A comment about moore's bad editing in F 9/11

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by The Edge
Yeah, I knew that. Bush still could have said "Excuse me" and had a conference with the SS. He is the man in charge. Or is it the SS?

actually in that situation, he can say he wants to leave ,,but it's the secret service's responsibility to take him when they feel it's safe to do so..

 

[N.Bailey]

Originally posted by Jimbo
Well, that's just great. Now I've got a picture in my head of MM with no clothes. Thank you very much.

I'm so far behind in this thread and trying desperately to catch up, but I couldn't resist replying to this comment.

 

[MossMan]

I’ve seen F 9/11 and posted a review on this site. In that review I was pretty clear about how much I disliked the movie. I felt it was a superficial rehash of very complex issues. I wrote that Moore essentially talks down to his audience. And by the end of the film I was weary of Moore’s shallow heavy handedness. I wasn’t that crazy about his last movie – but unlike F 9/11 at least Bowling For Columbine makes an attempt to examine different aspects of the issues at hand.

Having said that though, the video of the 7 minutes in question is the only illuminating thing about F 9/11. Even though the rest of the movie oscillates between shallow contempt and outright unfairness, the ramifications of those 7 minutes are pretty much inescapable.

Bush is the Commander in Chief and his country was under attack. Forget about what has happened since then – at that point in time the only thing you had to know was that our CIC knew the country had been attacked. Before we knew the breadth and extent of the attack, the only thing of any importance was that our leader was aware that the country he had pledged to protect was under attack from forces unknown.

And his reaction strongly suggests that Bush simply was not immediately ready for that responsibility. Knowing we were under attack, he should have politely excused himself and rounded up his advisors and gotten himself atop the situation. Instead he sat there not knowing what to do, looking for the world as if he was waiting for someone to tell him what to do.

Does this disqualify him from the presidency? Not in my opinion it doesn’t. In fact if the same sort of situation were ever to occur again I think Bush experience on 9/11 will help him be more ready with an appropriate response. But there is no getting away that he dropped the ball for a little while on September morning back in 2001.

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by The Edge
Of course they wouldn't have names available, but a televised message to the entire country would be needed. I'd get working on that.

And that is EXACTLY what he did...he gave a speech at 9:30a from the school right before he left it to the Nation. I found this info at more than one website.

White House Website

Remarks by the President After Two Planes Crash Into World Trade Center
Emma Booker Elementary School
Sarasota, Florida

9:30 A.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a difficult moment for America. I, unfortunately, will be going back to Washington after my remarks. Secretary Rod Paige and the Lt. Governor will take the podium and discuss education. I do want to thank the folks here at Booker Elementary School for their hospitality.

Today we've had a national tragedy. Two airplanes have crashed into the World Trade Center in an apparent terrorist attack on our country. I have spoken to the Vice President, to the Governor of New York, to the Director of the FBI, and have ordered that the full resources of the federal government go to help the victims and their families, and to conduct a full-scale investigation to hunt down and to find those folks who committed this act.

Terrorism against our nation will not stand.

And now if you would join me in a moment of silence. May God bless the victims, their families, and America. Thank you very much.

END 9:31 A.M. EDT

 

[beattyfamily]

Originally posted by The Edge
He wouldn't have to address them immediately, but he sure as heck should PREPARE to do so. Or tell one of his people to write him up a good speech or something.

He did! at 9:30a on 9/11 he gave a speech to the Nation from that school.

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by MossMan
I’ve seen F 9/11 and posted a review on this site. In that review I was pretty clear about how much I disliked the movie. I felt it was a superficial rehash of very complex issues. I wrote that Moore essentially talks down to his audience. And by the end of the film I was weary of Moore’s shallow heavy handedness. I wasn’t that crazy about his last movie – but unlike F 9/11 at least Bowling For Columbine makes an attempt to examine different aspects of the issues at hand.

Having said that though, the video of the 7 minutes in question is the only illuminating thing about F 9/11. Even though the rest of the movie oscillates between shallow contempt and outright unfairness, the ramifications of those 7 minutes are pretty much inescapable.

Bush is the Commander in Chief and his country was under attack. Forget about what has happened since then – at that point in time the only thing you had to know was that our CIC knew the country had been attacked. Before we knew the breadth and extent of the attack, the only thing of any importance was that our leader was aware that the country he had pledged to protect was under attack from forces unknown.

And his reaction strongly suggests that Bush simply was not immediately ready for that responsibility. Knowing we were under attack, he should have politely excused himself and rounded up his advisors and gotten himself atop the situation. Instead he sat there not knowing what to do, looking for the world as if he was waiting for someone to tell him what to do.

