A little int'l fun with a UK news story re: school uniforms.

[NotUrsula]

This week there was a near-riot in Margate, Kent (UK) earlier this week when the Headteacher of Hartsdown Academy, a local public school equivalent to a US combined Jr. High/High School, stood at the school gate on the first day of school and sent kids home for the day because their uniforms were "incorrect." Parents objected to what they considered overly-strict interpretation of the dress-code rules.The kids were busted for such violations as wearing white socks, wearing plain black sneakers, wearing shoes with metallic-colored buckles, or carrying their jackets in their schoolbags.

I have a lot of family in the UK, and our children are constantly having discussions about how different the US concept of a school uniform is from the UK version. (My DD9 likes to say that her cousins all look like they are headed for Hogwarts minus the robes, while my cousins' children think mine have it REALLY good on the uniform front because they don't have to wear tights and neckties.) In my experience, US public schools can't really enforce uniform rules at all, lest they be accused of making families buy things they cannot afford. (FTR, any of the items pictured in the story I've linked would be fine as uniform items at our school, and sneakers are actually preferred for safety reasons.)

The headteacher at Hartsdown seems to be choosing this as a hill to die on; the dress code really is bizarrely strict for a state-run school, even by UK standards. He turned away about 50 students the first day, and 20 on the second. (I think he would be aghast at the sort of casual stuff Americans consider acceptable in a typical school uniform, LOL.)

The story is making national news. Normally, I'm more of a Guardian reader, but I'm going to link the Daily Mail version of the story because it has so many photos along with their usual hyperbole: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...school-uniform-vows-daughter-dress-today.html

One of the things I found interesting in the story is that they chose to refuse the kids' entry to the school building. Here, a high-school student who is violating the uniform code will normally be supplied with a school-owned garment that complies, to be worn until the end of the school day. Normally, these pieces are in large sizes to fit more kids, and being seen being forced to wear one is considered a difficult-to-live-down experience. The idea is that they stay in class and learn a lesson via being embarassed about the baggy shirt or pants.

 

[jevs]

They can be strict here with the private (public) schools. One of the local ones enforces a strict seasonal rule, so summer uniform in summer and winter uniform in winter regardless of the weather.

The school my kids go to is pretty flexible and has options i.e polo shirt or button down shirt for boys, skirts/dresses or pants for girls. They can wear the summer uniform all year round if they want. The only things that they are strict on are wearing proper school shoes unless they have PE, and hats in the lower grades, and no hoodies permitted at all.

That said, it's up to the discretion of the teaching staff at the time, there have been reports of students being sent out of class for not being in the proper uniform and parents phoned to bring in the required items.

My eldest has been at the school for 8 years and I wouldn't have a clue what colour socks he should be wearing LOL.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I'm personally not a fan of uniforms, but I know they are seen as quite normal in UK schools. If kids really were getting bullied last year for following the rules, there is definitely an issue, but I don't think this dramatic display was the way to go about correcting it. There should have been letters to parents ahead of time, and medical exception forms for orthopedic shoes.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I read this and wondered if that headteacher was a failed Miltary entrant lol..

 

[PaulaSB12]

What got me was the woman whose son was told to wear trainers, because of a road accident. According to the mum the head told her he would rather the boy be in pain than wear trainers.

 

[godders]

I'm personally not a fan of uniforms, but I know they are seen as quite normal in UK schools. If kids really were getting bullied last year for following the rules, there is definitely an issue, but I don't think this dramatic display was the way to go about correcting it. There should have been letters to parents ahead of time, and medical exception forms for orthopedic shoes.

He did give them warning. Sent home a letter at the end of school in July to tell them. I'm English so I had a school uniform from ages 5-16 and then had no uniform at 6th form which is 16-18. School uniforms do help with bullying. We had kids come to school on mufti (non-uniform days for charity) in their school uniform rather than wear their own clothes. The freedom of being able to wear what you want in 6th form wore off pretty quickly as I was the sort of person who co-ordinated my 9 ear piercings with my outfit.

