a change I wish I could make

[slzer0]

Well, first of all, it is not my choice not to have a textbook. I have to use what I am given-- a textbook is not one of resources. I wish I had one.

Second, I have no problem giving my lesson plans to parents. In fact, I give a comprehensive syllabus to every student. If you feel guilty for taking them out, that is on you. I simply provide the information. It's your call to make as it should be. However, please don't bury your head in the sand that we won't be learning new concepts that you might not be able to fully teach to the level required on their assessments.

Thrid, you have kind of proved my point with the question above. Being able to graph a system of linear inequality is a required skill tested on standardized testing. There isn't "another way to solve it." Either you can read and interpret it or you can't. My point is that parents do have their limitations-- I'm a specialist in my field, and they are a specialist in theirs. I don't expect them to know all of the concepts we teach. I'm not saying parents CAN'T learn it, but the majority of parents I know do not how to solve these problems because it has been so long since they have had to do anything like that. Parents take them out for a week and then get mad when their student doesn't understand. It happens all the time. I do the right thing and tutor them after hours, but please understand that if every student did that, it would be bad.

Fourth, I am paid for 180 days that is stretched over 365. I know you may not think there is a distinction there, but I assure you that my hourly rate for sick time says other wise.

Yes there is one way to solve the question for a standardized test. But the same answer can be arrived at in many ways as a LIFE SKILL.
Not everyone thinks of learning in terms of standardized testing.

 

[slzer0]

Let me know how that works out for the next time a cop pulls you over.

If I am pulled over while operating within the constraints of the law, you bet that'll be the FIRST thing I say.

I'm not afraid to speak up for my rights, as a parent, or otherwise.

 

[cjbcam]

That is interesting. Germany has an interesting schedule of a few weeks on one week off and similar. Various fragments here and there to allow. Summer off is a hold over from no AC. Granted there are many schools that do not have AC. In my senior high we had one or, if it was a big room, two fans. I think this option has some merit and should be explored to some extent. There are several countries that work this schedule. About same amount of time off but broken up throughout the year.

This would be horrible for us as we only get a few hot months a year. Kids need to be outside during those months. But if we lived where it was warm/hot all the time I would love that schedule.

 

[slzer0]

I think, really more than anything, this thread is indicative of many varied and strong opinions about our education system in general. I think it's clear that in this country, we need a change. What that change should be, isn't quite as clear.

Thanks, OP, for giving everyone a chance to vent and speak their minds.

Looks like there won't be any consensus on vacation absences, but what a discussion!

 

[tweis]

I just spent several minutes reading through this thread and most have valid points. We had never even considered taking our children out of school for a cruise or any other vacation until recently. We were booked on the Fantasy for the last week of May 2014 with the cruise leaving the day after school let out. The problem was that we didn't realize when we booked that my son was scheduled to be with his dad that week and my stepson, with his mom. By the time I realized our mistake, the prices for the next few weeks after our original date had risen tremendously and we were not willing to pay the higher prices. We instead, are choosing to take them out of school the last week of April. This is not our spring break week but I can't take off work until after April 15th. This is however, after the all important CRCT tests. We could have gone in September or October but I felt it was better for MY children to take them out of school closer to the end of the school year versus shortly after school starts.

These will be unexcused absenses but we are working with their teachers and hope that it will all go smoothly. We have booked April 2015 in anticipation of everything going well but if they have any problems or fall behind, we will gladly move the cruise to summer vacation.

 

[lbgraves]

My family is going to miss the year-round schedule next year after four years of kids in middle school. The first year and this year only one of them have that schedule, but it has been great. Having only one kid at home at a time for most of their breaks has allowed me to spend one-on-one time with each of them. I hadn't been able to do that since they were in preschool. I know that my daughter especially has benefited from the nine weeks on, three weeks off with a 4 1/2 week break in the summer. The kids don't get burned out, in addition to not spending the first month of school reviewing. I really am NOT looking forward to the endless summer next year. DS has already gotten permission to take an online class from HS counselor. It's through NCVPS, and he started taking HS classes through the virtual public school in 7th grade. He actually prefers that to dealing with the constant interruptions & disrespect in class by kids who are only there because it's the law. He was in class with other HS students, and the classwork was challenging for him -- which he needed. The structure of the class also taught him to manage his time since the list of assignments was given Monday and kids were on their own to get the work done by Friday. This was with a block schedule, so an entire course covered in one semester. Now that he is in HS, these skills have helped him in his freshman year and he started out with four credits. This allows him to take additional math & science classes, though he could graduate early without them. Not every student who did this at his MS did well. If your child is motivated, structured, and determined to learn, they might do very well with online classes.

