A Pause on DVC

[Brian Noble]

Their more laid-back approach leaves prospects less likely to purchase immediately. All it takes is a Google search to find resellers and websites like the DIS.

Disney is able to get folks to buy all kinds of things that make no sense. I have faith that they can continue!

As for searching: My sense from TUG, TS4M, and sites like this, most people don't. This is an aspirational purchase. If someone is seriously thinking about doing it, they tend not to go out of their way to find reasons not to.

 

[GAN]

Disney is able to get folks to buy all kinds of things that make no sense. I have faith that they can continue!

Yes. Things that make no sense to you. Why that would be important to me or anyone else, I'm not sure.

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes. Things that make no sense to you. Why that would be important to me or anyone else, I'm not sure.

In the case Tim was talking about (AKV direct vs. resale) there isn't an argument. There is no rational basis for a direct purchase.

 

[Halle]

I hate DVC because in order for you to feel like your'e getting a good "deal" as a DVC owner, Disney has to charge non-owners significantly more money for the same resort. It's the same thing with the dining plan- food prices keep going up because "wow I can't believe I can get a $40 steak for 'free' because I'm on the dining plan!" Not enough people would to pay $650 a night to stay at the grand floridian villas, but they charge that price as rack rate so DVC owners are like "wow look how much I save every year by buying into DVC!" Through different methods I can stay at DVC resorts for little more than the cost of maintenance fees DVC owners pay every year. And almost nobody is selling their DVC timeshares for more than they paid right now. The reason the resale market has sprung up full time businesses around it is people can't afford it. I find timeshares to be in the same category as casinos, multi-level marketing schemes, and other shady real estate investments.

The average cost of a timeshare in the U.S. is $14,500. If you put that money in a mutual fund averaging 12% over 10 years, you would have almost $48,000. Pretty good.

In 20 years, you would have over $178,000. Even better.

In 40 years, you would have over $1.7 million! That's a lot of free money! Hope you like the vacation house!

We just sold our OKW contract for over $10,000 more than what we paid for it in 1993. We also enjoyed eight years of free passes.

 

[Dean]

You're right, of course. However, I suspect differences in the sales approach play a big role in the success of Wyndham and others. Luring guests in with free or low-cost stays and then applying intense sales pressure is not a tactic DVC typically employs. Their more laid-back approach leaves prospects less likely to purchase immediately. All it takes is a Google search to find resellers and websites like the DIS.

Tim, you've likely seen me say before that DVD leaves a lot of sales on the table. Certainly companies like Wyndham, Bluegreen, Westgate, etc are very aggressive and often questionable in their sales practices but they still have a good product. Other companies like Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt, & Hilton manage to be more aggressive than DVD but professional. IMO DVC has left a LOT of sales on the table and I believe inappropriately so. I believe there are many things DVD could do and still fulfill the standards that they have historically upheld. We've seen info over the past few years that those standards have slipped with more aggressive tactics coming from sales. Some will say they this is the reason they own DVC but truthfully I doubt anyone ever bought mainly because of the low key sales though I'm sure some will say they did. Historically DVD tends to be overly optimistic on sales at resorts that offer challenges like HH, VB, SSR, or AKV. This and the low key approach has negatives for members as well. It's cost us a number of off property options historically that we know off and likely the mediocre perks package we've historically seen as well.

Specific to AKV, that resort sold at a slower pace than BLT with lower prices, often during a better economy. Those factors combined with widespread resale availability leave me doubting that Disney would ever revisit that property. I hope we can agree that DVC will be more successful selling a resort when there is little-to-no resale competition. The degree of impact is open to debate, though.

I think DVD is believes they can sell anything that approximates the rest of DVC and is "on property". And who can argue with them given that they've raised prices so much in the last few years, sold SSR which was more challenging than AKV IMO and taken to increasing prices on both sides by increasing both points and cost. We see it here where people are buying blindly when buy retail for a property they could own for half at older properties knowing the option of retail exists and getting nothing of value in return.

For DVD to take the approach they must build at the highest demand locations leaves them a lot less options and essentially dooms the program IMO. To do add on's and conversions gives finite and limited options. The only other approach to fulfill that direction would be to build stand alone DVC's basically at the parks, an option they haven't ventured to thus far. Even if they converted one of the hotels at DL, build a second BLT, added on at the YC & did the leaked FW resort that's a limited life of the system. Otherwise it's options at a moderate or value locations. Now I personally see lots of opportunities for DVD but it'd take some changes from what they've done historically both from a build and a sales direction.