Does this disqualify him from the presidency? Not in my opinion it doesn’t. In fact if the same sort of situation were ever to occur again I think Bush experience on 9/11 will help him be more ready with an appropriate response. But there is no getting away that he dropped the ball for a little while on September morning back in 2001.

how can you factually state that he sat there not knowing what to do..that's speculation...we don't know exactly what was said in the phone call before he entered the classroom..
odds are he was briefed with the knowledge at that time, and told that they'd update him as soon as they had anything solid to go on..

the possibility exists, that he was told to sit tight by Condoleeza Rice...one thing is certain..if they had any clue we were being attacked the last thing the secret service would have done was take him out of that school hastily..


and to be fair..I don't think anyone would have been instantly prepared in that situation..it was soemthing that was simply unheard of...something that would NEVER happen in the USA..


it was so unexpected that the air trafic controllers were shocked, and confused.... as for the people who thought the pentagon could have been saved.. I saw an interview with the ATC's that were watching that airliner..it appeared to be headed towards the capitol,,then turned away...they then thought it was military aircraft protecting DC....then it suddenly turned and headed for the Pentagon..hitting before they could do anything...

 

[MICKEY88]

double post.

 

[jrydberg]

But there is no getting away that he dropped the ball for a little while on September morning back in 2001.

Michael Moore's movie notwithstanding, all the data I've seen suggest that the American public (not to mention a bipartisan commission formed specifically to look at such issues) largely disagrees with that conclusion.

 

[poohandwendy]

But there is no getting away that he dropped the ball for a little while on September morning back in 2001.

in your opinion, of course....you can't hardly state that as fact...

 

[MossMan]

Originally posted by MICKEY88
....
the possibility exists, that he was told to sit tight by Condoleeza Rice...one thing is certain..if they had any clue we were being attacked the last thing the secret service would have done was take him out of that school hastily..

Exactly my point. Instead of taking charge of the situation himself, it looks as if Bush was letting other people call the shots. I just happen to believe that in situations like the one faced on 9/11, our President should be the one making the calls. Or at least attempting to do so.

Originally posted by MICKEY88
....
and to be fair..I don't think anyone would have been instantly prepared in that situation..it was soemthing that was simply unheard of...something that would NEVER happen in the USA..

I expect more out of our President. You take the job of Commander in Chief then you have to be prepared. I pretty sure I wouldn’t have been prepared. But then I’m quite certain that I’m not up to that particular job.

Do you really believe Reagan would have reacted in the same way? Not on your life. But then asking Bush to live up to Reagan is asking quite a bit. So how about we use someone else as an example, someone not quite the character of Reagan. What do you suppose Carter does learning that his country is under attack? Sit there dumbly wondering what to do, waiting for others to tell him where to stand? I don’t think so.

 

[MossMan]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
in your opinion, of course....you can't hardly state that as fact...

It’s my opinion that Moore is a lousy film maker. It is also my opinion that F 9/11 is almost entirely unfair.

But it is a fact that our Commander in Chief chose to do nothing for crucial minutes after learning that country he is sworn to protect was under attack.

Your opinion may be that this behavior represents a strength of character. I happen to be of the opinion that Bush lost if for a little while.

 

[poohandwendy]

But it is a fact that our Commander in Chief chose to do nothing for crucial minutes after learning that country he is sworn to protect was under attack.

It is nothing of the sort. It is supposition. It is a fact that he remained at the school, it is a fact that he read a story to the kids. It is not a fact that he chose to do nothing for crucial minutes. Unless you were there, you cannot say what happened or what was said between Bush and his staff. Or what he had going on behind the scenes.

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by MossMan
Exactly my point. Instead of taking charge of the situation himself, it looks as if Bush was letting other people call the shots. I just happen to believe that in situations like the one faced on 9/11, our President should be the one making the calls. Or at least attempting to do so.


I expect more out of our President. You take the job of Commander in Chief then you have to be prepared. I pretty sure I wouldn’t have been prepared. But then I’m quite certain that I’m not up to that particular job.

Do you really believe Reagan would have reacted in the same way? Not on your life. But then asking Bush to live up to Reagan is asking quite a bit. So how about we use someone else as an example, someone not quite the character of Reagan. What do you suppose Carter does learning that his country is under attack? Sit there dumbly wondering what to do, waiting for others to tell him where to stand? I don’t think so.

the title. national security advisor means what it implies,,she advises,,,he follows her ecomendation or he doesn't his call...but....the president has no choice but to listen to the secret service..he is their responsibility

again..pure speculation that bush sat there dumbly wandering what to do....... as a true leader, not micromanager..he trusted his staff to gather the facts, and he trusted the secret service to do exactly what they are trained to do in a crisis situation..... the same peope who on another thread bash bush for being proactive on Iraq, bash him for being calm and patient on 9/11

what would Carter have done...you really want to ask that.... what did he do with the Iran hostage crisis...it was his inactivity on that issue that helped strengthen, terrorist boldness.....had he acted swiftly the world might be different today....or should we talk about the panic when Carter was attacked by a rabbit...LOL

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by MossMan

Your opinion may be that this behavior represents a strength of character. I happen to be of the opinion that Bush lost if for a little while.

he spoke to Condoleeza Rice, he then went on with the planned visit, entrusting his well traiend staff to do their jobs and notify him as needed, rather than losing control and running out of the school..... when exactly did he lose it...

are you aware that there are specific procedures to be followed in the event of a national crisis/ or event//part of which is letting the secret service control travel of the president and the vice president....