One of the examples from reports here showed a girl wearing brogues which are not school appropriate. It's about removing fashion elements from the uniform, creating an environment where all kids are equal and in my experience helps to identify troublemakers outside of school. I can't tell you how inappropriately short the girls in my year made their skirts (can't say I wasn't one of them). We all hated blazers and ties but we were in it together!

What got me was the woman whose son was told to wear trainers, because of a road accident. According to the mum the head told her he would rather the boy be in pain than wear trainers.

I honestly can't imagine a head-teacher actually telling someone that they'd rather a child be in pain. No doubt he will just be demanding a note from the Dr to explain why the boy needs to where trainers which personally I don't think is that big of a deal. You'd be surprised what parents will say so either they don't have to spend a bit of extra money or so their snowflake can look good (and thereby making the parent look good).

I'm only 26 btw and still have elements of my uniform tucked away ready to crack out for fancy dress. All of my friends and I look back on our blazers with nostalgia and stories about how we got into trouble for doing something with our uniform or whatever. We were also really lucky because there are some AWFUL uniforms out there (green and brown ankle length tartan skirt I'm looking at you) and ours was just black and white. Once we saw some of the other options out there we never complained again

 

[NotUrsula]

In the US the issue around shoes (when there is one) is usually safety. When certain types of shoes are banned it is usually because they are lacking some structural element. It is common, for example, to ban original Crocs clogs because they slip easily and can fly off if the foot is kicked, or to ban open-toed because someone might step on your toes. Athletic shoes are now pretty standard at public schools.

My elder sisters went to Catholic high schools in the 1950's and 60's, their uniforms were navy blue, and the first two photos show their respective "regulation" school shoes in the US at the time: both happened to be made by a company called GH Bass, which is still very much in business and still sells these styles, though I haven't seen either style on a school uniform list in decades. I didn't have a uniform at public school in the 70's, but my eldest child wore something very similar to the third pair at Catholic HS three years ago with regulation tan trousers, and my youngest is wearing the last pair with her navy blue public school uniform dress today (dress style is pictured as well.) Typical black leather UK "school oxfords" are actually kind of hard to find for females in the US nowadays.

 

[bcla]

My elder sisters went to Catholic high schools in the 1950's and 60's, their uniforms were navy blue, and the first two photos show their respective "regulation" school shoes in the US at the time: both happened to be made by a company called GH Bass, which is still very much in business and still sells these styles, though I haven't seen either style on a school uniform list in decades. I didn't have a uniform at public school in the 70's, but my eldest child wore something very similar to the third pair at Catholic HS three years ago with regulation tan trousers, and my youngest is wearing the last pair with her navy blue public school uniform dress today (dress style is pictured as well.) Typical black leather UK "school oxfords" are actually kind of hard to find for females in the US nowadays.

I went to a Catholic elementary school until we moved. I remember my first few days I wore sneakers until my parents were told it wasn't up to uniform specs. We actually our shoes at Stride-Rite, where it was supposed to be tan leather shoes - either rounded toes or "cruisers".

Our uniform was a cardigan and white dress shirt/blouse. Boys wore salt and pepper trousers which later changed to gray corduroy. Girls wore plaid skirts. Seemed pretty standard for Catholic schools at the time. There was one specialty uniform store where we got our sweaters and shirts. The pants we could find anywhere, but I think the girls got their skirts at the uniform store.

 

[momz]

One of the things I found interesting in the story is that they chose to refuse the kids' entry to the school building. Here, a high-school student who is violating the uniform code will normally be supplied with a school-owned garment that complies, to be worn until the end of the school day. Normally, these pieces are in large sizes to fit more kids, and being seen being forced to wear one is considered a difficult-to-live-down experience. The idea is that they stay in class and learn a lesson via being embarassed about the baggy shirt or pants.

I find it horrible that a school would have a policy to intentionally embarrass kids in this way. Being a teenager is hard enough without having adults finding ways to cause embarrassment as well.