ETA: They are doing away with YR schools here next year. The ultimate reason is that they desperately need to redistrict but most of the schools involved would move a child from a traditional school to YR or vice versa. Changing the schedule takes away the argument parents have about the change of schedule.

 

[Summerl30]

No we can take our kids out of school when we want. I choose not to if they are having trouble in a certain subject or if it's a standardized testing year, which can be stressful on the kids already without missing extra school. My kids are high in most areas this year (not the case last year. One of my girls was struggling with math AND it was a standardized testing year for math). I didn't realize until past our pic date how much she was struggling or else I wouldn't have taken her out. Thankfully by the test she was feeling much better about it. And it was only 3 days of missed school so the teacher just kept her in for recess a few days.

In our school system the real problem is when teachers are expected to keep children, of whom are sometimes low, up to standard when they miss a month or more when they go on vacation. My sister is a teacher, and that's when she recommends the parents buy the book, shows them the sections they are to cover and if when they get back, they haven't done the work, they get a "insufficient data" on their report card instead of a grade.

We were planning in taking them out in June (report cards are done by then even though there are still 3 weeks of school). What my kids did in June last year was ridiculous. I am willing to do the last two weeks of May for a good deal, though as that's just review. Nothing is booked as of yet. In two years I'll have two doing standardized testing so I will likely not vacation during the year (well, maybe After early June when the test is) that year again.

We do have to tell the school ahead of time and the teachers so if they want to send anything along they have the time to do so. It works out as two of the three of ours are going to be studying canada in geography and we are going to vancouver and Yukon on our travels this year.

 

[Jey12]

Reading through these posts makes me happy about our district's vacation policy. DD7 is in 2nd grade and she's been pulled out for a week or so every year since preschool. Last year wasn't for a vacation, she caught a nasty bug and was out for almost 2 weeks off and on over a month's time. I didn't feel comfortable with her missing any more school so I was glad we didn't have a trip planned. As for taking her out for a vacation all I needed to do was write a letter to the principal stating she would be gone on these dates and for this reason. Principal approved it and sent me an email asking if she could join us. I kept an open line of communication with her teacher before and after the trip and there were no issues at all. Absences were marked excused. Honestly her gym team coach grumbled more about her being gone for a week than her school did.

Personally I feel if a student is doing well academically, socially and otherwise in the classroom there's really no reason why a week of vacation should be marked unexcused. Now I don't try to pretend, and thankfully don't have to, with our school that we are taking an "educational" trip. Sure DD learns things, and I have no problem taking an hour each day to do school work and things. But we're on vacation and I won't insult her school with saying us sitting by the pool all day should count as a learning experience. But I did make a point for her to learn and do an activity learning the different sides of the ship and what they are called, things about the ports we visited, etc...and to me those things are a lot more practical than whatever she was taught in school on Columbus day about Columbus. I'm a twisted mom and can turn anything into a math problem. For example. You ordered 2 Mickey bars from room service. They brought you 10. How many extra bars did we receive than were ordered? Give me the correct answer and you can have your Mickey bar.

 

[bats]

Here in the UK you can get fined for taking your child out if school. It's a different cost for where you live, but where I am, it's £100 ($160) per parent per day of the absence.

The cost of holidays, especially package holidays to Europe are astronomical during the main summer break (late July to early Sept) and also during our half terms (Feb and Oct) and Easter. Prices outside of these times are about half so I see why people remove their children.

Our Government says it values families with the traditional 2 parent household, but it then fines both parents for unauthorised absences. A single parent would get just one fine.

There has to be middle ground for this ... Like some have said, they can't get time off during holidays due to their own job .. Do we say those people shouldn't have a holiday? Thought needs to go into this as there is no right or wrong ... Just what each person thinks.

