I was talking about. It wasn't just that she wasn't interested - she truly had no idea what I was talking about. I have a very difficult time believing that my Mother and people like her are in Hell. It wasn't a choice with her, it was just how she was.
 
I will follow what God said in His Word the best that I can, and know that I am saved soley thru my acceptance of Jesus Chirst, His Son, who died for all sin.

God did say to speak for Him -- to preach the Gospel (the good news) of salvation thru His Son, Jesus.

The Bible said to speak ABOUT Him...not for Him. HUGE difference.
 
I would never in my life ever be so presumptious as to say that I know I'll be let into Heaven. Jesus and God are indeed a part of my life, but by the very virtue of being a human being, I have flaws. There never has been, nor ever will be anyone who is perfect. Nevertheless, I am also pretty confident that I do live my life in a manner that God would find acceptable and so for that, I'm grateful simply for the time I have spent on earth and will spend in the years to come. As for Heaven, it is only God's decision and no one else's whether I belong there or not.

All that being said, I wouldn't know what to say, nor would I have to, because God already knows.
 
I always learn here. I know a lot of people hate these "religious" threads but I love them and learn from you all and other Christians and non-Christians too. I see another side from reading people's thoughts and opinions and I also see like minded people who I respect and learn from.
Thank you for feeling that way as I feel the same.



I agree with you 100%!
 
God's Word, the Bible speaks for Him. :)

Salavation is clear in the New Testament of the Bible.

I KNOW I'll be in heaven.


Yikes. Be careful dude. I would never be so presumptious to think so. Even Jesus questioned Himself. Pride is a deadly sin.
 
I would never in my life ever be so presumptious as to say that I know I'll be let into Heaven. Jesus and God are indeed a part of my life, but by the very virtue of being a human being, I have flaws. There never has been, nor ever will be anyone who is perfect. Nevertheless, I am also pretty confident that I do live my life in a manner that God would find acceptable and so for that, I'm grateful simply for the time I have spent on earth and will spend in the years to come. As for Heaven, it is only God's decision and no one else's whether I belong there or not.

All that being said, I wouldn't know what to say, nor would I have to, because God already knows.

There was a perfect person...Jesus Christ. Only one, sinless and perfect,

The reason I believe I will be in Heaven when I die has nothing to do with me--it has everything to do with what Christ did for me. I chose to accept Him when I was convicted but other than that, Jesus paid the price for my "wages of sin is death".

The reason I believe I have the assurance of Heaven is because of what I read in the Bible. If I am reading it wrong or interpreting it wrong than my confidence in Christ's gift to me is off base. I am not worthy of heaven. I do believe scripture tells us we can know for sure and I think that is probably the most wonderful part of salvation to me. Otherwise I would worry about always needing to be good enough.

I realize we all view these things differently but I hate for someone to say someone like me is pretentious or "self-righteous" in my (their) confidence in God's gift of salvation through Christ.
 
Yikes. Be careful dude. I would never be so presumptious to think so. Even Jesus questioned Himself. Pride is a deadly sin.


I know I'll be in heaven. There is no doubt in my mind. I would imagine others here would say the same. It's not pride or bragging, because I didn't do anything to deserve it. Actually, just the opposite! Like you Rick, I think I live a moral & upstanding life, by human standards. But the Bible says my very best is "as filthy rags" to God. I am righteous before God for only one reason: I claim the blood of Christ Jesus!
 


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