A Dream, A promise and a bust.. a lesson in autism

[Canadamomof3]

That's terrible that they didn't at least tell you in advance when you called I made a similar phone call today - my brother and my son are both autistic and my brother really wants to go to the teen club (he's 20). I was told that they are not bending the age restrictions at all due to legal reasons and that he can only come during the open house times (a few hours on the first day and there may possibly be a couple of other open houses during the cruise) and that one of us has to come with him (which will probably really annoy him because he's a university student a takes the bus alone, etc - he doesn't need to be babysat).

 

[AJKMOM]

That's terrible that they didn't at least tell you in advance when you called I made a similar phone call today - my brother and my son are both autistic and my brother really wants to go to the teen club (he's 20). I was told that they are not bending the age restrictions at all due to legal reasons and that he can only come during the open house times (a few hours on the first day and there may possibly be a couple of other open houses during the cruise) and that one of us has to come with him (which will probably really annoy him because he's a university student a takes the bus alone, etc - he doesn't need to be babysat).

Hopefully this means he will understand that he is too old to go in the teenage club? My son still thinks at age 23 he can go back to middle school. Ugh.

 

[robin09]

OP Here,

Off topic a little... I see alot of our kids dont' want to grow up (or can't) Is this something I need to adjust to? DD therapist did tell me that I have to adjust my thinking about her being able to be on her own when she grows up and that she will need a strong support system.

I guess I just thought she would outgrow this, umm, maybe not? I mean I can have such intelligent conversations with her, she's so bright... but then she can be soooo young and immature.

Still trying to get a grasp on this, you would think by the age of 13 I would understand my daughter, just having a hard time.. and thinkiing maybe my daughter will be a female version of Peter Pan.. and never grow up?

 

[robin09]

I'm very sorry this happened to your child. It's always hard when expectations are not met.

My understanding of those Clubs is that they are licensed as Day Care Centers; day care licenses do have age limits and can only care for kids within that range (I think those clubs are ages 3-10 years.)
They probably made some case by case exceptions before, and those exceptions may have still been made hen you asked. But, once here was a problem, they probably had to go back to strictly following the age limits or could put their day care license in jeopardy.

Glad to hear thT even though you/your daughter were disappointed, you were able to still enjoy the trip enough to go again - with different expectations. Hope hour net trips wonderful.

It's not that the expectations weren't met.. it's that the promises weren't kept. I could've dealt with this much easier had I known that she would be refused.

I always try to look at things at the bright side, and I try to teach my DD that, poop happens, just keep moving.. dwelling is never a good thing. Unfortunately, my DD has a long memory and reminds me each time of something I forgot... the time that She couldn't get a picture with a fairy, or that they forgot to give her a cookie... I just look at her amazed at the stuff that's in her head...

And yes, we will enjoy our next trip, already making our plans, as always, work out the kinks that might be there...

 

[AJKMOM]

OP Here,

Off topic a little... I see alot of our kids dont' want to grow up (or can't) Is this something I need to adjust to? DD therapist did tell me that I have to adjust my thinking about her being able to be on her own when she grows up and that she will need a strong support system.

I guess I just thought she would outgrow this, umm, maybe not? I mean I can have such intelligent conversations with her, she's so bright... but then she can be soooo young and immature.

Still trying to get a grasp on this, you would think by the age of 13 I would understand my daughter, just having a hard time.. and thinkiing maybe my daughter will be a female version of Peter Pan.. and never grow up?

Autism is called a spectrum disorder, and in 20+ years of interacting with my son and plenty of others while volunteering, I see where it comes from. All you can do is hope, try, but not be disappointed if she says a mental age much younger than her chronological one. My son will always be Peter Pan, probably why we go to Disney every year.