 

[kbeverina]

MossMan--do you recall approximately how many minutes of the 7 minutes Moore showed in the film?

 

[MossMan]

Originally posted by MICKEY88


are you aware that there are specific procedures to be followed in the event of a national crisis..

I had to look them up:

1. Ignore national crisis, might go away.
2. Wait for someone else to take the first step.
3. If Secret Service man tells you to read book to little children, don’t argue.
4. Have someone phone Karl, he’ll know what to do.
5. If in possible danger, stay as close to little children as possible.
6. Might as well relax, Dick’s going to make all the decisions anyway.

There might be more but I think they’re classified.

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by MossMan
I had to look them up:

1. Ignore national crisis, might go away.
2. Wait for someone else to take the first step.
3. If Secret Service man tells you to read book to little children, don’t argue.
4. Have someone phone Karl, he’ll know what to do.
5. If in possible danger, stay as close to little children as possible.
6. Might as well relax, Dick’s going to make all the decisions anyway.

There might be more but I think they’re classified.

Oh....You looked in Michael Moore's "History Rewritten"

try reading this instead..events of 9/11

 

[poohandwendy]

Do you really believe Reagan would have reacted in the same way? Not on your life. But then asking Bush to live up to Reagan is asking quite a bit. So how about we use someone else as an example, someone not quite the character of Reagan. What do you suppose Carter does learning that his country is under attack? Sit there dumbly wondering what to do, waiting for others to tell him where to stand? I don’t think so.

My BIL worked under Reagan (and senior Bush) with White House Communications and then the Secret Service (currently the FBI). Almost everything done regarding national and presidential security is done behind the scenes, following protocol is critical sothat all teams can be in the right place at the right time. It is part of the Presidents JOB to make it all appear unhurried and calm. I can't imagine those 7 minutes would have been much different with Reagan, Carter, Gore or Kerry. It just isn't as simple as people here seem to think.

I think some people here have watched too many movies like Independence Day...

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
My BIL worked under Reagan (and senior Bush) with White House Communications and then the Secret Service (currently the FBI). Almost everything done regarding national and presidential security is done behind the scenes, following protocol is critical sothat all teams can be in the right place at the right time. It is part of the Presidents JOB to make it all appear unhurried and calm. I can't imagine those 7 minutes would have been much different with Reagan, Carter, Gore or Kerry. It just isn't as simple as people here seem to think.

I think some people here have watched too many movies like Independence Day...

I agree... protocol must be followed....if the president tries to break protocol, he is quickly reminded , who is in charge of his safety...

 

[Nancy]

Originally posted by acepepper
I haven't read all of this thread, so this may have already been addressed but this is just ridiculous. Nobody said that Bush should have jumped up and run around like a headless chicken, barging his way past kids and teachers and shouting, "god help us, we're all gonna die!". As soon as his aid had told him that America was under attack, he should have calmly said something like, "Thank you for welcoming me to your school but I'm afraid I have to leave a little earlier than planned. Being President is a very busy job and sometimes things happen that you weren't expecting, so I have to leave now but I promise to come back and hear you all read as soon as I can." That would've taken about 10 seconds.

Not difficult really, is it?

My original quote was something that if my small child was in that room she would have been upset and would have wanted me there. There was stuff before and after that...this thread is too long to go back and find it now.

That response was taken a bit out of context in the quote. The original response was to the original post that said he should have asked the room to say a prayer and if he had done that he would have had to explain why he wanted the prayer. (because we all know that you can't pray in school) That might have caused some small children to panic....7 aand 8 years old are not that grown up. If they were told a plane hit the WTC in NYC they might have thought they were next. (I know it's a bit of a stretch...NY is along way from Florida....but I have talked to people that think I can drive from Buffalo to NYC for a night of fun)


This thread has grown and it's taking me along time to read everything since I went to work this morning.

I'm going to try to put this in a common working man position. I am a store trainer. I know our register system backwards and forwards. If there is a problem they call me. If I'm in a class teaching I don't immediatley run and fix the problem...I let others try to correct it first. If what they do isn't working and registers start to crash and customers start to complain and crab and moan...then they call me again to get down there and try to resolve the situation. Only then do i move faat to get out to the registers and see what is going on. I rely on those workers that are on the floor doing their jobs to relay the imformation to me.
I know it's not the same as running a country I'm just trying to show that I rely on a support staff (just as Bush does) that knows their job and does it. they call me and let me know what's going on and they keep me informed.

And I also want to let you know....I am noot a connservative, a republican or democrat. I have no party offiliation or loyalties. I did not vote for Bush. Have no clue who to vote for this time around. I just said to DH the other day..."what do you do when you don't want either person in there)