 

[NotUrsula]

I find it horrible that a school would have a policy to intentionally embarrass kids in this way. Being a teenager is hard enough without having adults finding ways to cause embarrassment as well.

I don't think it's done when the kid simply doesn't have the uniform item; in cases like that they just contact the parents, and if need be, arrange some way for the kid to get what he or she is missing. (Which you will note, was a procedure rejected by the headteacher in the Hartsdown case.)

The "baggy school shirt" treatment is usually reserved for cases where the violation is a deliberate attempt to circumvent the code in a way that makes the clothing more sexy or more stylish, and IMO, using this punishment for that simply fits the crime. If you think you're too cool to wear the uniform, then making you look as un-cool as possible for a short period of time is a fitting punishment.

Besides that, schools have been doing it forever; how else would you explain this? https://img1.etsystatic.com/102/0/12389180/il_340x270.1032038083_h8hp.jpg (which btw, does not date from the 1940's; that is the new and improved gymsuit model from the 1970's that finally replaced the blue cotton bloomer gymsuit of American legend. Ours were ORANGE!) I will never forget how incredibly ugly those gym uniforms were, and there could have been no other motivation for their choice but to take young ladies' egos down a peg. (This was in the era when we were not required to wear any kind of uniform for regular classes.) They did not enhance comfort or athletic performance one iota, and they were not chosen on cost, either. (If that had been the reason, they would have let us wear the same gym clothing style that the boys had, which cost about 50% less.) For one thing, they took so long to wiggle into or out of (you had to squeeze into it via the "stretch" mock-turtle neckhole) that we were forbidden to shower after gym. They were cut tight and high to the neck, with the bottom having an inseam about 3 inches long, and they were made of polyester knit, which was guaranteed to stink after wearing it. Absolutely ghastly in all respects.

 

[Disney_traveler]

The school I work at is insanely strict about pants with holes/shredding. They were sending quite a few kids to the office the first day to either have a change of clothes brought or go home and change. This isn't a new rule, it's been in place at least 5 years. I understand pants like that is a "thing" now. At first they were enforcing as "no skin showing" so the kids would wear colorful tights/leggings underneath or put a piece of that brightly colored or patterned duct tape. No skin was showing. Now they won't allow that! In my opinion, as long as they aren't scantily clad or naked, it doesn't matter to me. I want them to be comfortable in order to be there a full day. But I feel the same way that we as teachers should be allowed to wear nice jeans whenever and as often as we want.

 

[mummabear]

God I hate uniforms!
DDs public school uniform is just a tshirt, sweater (summer or winter but no rules over when you have to wear either one), and plain black pants. Only rule about shoes is no open toes.
People here are pretty split on whether they like uniforms or not. We don't get much choice though since kids are going to their assigned school.
There was a case here that made the news where a new principal started at a school and changed the interpretation of "hair must be worn off the collar" to meaning that the kids (boys school) must be cut short not worn in a ponytail/bun (depending on length), they suspended the kid and the parents had to take the school to court to have him reinstated.

 

[cabanafrau]

I think the headteacher's head would have exploded if confronted with a mother and her freespirited daughter back when my kids were in lower elementary. Mom was a firm believer in allowing her children free choice in life, about pretty much everything. One of the girls decided in kindergarten that she wanted to wear a pair of galoshes every day. They were the type designed to be pulled on over your shoes, yet she was simply wearing them on her feet. They also were sized for a grown woman, not a five year old.

I know you may find this hard to believe, but she liked to skip and/or stomp around and made quite a lot of noise in the boots and frequently fell down in them. Apparently the teacher told the girl she could not wear them, but the girl was used to wearing and doing what she liked. Finally the teacher sent a note home for mom and mom came in guns blazing that no one was going to stifle her children's spirit and imagination and her daughter would wear whatever she felt like. I heard the principal had to become involved and really take a hard stand with the mother that the galoshes would not be allowed anymore because they were both a safety hazard and a disruption.