A humble request to ECV users

[roadtripper]

Maybe a good litmus test for ECV users is to think what they would do if they were told all of the spaces were taken. Would they get up and walk in or would they come back for the next show?

This was our experience last week, and probably one reason I found the experience so frustrating. There were two other people in ECVs who parked them with the strollers and walked all the way up to the theatre in the regular queue once they were told there was no more wheelchair seating. When Turtle Talk with Crush first opened, we had a similar experience, but the CM gave us a pass to come to the next show for reserved w/c seating. This should also be considered at other shows in order to avoid the scene and tears we had last week.

While I would like more seating to be available, I think Bill is right about courtesy and understanding. If people know the w/c/ECV seating is limited, and they can manage in a typical seat without discomfort, they should think about those who have no other options, and leave the spaces for them.

 

[BillSears]

...I hate the term FT or PT scooter user. I'm not PT handicap...

Sorry if I offended you with the part-time vs. full-time. I was just trying to differentiate between those who can’t walk at all vs. people like my Mom who uses an ECV only at WDW. My Mom has had knee surgeries and gets around fairly well in her day to day activities but can’t handle the distances at WDW. She gets an ECV and rides it between attractions and then parks it outside.

Everyone has different abilities and only you know what you can or cannot do. For me that means I'm a paraplegic who has no feeling or movement from the bottom of my ribcage down, I haven't stood up in over 30 years let alone walked. For others...maybe they can walk a few steps to a seat but maybe they can't.

 

[Mouse's Shadow]

I'm going to go in a different directon. I have a son who is unable to stand let alone walk. I understand everyone's frustration; especially when you live with the day to day challenges of mobility issues. As the discussion here highlights, in some cases there are no easy answers.

But I am so thankful for all that Disney does wonderfully to make our stays magical. From providing accessible buses, having rented medical equipment set up in our room on arrival, to stopping rides so that my son can make a transfer.

It's hard when you're tired, or your little one's crying. And there will always be insensitive people to deal with. I will always agree with adding more accessible seating. The one thing we can all agree with is that you can't look at someone and know what their challenges are. We can only be as courtious as we can be and struggle to have patients with those who aren't.

Now could one of you please remind me of those sentiments, the next time my magic bubble gets broken at Disney and I'm red in the face and about to explode.

 

[peemagg]

I will always agree with adding more accessible seating. The one thing we can all agree with is that you can't look at someone and know what their challenges are. We can only be as courtious as we can be and struggle to have patients with those who aren't.

EXACTLY!!! Just because one is in a ECV instead of a wheelchair, it doesn't make their handicap any less than those in wheelchairs. This thread is starting to become a "My handicap is worse than yours, so I should get this instead of you" thread.

 

[roadtripper]

EXACTLY!!! Just because one is in a ECV instead of a wheelchair, it doesn't make their handicap any less than those in wheelchairs. This thread is starting to become a "My handicap is worse than yours, so I should get this instead of you" thread.

I'm not sure where you're getting this on this thread. All some of us are saying is that if you can walk to and sit in a conventional seat without injury or discomfort, please think of those who can't, and do so for their sake.

And Mouse's shadow, I would LOVE to have your back on the whole "red in the face" thing, if you'll have mine!

 

[KPeveler]

I'm not sure where you're getting this on this thread. All some of us are saying is that if you can walk to and sit in a conventional seat without injury or discomfort, please think of those who can't, and do so for their sake.

And Mouse's shadow, I would LOVE to have your back on the whole "red in the face" thing, if you'll have mine!

I agree - I dont think anyone is saying "all ECV users must transfer" or even that "all ECV users CAN transfer."

I don't think anyone is claiming their disability is worse than anyone else's. I don't think anyone is implying that those using ECVs have fewer problems or anything... I just think people are discussing the need for different seating or different seating procedures in shows.

 

[peemagg]

When people are saying that those with wheelchairs are Full-time handicapped and those in ECV's are Part time handicapped, then that is where it comes down to "Mine is worse than yours". My disability is no less than anyone else's it is just different. It shouldn't be if you are in a wheelchair then you are fulltime handicapped and because I am not in a wheelchair and use a ECV my disability is only part time. That is where I came up with that.