 

[kylmac]

We have been on 8 Disney cruises and our son is autistic. I want to cry when I think that when he turns 11 he will not be able to go to the "kids clubs" that he is used to. I don't know how he will react going to the 11-13 club. Hopefully they will have a Wii. He basically likes to color and draw. We caught him with a dress on one trip and my husband freaked out-the cast members said at least every cruise they have had a boy dress up in the princess costumes-still did not really help. It is hard when they look like teenagers, however they do not act like them. I feel for you and feel that you should have been allowed to bring her in-I see Disney's point of view as well. I am sorry that the whole situation turned out the way it did. Like you said maybe next cruise with enough planning she understands the rules and accepts them. Our son does much better as long as he is told about it.
Take care-Elizabeth

 

[SueM in MN]

It's not that the expectations weren't met.. it's that the promises weren't kept. I could've dealt with this much easier had I known that she would be refused.

I always try to look at things at the bright side, and I try to teach my DD that, poop happens, just keep moving.. dwelling is never a good thing. Unfortunately, my DD has a long memory and reminds me each time of something I forgot... the time that She couldn't get a picture with a fairy, or that they forgot to give her a cookie... I just look at her amazed at the stuff that's in her head...

And yes, we will enjoy our next trip, already making our plans, as always, work out the kinks that might be there...

I meant the same thing as you did.
You expected certain things, based on what you were told/promised.

I meant it to say that your DD had plans & expectations, based on what you were told and that it was sad that what you were told to expect did not happen.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

They should not have promised you what they could not legally deliver. That is what happened. They promised you something that rules changed on. They continued to give you that same promise and either didn't realize they couldn't make good on it, or just poor communications, either way, legally they weren't able to do so. I am sorry you had to deal with this. If you knew ahead of time that your DD wasn't going to be able to attend these, you could have prep'ed her for it. You could have sat with her and decided what you guys would do "together" while on board.
There isn't much Disney could have done, about making an exception but they could have just been upfront with it. I would write to them and just explain that end of it.

 

[robin09]

They should not have promised you what they could not legally deliver. That is what happened. They promised you something that rules changed on. They continued to give you that same promise and either didn't realize they couldn't make good on it, or just poor communications, either way, legally they weren't able to do so. I am sorry you had to deal with this. If you knew ahead of time that your DD wasn't going to be able to attend these, you could have prep'ed her for it. You could have sat with her and decided what you guys would do "together" while on board.
There isn't much Disney could have done, about making an exception but they could have just been upfront with it. I would write to them and just explain that end of it.

You summed it up much better than I!

Exactly my point. DD is very agreeable as long as she knows what is expected... She'd be upset not being allowed in, but wouldn't have a meltdown. Her tears kill me, because she rarely if ever cries. If I had known that they wouldn't honor the promise, we all would have been prepared.

I am writing to them, because, honestly this shouldn't happen to any child, let alone one on the spectrum who deals with disappointments daily... they never fit in, and here in Disney they should....

Thnakyou for understanding

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Nothing hurts any child more than a false promise... That is how they learn to mistrust others. I would be sure to add that in my letter. It would have taken only a few words such as.. "sorry, our age limit has changed and your daughter is now too old for our program" simple as that. No harm would have been done. By not saying them, great harm was done to her. Sometimes people do not stop to think of the ramifications their actions have on children (any child, disabled or not)

 

[Mama Who]

I'm so sorry. That seems like a ridiculous adherence to a rule. I understand why they can't let delayed adults into those areas but a 13 year old? What's the age cap? It seems like a child would be no problem, even if she is a little older than expected.

I also think the comment to other patrons about not letting their kids in until yours was gone was pretty lousy. There are better ways to say that. "This room is closed for a private event" tells them to go to the other room without making you and your DD sound/feel like pariahs. If they insist on segregating your daughter, at least let her feel like a VIP, not a problem.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I'm so sorry. That seems like a ridiculous adherence to a rule. I understand why they can't let delayed adults into those areas but a 13 year old? What's the age cap? It seems like a child would be no problem, even if she is a little older than expected.

