A comment about moore's bad editing in F 9/11

[jrydberg]

Originally posted by JKanownik
The 9/11 commission was concerned with what ACTUALLY happened, not with what COULD have happened. There is a huge distinction to be made there. Given the events that unfolded there was nothing Bush could have done in those 7 minutes to change what happened. However, all Bush had been told by Card was something along the lines of "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack." Given what could have possibly unfolded (which is of no consequence to the 9/11 commission) with only that information, that is where everyone has a problem with Bush's actions.

-Josh

That's not entirely correct. The 9/11 commission is concerned with what actually happened and whether any specific response to those attacks could have been better. Its purpose is precisely to analyze this sort of thing.

 

[The Edge]

To NYers it certainly is the major city in the USA, but I'm not convinced that the rest of the country feels the same way

Well, I don't live in NYC, but I think NYC is a pretty darn important city in our country. Not that any citizens are more important than the others. Why did the terrorists pick NYC?

And they would have had a list of those families available at their fingertips for the President to contact them right away? I highly doubt it.

Of course they wouldn't have names available, but a televised message to the entire country would be needed. I'd get working on that.

Why would he make an accidental crash at the WTC a priority over anything else

You're so right. An accidental crash into the WTC in the 9:00 hour is no big deal. Continue on with your day as normal.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by The Edge
What would I do if I were president? I guess I'd probably say, "Excuse me." to the children, even if I thought the first crash was an accident. NYC is probably considered the major city in the USA. A plane crashing into the WTC would most likely lead to many deaths. I'd want to express my condolences to the families involved ASAP. Lots of people here are acting like an accident crash at the WTC is not Bush's responsibility. No, he's not NYC mayor or NY state govenor, but I do think he as an obligation to make a crash at the WTC a priority over reading to the school children. He could have rescheduled his school visit. Could have made it up during one of his ranch retreat days.

No, an accidental plane crash is not the president's responsibilty, no matter what building is may crash in to. After the second plane crashed, yes something was definately up. But still, what difference would 7 minutes have made?

So, should we fault past Presidents for not excusing themselves from their scheduled engagements every time there is a plane crash?

Again, we are all basing this on what we now know today, not what we did or didn't know in the morning of 9/11. How easy is that to do?

In retrospect Clinton should have taken Syria up on their offer to hand over bin Laden, but he didn't.

Should we criticize Truman for not being immediately notified when a B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire State Building in 1945? Afterall, it was a bomber for God's sake! Who knows what we could have been dealing with?

 

[dmadman43]

Of course they wouldn't have names available, but a televised message to the entire country would be needed. I'd get working on that.

Let's see. The country is under attack. Who know's who they are coming after? Do they know the President's location? Dunno. But, let's first get all the logistics set up so the President can go on TV and speak to the nation at 9:30 and say.....what? Let's wait around here in a very secure elementary school building while we wait for cameras to be set up so the President can speak to a nation and tell us we have no idea what the hell we are dealing with at the moment. Great idea!!

You do recall the President did eventually speak to the nation that evening, right?

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by dmadman43
.
Should we criticize Truman for not being immediately notified when a B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire State Building in 1945? Afterall, it was a bomber for God's sake! Who knows what we could have been dealing with?

Can't compare a 1945 reaction to a 2001 reaction. Technology has improved our radar systems.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by The Edge

You're so right. An accidental crash into the WTC in the 9:00 hour is no big deal. Continue on with your day as normal.

I'm sorry, but where did I say that it was no big deal...you might want to roll your eyes back into place so that you can read what I actually wrote.

A big deal? Sure. A crisis that demands immediate Presidential attention? That's simply ludicrous.

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Let's see. The country is under attack. Who know's who they are coming after? Do they know the President's location? Dunno. But, let's first get all the logistics set up so the President can go on TV and speak to the nation at 9:30 and say.....what? Let's wait around here in a very secure elementary school building while we wait for cameras to be set up so the President can speak to a nation and tell us we have no idea what the hell we are dealing with at the moment. Great idea!!