 

[design_mom]

When people are saying that those with wheelchairs are Full-time handicapped and those in ECV's are Part time handicapped, ...

I didn't see anyone say that though. I think the full-time/part-time comment was a differentiation between people who need a wheelchair *or* ECV in daily life, versus those who use one only at WDW. I don't think anyone was trying to qualify a disability as part-time, just a difference in the amount of time that a mobility-assistance device is needed to deal with it.

 

[SueM in MN]

OK, everyone take a deep, calming breath before going on.

I agree - I dont think anyone is saying "all ECV users must transfer" or even that "all ECV users CAN transfer."

I don't think anyone is claiming their disability is worse than anyone else's. I don't think anyone is implying that those using ECVs have fewer problems or anything... I just think people are discussing the need for different seating or different seating procedures in shows.

I agree.
I don't think that anyone meant to claim anyone's disability was worse than anyone else's.

I think that it started out as a frustration with not enough accessible seats plus some misunderstanding.
No one was saying all ECV users should park their ECVs and sit in the seats. The OP was asking people who might be able to move to a seat to consider doing it if possible because of the limited number of seats. Most of the other discussion has been around how the seating is arranged.

Bill explained what he meant by full time vs part time mobility device users. It was not saying that one type of disability is 'worse' than another.
He was just trying to make a point that some people are not able to move out of their wheelchair at all, so would not be able to consider a transfer.
Other people are physically able to transfer from an ECV or wheelchair, and might be able to consider doing so.
Only the person using the wheelchair or ECV knows what their abilities are and whether or not this is a possibility for them.

Regarding the discussion about how many wheelchair/ECV spots there are in Lion King, I believe there could be as many as 16. And, according to the ADA guidelines, each accessible spot has to have at least one companion seat next to it.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

When people are saying that those with wheelchairs are Full-time handicapped and those in ECV's are Part time handicapped, then that is where it comes down to "Mine is worse than yours". My disability is no less than anyone else's it is just different. It shouldn't be if you are in a wheelchair then you are fulltime handicapped and because I am not in a wheelchair and use a ECV my disability is only part time. That is where I came up with that.

Take a breath. I think you felt wronged after misunderstanding what Bill was saying. Bill used the terms fulltime and parttime to illustrate usage of a mobility aid being parttime or fulltime as I read it. And yes, so do I. I've always done it, was a parttimer myself once before becoming a fulltimer. It says nothing about the disability itself, purely about the usage of a mobility aid.

Shoot me, but it tends to be the situation that those using an aid parttime have more options 'out' than those using that same aid fulltime, when it comes to mobility situations. Of course other factors can come into the total picture, like the formentioned bleacher benches. Having said all of that, the only thing that is being said is; "within ones own abilities, please consider those with different abilities and transfer if you are able to". That's not even close to playing the 'mine is worse'-card.


About FOTLK: it seems to depend on who's working the show. I've seen it 4 times by now -all during low crowd times- and each and every time the CM's would ask if somebody can transfer. Heck, even I have been asked if I can transfer out of my powerchair once which doesn't happen all that often at WDW. If the answer is yes; removing the wheelchair/ECV after the guest was seated. I've seen them bring back these aids after the show, but yes you will have to wait your turn and wait until the largest part of the crowd is out of there. Which is smart to do anyway when driving a motorized aid, we all know it takes close to nothing for another guest to jump in front of yourself. With the large crowd all trying to get out at the same time, hanging back a short time is a smart move.

I've also had it happens once that there appeared to be no more accessible spots left. We were still discussing where to go next when the CM came back to me; spot available. Turns out they were still letting guest(s) with ECV's enter. Counted the guest(s) as a spot filled. At the theater the transferquestion apparently was asked, a transfer was made an lo and behold; a spot opened up for me. Something we were very glad about, as I love FOTLK.

 

[roadtripper]

I've also had it happens once that there appeared to be no more accessible spots left. We were still discussing where to go next when the CM came back to me; spot available. Turns out they were still letting guest(s) with ECV's enter. Counted the guest(s) as a spot filled. At the theater the transferquestion apparently was asked, a transfer was made an lo and behold; a spot opened up for me. Something we were very glad about, as I love FOTLK.