There has to be a set cut off. Say if Disney allowed her DD in @13, but not another in @14. That parent is going to say, "but you allowed a 13 year old, what is the difference?" If you don't stick to your age cap, you will have a problem because there will always be someone trying to challenge what you did for prior but won't do for them. There is an age limit and they must adhere to it, it is a simple as that. They were totally wrong for leading her on stating that her DD could attend though. They should have just been upfront with her prior to going on the cruise (such as when the age limit changed).

When you look at it, it is almost like saying: a child's ticket for the world is for ages 3-9, but my child is only 10, what is the big deal, why can't you charge me the child's price? see what I am saying? There are cut off's and they are there for reasons. What they are, we don't know, only those who place them there do. We aren't to question, but to adhere to them....

 

[Mrsjvb]

Nothing hurts any child more than a false promise... That is how they learn to mistrust others.

umm no. this is how they learn that life sucks and is in no way whatsoever fair. it is how they are taught to handle such unfairness that separates the well adjusted from the social misfits.. Spectrum or otherwise.

maybe Mom should never have made the promise in the first place.

okay, so she thought it was a done deal and there wasn't going to be an issue. she found out the hard way that that was not the case. but knowing how her child deals with disappointment would it not have been smarter to err on the side of caution and not hype it up in the first place?

 

[Mrsjvb]

I'm so sorry. That seems like a ridiculous adherence to a rule. I understand why they can't let delayed adults into those areas but a 13 year old? What's the age cap? It seems like a child would be no problem, even if she is a little older than expected.

Think its 11 for this particular club. and like has been stated if you make an exception for one due to 'handicap' then the next time how can you turn away someone NOT on the Spectrum but is also too old?

and how are the CM supposed to determine the child's mental age anyway? sure as heck can't depend on the parent to be completely honest.. one will lie and say oh she's 12 mentally but is really about 6 or the one that says oh he's 6 inside but is really more like 13 complete with hormones. and by law they cannot ask for proof.

so therefore, they must draw the line somewhere.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

umm no. this is how they learn that life sucks and is in no way whatsoever fair. it is how they are taught to handle such unfairness that separates the well adjusted from the social misfits.. Spectrum or otherwise.

maybe Mom should never have made the promise in the first place.

okay, so she thought it was a done deal and there wasn't going to be an issue. she found out the hard way that that was not the case. but knowing how her child deals with disappointment would it not have been smarter to err on the side of caution and not hype it up in the first place?

Mom make the promise? Did you not read who made the promise, Disney Cruise Lines and the Travel Agent did. Mom was going by what they told her. Not sure how much you know about broken promises but that is a way for children to learn not to trust others. When a person says something and does another, that "teaches" mistrust. No one is saying that life is fair, but have you ever wondered why there is so much mistrust in some children It is not instinct but a learned behavior.

Yes, sometimes life does suck, but broken promises are not the way to "teach" a child that there are disappointments in life. There are many other ways that children learn about disappointments, such as not attaining a goal, not getting something "you wanted" and I certainly do not mean by a broken promise, but because it wasn't available. Yes, broken promises most certainly does teach mistrust.. do it enough to a child and they will not trust adults. That mistrust follows through into adulthood.. do some research then tell me I am wrong...

 

[Mrsjvb]

Mom make the promise? Did you not read who made the promise, Disney Cruise Lines and the Travel Agent did. Mom was going by what they told her.

' at what point did the child EVER speak direct to Disney or the TA? My bet is NEVER.. which means MOM made the promise on their behalf. Right or wrong. ultimately only the OP can determine whether or not in retrospect she should ever have said anything to the child . I know my SiL NEVER tells their Son anything that if he should get too attached to the concept and it fails to materialize would lead to a melt down. of course this has a lot to do with the fact that his meltdown have landed her in the hospital with concussions and worse as he outweighs her by a great deal. self preservation.

Children are not delicate critters that shatter emotionally every time they don't get their way or are denied something. a broken promise is not going to scar a child for life or make them mistrust adults.

abuse by some one they have been told was supposed to take care of them leads to mistrust. being promised they participate in a club but later not being able to does not. what would have been the response if the club was closed because of something? maybe a kid gets sick so they have to shut it down to clean the place up just when the little girl wanted to go? how is that going to shatter her belief in adults?