I have no children of my own, but I have grandchildren through my hubby to be. They are being taken out of school for our wedding on the WBTA next year. Luckily they will be 5 and 9 so no exams being done at that time. It's not perfect and they'll need to catch up, but they will. They've never flown before, never been on a ship and only the older one has ever been on a holiday .... They are going to build some magical memories to tell their teachers.

 

[Summerl30]

Reading through these posts makes me happy about our district's vacation policy. DD7 is in 2nd grade and she's been pulled out for a week or so every year since preschool. Last year wasn't for a vacation, she caught a nasty bug and was out for almost 2 weeks off and on over a month's time. I didn't feel comfortable with her missing any more school so I was glad we didn't have a trip planned. As for taking her out for a vacation all I needed to do was write a letter to the principal stating she would be gone on these dates and for this reason. Principal approved it and sent me an email asking if she could join us. I kept an open line of communication with her teacher before and after the trip and there were no issues at all. Absences were marked excused. Honestly her gym team coach grumbled more about her being gone for a week than her school did. Personally I feel if a student is doing well academically, socially and otherwise in the classroom there's really no reason why a week of vacation should be marked unexcused. Now I don't try to pretend, and thankfully don't have to, with our school that we are taking an "educational" trip. Sure DD learns things, and I have no problem taking an hour each day to do school work and things. But we're on vacation and I won't insult her school with saying us sitting by the pool all day should count as a learning experience. But I did make a point for her to learn and do an activity learning the different sides of the ship and what they are called, things about the ports we visited, etc...and to me those things are a lot more practical than whatever she was taught in school on Columbus day about Columbus. I'm a twisted mom and can turn anything into a math problem. For example. You ordered 2 Mickey bars from room service. They brought you 10. How many extra bars did we receive than were ordered? Give me the correct answer and you can have your Mickey bar.

Last year both their teachers and the vice principal were trying to convince me how education travelling was for the kids. And also that family time was important (dh can't take much vacation time during their off time)

 

[Bonniec]

I live in Celebration, Fl and the school is very strict here. I've noticed throughout Florida, it can vary and a lot of it is up to how strict the school wants to be.

In our case, we notified the school in writing. The principal declined it and I told her we would be going regardless. I am in the camp that doesn't like to be told what to do with my child. And I know that schools can decide on a case by case basis. His teacher told me the principal never approves vacation for anyone. I can somewhat understand. I volunteer and there are kids that miss school a lot with no note, kids that are behind, etc. So I can see the flip side. But we cause no problems.

When we got back, I got a letter about the missed days and a threat of truancy to which I responded back rather bluntly. He is advanced, rarely misses school, never gets in trouble, I do my volunteer work, etc. (and I would have had no problems defending my actions and have another vacation planned next grade). Not to mention, I told them several times where and what he would be doing! After that, they dropped it.

I will also say that I was prepared to homeschool if they fought me on it. Before we moved here, he was in a bad school and I pulled him out and did the virtual school. That program is wonderful and it's still public school. So when we moved, he was able to jump right back into it and not be behind. The only reason I didn't continue is that he likes being around other kids and having friends in school. Plus if I work we get more vacations (lol). But if I had to do homeschool again, I would.

And one last thing, his teacher was fantastic. She had no decision in the denial part. I didn't expect her to put a packet together for my son, but she did. She also told me not worry about him missing anything because he has no problems in that department at all. She just wanted him to have fun. So I was very grateful to her for being so good about it.




I don't think school absences are a black and white issue. And I don't mind their current policies, as long as they can keep deciding case by case. I do think this country (US) does not give enough vacation allowances for most people (children and adults). We've lost sight of the importance of spending family time together. I'm just grateful that I have the option of virtual school if I needed to. Not everyone could do that if they relied on two incomes. Or if they were getting fined like the UK is doing now (that is ridiculous).

 

[PaceFamily]

If I am pulled over while operating within the constraints of the law, you bet that'll be the FIRST thing I say. I'm not afraid to speak up for my rights, as a parent, or otherwise.

Agreed, as am I. However, when the laws/rules are not in your favor in this case... You see people responding everywhere that this is an action that is against the laws on the books. You do not get to choose to ignore laws because they are not what you want. Again, please show me where your school district allows family vacation as an excused absence. If you do not like the laws, run for office and change them. Laws are black and white. When they begin creating gray areas things go wrong in a big way. Just look at the state of things in the US.