I think this may have been happening when we were there last week, too-- as we were leaving, and DS was crying, a CM waved to my DH to call us over. I was too distraught to get what was happening, but they may have asked someone to move. At any rate, DS was too far gone to attempt it at that point (so was mom, truth be told).

Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies on this thread.

 

[peemagg]

So let me get this straght. You come on here asking that those of us in ECV's would move over so there would be a spot for your son and when someone does exactly that, you don't even take them up on it? I just find that wrong. You blame us for taking up a spot and when we do that for you you say no thanks, I don't want it now. How rude!

 

[SueM in MN]

I think this may have been happening when we were there last week, too-- as we were leaving, and DS was crying, a CM waved to my DH to call us over. I was too distraught to get what was happening, but they may have asked someone to move. At any rate, DS was too far gone to attempt it at that point (so was mom, truth be told).

Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies on this thread.

If the OP's DS was too upset at that point (she did say in the first post that he was crying), bringing him in at that point would not have been helpful to anyone. He would have been too upset to enjoy the show, which probably would have affected the ability of other guests around him to enjoy the show. AND, it is not an easy show to leave, so if he was too upset and needed to leave, it would have been more disruptive to other guests.

I don't think it was rude to not go in if a seat was available, under those circumstances. Perhaps if the OP had known that a seat opening up might have been available, they would have reacted differently. But, it sounds like their understanding was that no seats when they arrived meant no seats for the show. Period!

 

[KPeveler]

So let me get this straght. You come on here asking that those of us in ECV's would move over so there would be a spot for your son and when someone does exactly that, you don't even take them up on it? I just find that wrong. You blame us for taking up a spot and when we do that for you you say no thanks, I don't want it now. How rude!

Ok, I think you are overreacting a bit - I have had people move for me before, but I am often unable to take them up on it. Either I waited too long, had a bathroom emergency (all bathroom trips are emergency for me ), got too hot outside, was surrounded by so many people that all the noise would be too much...

The OP did not demand anything, a CM made the decision on their own or perhaps with her DH, who she said she could not hear, and was unable to take them up on the offer.

Why are you insisting on picking a fight? No one has suggested that there is a "better" or "bigger" or "lesser" disability. The OP has also thanked all us for the replies, and has clearly taken everything we said and is processing it. We have all put ideas out there, clarification was given when needed...

If you are still upset and offended, perhaps rather than call a mother of a disabled child who was very upset rude for not putting her child into a situation that would be too much for him, you could explain what still has you so upset and people could clarify their points?

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

So let me get this straght. You come on here asking that those of us in ECV's would move over so there would be a spot for your son and when someone does exactly that, you don't even take them up on it? I just find that wrong. You blame us for taking up a spot and when we do that for you you say no thanks, I don't want it now. How rude!

Ehm, what is the problem? It's starting to sound like you feel Roadtripper is wronging you.

DS in question apparently had a meltdown after being told there was no seat. To such an extend that going in and seeing the show apparently no longer was an option. Now explain this to me as if I were a toddler; how is that wrong and being rude? This is not a situation of the pot calling the kettle black.


Roadtripper, might be the case it happened the same for you guys. If meltdown is a known thing for DS, perhaps the next time you can send somebody to FOTLK to check for availability before actually going with DS and even informing him about seeing the show? Perhaps a little white lie about the person needing to use the bathroom? Perhaps they could signal you through a textmessage or something if there still is availability, so like "magic" you decide to check if there is a seat and lo and behold; DS can get in.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