 

[robin09]

umm no. this is how they learn that life sucks and is in no way whatsoever fair. it is how they are taught to handle such unfairness that separates the well adjusted from the social misfits.. Spectrum or otherwise.

maybe Mom should never have made the promise in the first place.

okay, so she thought it was a done deal and there wasn't going to be an issue. she found out the hard way that that was not the case. but knowing how her child deals with disappointment would it not have been smarter to err on the side of caution and not hype it up in the first place?

OP here... a little harsh no? And do I really want to teach my child that life sucks and is no way whatsoever fair? NO, I want to teach her to make lemonade. She learns that life sucks everyday, when noone wants her to sit near them in the lunchroom.

For 4 nights, I wanted magic for this special child. And for 16 months I questioned if she'd be allow to have her dream. And we did have a good time anyway, and made our lemonade... It would've been better though if the disappointment wasn't there.... So thankyou for your support

 

[robin09]

' at what point did the child EVER speak direct to Disney or the TA? My bet is NEVER.. which means MOM made the promise on their behalf. Right or wrong. ultimately only the OP can determine whether or not in retrospect she should ever have said anything to the child . I know my SiL NEVER tells their Son anything that if he should get too attached to the concept and it fails to materialize would lead to a melt down. of course this has a lot to do with the fact that his meltdown have landed her in the hospital with concussions and worse as he outweighs her by a great deal. self preservation.

Children are not delicate critters that shatter emotionally every time they don't get their way or are denied something. a broken promise is not going to scar a child for life or make them mistrust adults.

abuse by some one they have been told was supposed to take care of them leads to mistrust. being promised they participate in a club but later not being able to does not. what would have been the response if the club was closed because of something? maybe a kid gets sick so they have to shut it down to clean the place up just when the little girl wanted to go? how is that going to shatter her belief in adults?

In fact my travel agent did speak to My DD and tell her the wonderful time she would have at the club. This was unforeseen. I don't understand how you choose to go on downgrading MOTHER.... This was about a promise that was made by Disney, that was broken.. and taken care of by MOTHER...

It was a letter written so others know what to expect so others don't have this happen to them.

Being that you have a nephew that does have meltdowns, I'd think you would prefer to have a warning...

End of Conversation... Have a great day

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I know my SiL NEVER tells their Son anything that if he should get too attached to the concept and it fails to materialize would lead to a melt down. of course this has a lot to do with the fact that his meltdown have landed her in the hospital with concussions and worse as he outweighs her by a great deal. self preservation.

Children are not delicate critters that shatter emotionally every time they don't get their way or are denied something. a broken promise is not going to scar a child for life or make them mistrust adults.

Which is it.. they aren't delicate "critters" that will shatter when they don't get their way.. or don't tell them You have 2 contradicting statements in one post... What is good for one is good for another, which is it? don't tell or they don't shatter?

just an fyi.. size really doesn't matter when the child is having a violent meltdown. I have worked with various age children with and without emotional disabilities. Let me tell you, I have seen 45-60lb children throw computers, desks, you name it.. once that violent rage starts, there is no size matters anymore. On the same token, I have seen very large children never express any violence when having a meltdown, only tears.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

OP: Once again, I am sorry your DD and you had to deal with this. I would be sure to also write to the TA. I would explain how a few simple words ended up being a let down for your DD. Let them know that maybe in the future, they may want to be extremely sure on their facts prior to giving them to their customers. Also let them know that you still indeed did have a good time. When ever there is a letter with a concern in it, I always try to put in a positive too! Doing that sometimes helps to balance out what I am trying to say and they seem to listen more that way. Instead of the whiner and complainer, it is really a letter from a person with a "concern". Good Luck in your letter writing and please let us know what type of response you end up getting from both the TA and the Disney Cruise Lines.