Fact is that no matter what facts are provided or what people tell you, you will do what you want. As one poster stated, her leave was denied but she still went. Fine for her. If you can make it work then good for you and your kids. If not then take your chances. Mot my job to turn you in.

As for the comment about the discussion, I could not agree more. Lively discussion (especially when they do not turn to nasty personal attacks) are always fun and entertaining for all. They allow individuals to share thoughts and conversations. Thanks to places like the DIS we are able to have this great place to share.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

 

[4 The Love Of Disney]

If you do not like the laws, run for office and change them.

Exactly!

 

[TCrawford095]

Well of course they have extra work to do, a school day is 6 hours long, a typical work day in the private sector is 8 1/2 hours minimum, with roughly 3 weeks vacation per year. I would expect teachers to have 2 1/2 hours of prep and planning outside of the 6 hour work day to get up to a full days work.

I have to be ready for my students to come in the room at 7:50. My last student leaves, on average, around 3:45. I get no scheduled breaks during the day. My lunch is a working lunch, and my planning period is usually filled with meetings. On an average day, I leave around 6pm. I'm not complaining. I understand that this is the job I signed up for, and I'm ok with that. I just want correct the poster that we have more than a 6 hour work day.

 

[Dug720]

I have to be ready for my students to come in the room at 7:50. My last student leaves, on average, around 3:45. I get no scheduled breaks during the day. My lunch is a working lunch, and my planning period is usually filled with meetings. On an average day, I leave around 6pm. I'm not complaining. I understand that this is the job I signed up for, and I'm ok with that. I just want correct the poster that we have more than a 6 hour work day.

 

[TCrawford095]

Yes there is one way to solve the question for a standardized test. But the same answer can be arrived at in many ways as a LIFE SKILL.
Not everyone thinks of learning in terms of standardized testing.

I think in multiple terms when it comes to student learning. If I didn't, parents would come to me at the end of the year and complain that I didn't prepare the students for the test. Believe me, I hate and resent the fact that we put so much emphasis on high stakes testing, but I didn't create the system. I just have to play by its rules.

Just to provide you with a little perspective on why teachers ask students to complete a problem a certain way. I get this question from time to time. Take for example the equation: x+2=6. Pretty simple, right? Any 1st grader can look at the problem and tell you the answer is 4. However, I make my students subtract 2 from both sides of the equation in order to obtain the answer. Why do I do that? Because I have to teach them the skills needed to solve harder problems. You can do x+2=6 in your head, but it is much more difficult to solve 2x+6+3x-3/4+5x-1/4=25 in your head. (That's a middle school problem, btw). Students need to learn simpler problems a certain way so that they have the problem attack skills to learn the harder problems. It's the same way with the graphing problem I proposed earlier. Those graphs do not get easier to draw and interpret in high school-- even if you can find another way to solve them in middle school.

 

[TCrawford095]

Here in the UK you can get fined for taking your child out if school. It's a different cost for where you live, but where I am, it's £100 ($160) per parent per day of the absence.

The cost of holidays, especially package holidays to Europe are astronomical during the main summer break (late July to early Sept) and also during our half terms (Feb and Oct) and Easter. Prices outside of these times are about half so I see why people remove their children.

Our Government says it values families with the traditional 2 parent household, but it then fines both parents for unauthorised absences. A single parent would get just one fine.

There has to be middle ground for this ... Like some have said, they can't get time off during holidays due to their own job .. Do we say those people shouldn't have a holiday? Thought needs to go into this as there is no right or wrong ... Just what each person thinks.

I have no children of my own, but I have grandchildren through my hubby to be. They are being taken out of school for our wedding on the WBTA next year. Luckily they will be 5 and 9 so no exams being done at that time. It's not perfect and they'll need to catch up, but they will. They've never flown before, never been on a ship and only the older one has ever been on a holiday .... They are going to build some magical memories to tell their teachers.

Wow that's awful! I think everyone should think carefully before missing school, but fines? And double if you're married? That's just not fair.

 

[cjbcam]

I have to be ready for my students to come in the room at 7:50. My last student leaves, on average, around 3:45. I get no scheduled breaks during the day. My lunch is a working lunch, and my planning period is usually filled with meetings. On an average day, I leave around 6pm. I'm not complaining. I understand that this is the job I signed up for, and I'm ok with that. I just want correct the poster that we have more than a 6 hour work day.