I agree. It's so hard to know what you are going to face once you leave the ECV behind. We got to Nemo just as it was being seated, so no line. Parked my ECV out of the way and went in. The stairs were a little tricky, but DH helped so I was okay. But when we came out, we were completely on the opposite side. Thankfully, DH was with me and he ran over to where I had left it....but it wasn't there. Wasn't with the other wheeled things either. Finally found it way down the road parked in some stroller parking. I was exhausted just looking for the thing!
My daughter told someone that. Amongst the only time we were on a crowded bus. I didn't even know about it until we got to our resort and realized she was crying and furious. The kids got on the bus with me.(So, first of all in the line.) However, my two older ones (DD 13 and DS9) got up and gave their seats to others as the bus filled up. Some woman (yes, an adult) made a comment to DD about how it must be nice to get such special treatment just becuase their mom didn't feel like walking around the parks. DD said to her "You feel free to get on the bus first, but be prepared to also deal with always being tired and in pain and not knowing what might go wrong next because you don't really know what the MS is going to do. Oh, and you also have to wait until everyone is OFF the bus." Poor sweet girl. How appalling that someone would even think that way, let alone say it to a kid.

Your poor little girl. She was right, though.

And the Nemo people moved my mom's ECV, too. I hunted it down and went to pick her up. Someone actually commented on the "trading off" of the ECV.

 

[taximomfor4]

Something else Disney could do is do away with the first bench in each section and turn it into wheelchair and ECV parking. That would open up at least 6 more spots on each side, allowing at least 44 handicapped people to enjoy the show. As it is now that first row only the spots on either end are for wheelchair or scooter parking. The rest of the row is used by those with little children who want to get into the end of the show, and the occasional visual impaired person (I say occassional, because only occasionally would they be able to get to that bench due to the families with kids).

We get to FOTLK very very early, since dd needs the vision-impaired seating. We have small kids, and split the family up so that dh and the other kids sit 1-2 rows behind...And then we have tons of time to people watch. I've never seen them reserve the front bench for families with small kids hoping to be in the show. I HAVE seen them seat people from the general audience in those seats IF they are still empty as the show is about to start. Perhaps you've seen families like mine, with low-vision kids or whatever, being sat in the front bench, and assumed they were just put there because they have little kids?

I will say those benches are the reason we go to FOTLK. Without them, it would be time wasted out of our day.

That said, I really, really feel for those needing the very-limited wheelchair spots. Went with my mom once, in her ECV. She walked into the theater, to NOT take up a spot she didn't have to take up...but they definitely seem to need more spots!

 

[peemagg]

Yes I am offeneded by this thread. First the OP directs it only at ECV riders, because in her opinion they took all the places and because of that her son couldn't see the show. She did not aim it at anyone who can transfer, but at those of us who use an ECV. There was no thought that we may not be able to transfer to those benches anymore than someone who uses a wheelchair (except some of them are perfectly capable of transferring too). Then the rest of the truth comes out (she convienently left this fact of the story out until just lately) that she was actually given the chance because room was found for them.

What I found rude, was this whole post once the truth actually came out.

Yes I am angry over this thread and others like it that are out there making assumptions about ECV riders and their abillities and the bashing of us. I guess this thread just brought it all to a head. I am tired of being bashed because I and others have disabilities that may not be evident to most or because we aren't in a wheelchair permanently YET! It has been happening by those who are able bodied and our fellow wheeled travelers. It NEEDS TO STOP!

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm going to close this thread at this time. It appears to have gotten to point in the road that leads nowhere.
Later today I will write a summary and may open it again if it feels like things might cool off.

 

[roadtripper]

MODERATOR NOTE:
The OP had wanted to post this, but I had already closed the thread.
I am adding it here to kind of complete the loop.

Just about to post when Sue closed the thread, which is probably a good idea. However, I wanted to state that I did not find out that someone had tried to call us over until later; DS was crying and screaming, I was upset, DH motioned to me, and later told me that a CM had been calling him over--possibly to be seated; we didn't go, so we don't know. I think I wrote "apparently" in my followup post, which was not withholding the truth.

I probably SHOULD have said ECV/wheelchair users who are able to transfer in my title, and my intent was not to offend ECV users. There are some people who look to be offended, which is a sad way to live your life. What my experience was that day, which influenced my post, was that two other ECV users got up and walked through the regular queue as soon as they were told that the wheelchair spots were taken. They would have taken a wheelchair spot if available, which was my point. That was my experience; that was what I was writing about.

Thanks again to all those who offered helpful insight and experiences.