Wait a minute! You are stating that the president knew we were under attack! I thought he didn't know that after the first plane hit. Or did he? HMMMMMMM. My response was what I would do if there was an accident crash at the WTC. Now if he knew we were under attack then he DEFINITELY needed to get the heck out of there. For his safety and the safety of the children. A calm and cool "poker face" exit would suffice.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by The Edge
Can't compare a 1945 reaction to a 2001 reaction. Technology has improved our radar systems.

Nevertheless, a plane crash is a plane crash. And Truman was not immediately notified? Why not?

 

[MICKEY88]

Originally posted by The Edge
Wait a minute! You are stating that the president knew we were under attack! I thought he didn't know that after the first plane hit. Or did he? HMMMMMMM. My response was what I would do if there was an accident crash at the WTC.

early reports still weren't sure if it was a private or commercial aircraft, therefore Bush had no idea of the magnitude of the event, so how could he have adressed the nation at that early hour..

 

[The Edge]

He wouldn't have to address them immediately, but he sure as heck should PREPARE to do so. Or tell one of his people to write him up a good speech or something.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by The Edge
Wait a minute! You are stating that the president knew we were under attack! I thought he didn't know that after the first plane hit. Or did he? HMMMMMMM. My response was what I would do if there was an accident crash at the WTC. Now if he knew we were under attack then he DEFINITELY needed to get the heck out of there. For his safety and the safety of the children. A calm and cool "poker face" exit would suffice.

In case you haven't been paying attention, I believe we are dealing with the time period after Card informed him of the SECOND plane crash and said "the nation is under attack".

And it's the SS responsibilty to get him out of there, not his. And it's not just a matter of tossing him into a car and driving off. But, of course, you knew that.

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by dmadman43
Nevertheless, a plane crash is a plane crash. And Truman was not immediately notified? Why not?

How should I know? Bush was notified of the plane crash so Truman has nothing to do with this.

 

[LScot]

Personally, I think the President who never did anything about terrorism was Bill Clinton.

Bush may or may not have let 7 minutes lapsed but he sure as hell has tried to fight it since. President Clinton never did anything except ignore it.

After the 7 minutes, President Bush has practically done nothing but react and he is still damnd--he's damned is he does and he's damned if he doesn't. There is no pleasing the people who don't like him.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by The Edge
He wouldn't have to address them immediately, but he sure as heck should PREPARE to do so. Or tell one of his people to write him up a good speech or something.

And that's what ended up happening. Don't you recall?

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by The Edge
How should I know? Bush was notified of the plane crash so Truman has nothing to do with this.

You're the one that brought up the issue of plane crashes into building in NYC being of national signifigance.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by The Edge
He wouldn't have to address them immediately, but he sure as heck should PREPARE to do so. Or tell one of his people to write him up a good speech or something.

OK, so let's check your little scenario.

The President is told that a plane has crashed into the WTC, and you are upset that he continued into the class. Yet, you say that he should had his people write up a "good speech or something". And you know that this wasn't happening while he was in the classroom because...?

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by dmadman43

And it's the SS responsibilty to get him out of there, not his. And it's not just a matter of tossing him into a car and driving off. But, of course, you knew that.

Yeah, I knew that. Bush still could have said "Excuse me" and had a conference with the SS. He is the man in charge. Or is it the SS?

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by dmadman43
And that's what ended up happening. Don't you recall?

I certainly recall it. But I think that The Edge would have preferred that the President stand there while the writers came up with something for him to say about the national emergency involving an apparent (at that time) accidental plane crash.

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
OK, so let's check your little scenario.

The President is told that a plane has crashed into the WTC, and you are upset that he continued into the class. Yet, you say that he should had his people write up a "good speech or something". And you know that this wasn't happening while he was in the classroom because...?

Who knows? If it was happening, it was due to Bush's "people". Bush, himself, is utterly clueless. Just look at him in that video. That is not a "poker face". That is one confused, scared man. Yes, we were all confused and scared. However, I want my leader to be a take charge guy. Get up. See what the hell's going on in my country. Story time can wait!

 

[The Edge]

Originally posted by dmadman43
You're the one that brought up the issue of plane crashes into building in NYC being of national signifigance.

It is. It also has nothing to do W/Truman. BUSH WAS NOTIFIED.