 

[joxer1014]

I guess this board lost its focus a little. Whether or not it is a valid point, I am still hoping for DVC to build on the old River Country. It is a large piece of land and it is attached to FW and within walking distance to WL. Ok a somewhat long walk but you can walk it. River Country has sat there abandoned for far too long IMHO.

 

[GAN]

I guess this board lost its focus a little. Whether or not it is a valid point, I am still hoping for DVC to build on the old River Country. It is a large piece of land and it is attached to FW and within walking distance to WL. Ok a somewhat long walk but you can walk it. River Country has sat there abandoned for far too long IMHO.

Pretty sad -I remember having a great time there back in the mid-80's. I think it was probably the first "themed" water parks I had ever been to ...I'm guessing there weren't too many like it when it opened. Although, putting a DVC in that area would be a nice idea -especially if you could tie the old waterpark into the theme somehow.

 

[court9008]

I guess this board lost its focus a little. Whether or not it is a valid point, I am still hoping for DVC to build on the old River Country. It is a large piece of land and it is attached to FW and within walking distance to WL. Ok a somewhat long walk but you can walk it. River Country has sat there abandoned for far too long IMHO.

Yes, this board has lost its focus. The intention of this board was to discuss potential ideas for the future of DVC properties and WDW resorts in general. It was NOT created for a debate of whether or not a DVC purchase was valuable and for bragging rights on the least amount of money spent on a DVC resort. If I wanted that discussion, then I would have created a thread for it. I've been very busy lately, so I'm just now catching up on all the comments. I just thought I would give a reminder on the goal of this thread.

 

[wench]

Revenue from DVC sales is classified as Theme Park Revenue. If they stop building & selling then the it will appear as if the Theme Park revenue suddenly crashed. Even though everyone at Disney would understand why the numbers had plummeted, I don't think they ever want to see this happen. As long as we're still buying, they'll keep building. Everything I've heard in past year or so supports the expansion of DVC at VWL. It's supposed to be a conversion of rooms in the main building like they did with Jambo House at AKL.

 

[tjkraz]

Revenue from DVC sales is classified as Theme Park Revenue. If they stop building & selling then the it will appear as if the Theme Park revenue suddenly crashed.

Last quarter the Parks & Resorts division reported revenue of $3.9 billion. Based upon the number of points being sold, DVC is likely in the range of $100-120 million revenue per quarter--about 2-3% of the division total.

Probably not accurate to say that revenue would "crash" without DVC, but there would be a decline unless those dollars were made up elsewhere.

Perhaps more important to Disney is the fact that every DVC point sale guarantees a return guest, making it easier for them to earn additional revenue via park tickets, dining, recreation, etc.

 

[dmank]

Well to go back to the original post I love Hilton Head DVC and will be heading to VB in a couple months. I do love Disney but like other vacation options too. So I would love to see another location. We love staying at Marriott Vaca Clubs and maybe just need to buy in there!!!

 

[Dean]

Yes, this board has lost its focus. The intention of this board was to discuss potential ideas for the future of DVC properties and WDW resorts in general. It was NOT created for a debate of whether or not a DVC purchase was valuable and for bragging rights on the least amount of money spent on a DVC resort. If I wanted that discussion, then I would have created a thread for it. I've been very busy lately, so I'm just now catching up on all the comments. I just thought I would give a reminder on the goal of this thread.

I'm not sure about intent but I'd suggest that the possible reasons for DVC's choices including economics are c/w the OP. Many of these are negative to some people.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

To answer this question, one must have an understanding of WDPR that extends beyond the discussion boards. If you follow business, economic and tourism media (e.g., magazines, newspapers), then you will know that occupancy rates have been artificially manipulated for years. Through closures and refurbishments, WDW has been able to artificially inflate its occupancy rate, making it appear better than it really happens to be.

As Tim had previously mentioned, thousands of rooms are regularly available on a given night. A balanced take on the discussion board rumors and business media would suggest more Polynesian Village style conversions, at deluxe resorts, in DVC's future. This approach will minimize costs and address the occupancy issue.

If you follow and read the current permits, then you will be aware of the pending activity at Wilderness Lodge. Supposedly, in recent years, it has become commonplace for the Lodge's occupancy to dip below 50%.