I don't even know how that's possible. I have a teaching degree (don't teach because chose to use degree for something else), my uncle teaches, my BIL teaches, my sister teaches. I know when I did my interning most teachers stayed till maybe half an hour after the bell. So they work 8 till 4 at most with lunch break and prep hour. When I was on Mat leave I babysat for my sister and BIL they would drop baby off at 7:30 and were never later than 4:30. Unless they were coaching. It's those marvelous teachers that spend all those hours coaching that would work more than those seven hours, I include prep hour as work but not lunch because that's not working. I agree most people think teachers don't deserve the pay or holidays or whatever but to those people I say if it is so easy and you think they make too much money then why aren't you a teacher. But on the other hand teachers can't pretend they've worked the the same amount of hours each year that a person who's not a teacher does. Call a spade a spade.

 

[TheLanes]

I don't even know how that's possible. I have a teaching degree (don't teach because chose to use degree for something else), my uncle teaches, my BIL teaches, my sister teaches. I know when I did my interning most teachers stayed till maybe half an hour after the bell. So they work 8 till 4 at most with lunch break and prep hour. When I was on Mat leave I babysat for my sister and BIL they would drop baby off at 7:30 and were never later than 4:30. Unless they were coaching. It's those marvelous teachers that spend all those hours coaching that would work more than those seven hours, I include prep hour as work but not lunch because that's not working. I agree most people think teachers don't deserve the pay or holidays or whatever but to those people I say if it is so easy and you think they make too much money then why aren't you a teacher. But on the other hand teachers can't pretend they've worked the the same amount of hours each year that a person who's not a teacher does. Call a spade a spade.

That's ridiculous! Teachers are so underpaid for what they do! (I'm not a teacher to clarify).

Most people probably agree with me!

Good teachers spend time at home grading and prepping. Lousy teachers shirk all that. Just like regular workers, there are good and bad ones.

 

[CruiseCrazy44]

NOT a personal attack on you, but this no textbook issue has been a pet peeve of mine as a parent for a long time! Non linear education makes it very difficult for students to follow along. Whether on vacation, or struggling in general, or simply trying to review concepts as concepts progress and build cumulatively. If a teacher chooses to teach without a textbook - an issue I find causes MANY problems for students! - then they should be responsible for providing work for a student who will be out.... Unlesd "no textbook" is an excuse to just make up curriculum as you go along? Of course not. Lesson plans are submitted ahead of time. College educators provide a syllabus. It is not unreasonable to expect this of teachers. In light of prepared lesson plans, teachers who act put upon by parents DARING to request the lessons early are quite frustrating. Copy and paste your lesson plan into an email and stop punishing, guilting, and intimidating your parents. Remember they pay your salary. You know, the one you receive during your 14 WEEK annual paid vacation. **And as an aside - anyone planning a DCL vacation would have no problem answering your question above. Simple budgeting lol. Maybe not on a graph, but then there is always more than one way to solve a problem.

Ok, remember, I homeschool, so I've opted out of all this drama. That being said, I'm also the child of two public school teachers and I take offense of you throwing a teacher's vacation I to this discussion. Most people have absolutely no idea how many hours a day good teachers ( not lazy, complacent ones of course) spend on their school work everyday. There was no day during the week that my parents did not spend a minimum of ten hours a day on their school work, teaching, planning, grading papers, talking with parents, going to school board meetings and parent/teacher organizations. There were no weekends during the school year that they did not work on school work. You know how some people listen to the sound of the beach to go to sleep? I like the sound of a typewriter. Since that was the sound I went to bed to every night. Now, add in that teachers are now only allowed to teach to that blasted test, they are paid lower than just about any other career that requires a college degree and that they have to put up with both sides of the parenting pendulum from parents that are never satisfied that you are doing enough for their special wonder child, to the parents that can't be bothered to answer emails or come to parent conferences, I say that those weeks of vacation are not only earned but necessary for the sanity of said teachers!
Teachers are disrespected and minimized in our culture. That said, and bile purged, some of the teachers posting on here do not acknowledge the rights of parents. They also seem to ignore the shortcomings of the current public school system.