$8.40+$4.11=$12.51

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by Richyams
I didn't see anyone dissing occasional renters. I don't see that anywhere.

Its the business, its securing prime ressies and renting them out on Ebay ........ Its buying points to only use weekdays for renting because you can make more money.

These things done regularly and as a business really do hurt members in many ways.

Agreed.

 

[Mrs. Snowgod]

Thanks for your reply, Rich. That clears up alot. Certainly clarifies Gail's comments as well.

That's the problem with frequenting these boards sporatically - just when I stop visiting after the 17th refilliable mug thread in a week makes me want to go postal, I miss the interesting stuff!

Carry on

 

[rccomputers]

I figured I would add my two cents or 10.00 per point as it may be.

I am in this to maximize my vacation dollar. DVC lets me do that. While we vacation at Disney often, occasionally we go somewhere else. Instead of using member services, I have done a direct exchange with another timeshare owner or rented my points to pay for another timeshare rental. I have also paid cash for the cruise and rented my points to pay for the cruise. It was half the cost for the cruise if you use the 10.00 per point figure.

I do my vacation planning well in advance and my points are never near expiration requiring me to reduce my price.

It is only because of the rent/trade board right here that has added and even made my DVC investment that much more valuable. Would I like to get more then 10 for my points? Sure that would be great, and I am sure that day will come along as point prices and room rates continue to rise. Right now I will continue to ask 10.00 per point and not reduce my price.

Just and additional note. It is NOT illegal if a group of point renters agreed that it is time to raise the price of rental points. We are not public companies, or in the business of renting timeshares. The market sets the price regardless of what people may ask for to rent the points. If the price is too high, don’t rent. The price will come down. Most people here rent because they have a need to not because it is a business. Those that do it for a business will move on to greener pastures if they can find them. If not, they will meet the prices being asked.

 

[Caskbill]

From nuthut's original post, does that mean that any points he may have purchased way back, say at OKW for about $65/point should rent for less?

Let's see, $65/point, a reasonable 5% return, and OKW dues puts the rental at about $6.65/point.

 

[RobDoc]

It is NOT illegal if a group of point renters agreed that it is time to raise the price of rental points. We are not public companies, or in the business of renting timeshares.

The FTC seems to take a different view of this, however. If any group, public company or not, conspires to set a price for rental, they will fall under the scrutiny and jurisdiction of the Federal Trade Commission. An individual can certainly ask for any price he wishes, but when more than one colludes to set a price, that is viewed in a different context, whether you feel you are in the business of renting timeshares or not. (If you rent one time, you've entered the business.)

 

[CaptainMidnight]

(If you rent one time, you've entered the business.)

Actually, I don't agree with the above. To me the example of not being able to go on a trip because of a health problem and renting your points isn't the same as "securing prime ressies and renting them out on Ebay ........ buying points to only use weekdays for renting because you can make more money." Perhaps I'm wrong, but one seems like a business venture, and one does not. Just my take, I guess.

 

[nezy]

This is such an interesting thread. I think it may bother and even offend so many of us that someone actually uses his/her points as a business venture because WE would NEVER give up our time at a DVC resort unless we had to.

I am not familiar w/the original poster, but I do notice he is MIA since the original post. I have been reading many posts by many others who posted here like Rich, Zurg, Cptn. Midnight, Doc, NCLigs, Caskbill, Snowgood and Gail (just to name a few) and I have come to trust and respect your opinions. I am glad you are there, guys.

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

It has taken me 5 years to finally buy into dvc. Both financial and mental constraints have held me back. Prior to the last 2+ years, I could think a great number of investment opportunities that had would had a beter ROI. I think that the real investment and return in dvc is a mental one. Yes there are financial advantages down the road, but if you want to invest in real estate, why not REITs. This is a vacation club, and the primary people who will rent points are more than likely other dvc owners looking to top off their account (or non-dvcers that have heard that you might be able to get a deal by renting points from a dvc'er for less than you would have to pay CRO).

Personally, I do have issues when some one booking a bunch of time using points to turn around and sell them on ebay. But, the people that run and book all the CRT PS's and then try to sell those bother me more. It will be interesting to see how my feelings change the second that I can not book my own trip at the 11 motnh window, because somebody else is trying to make money on MY VACATION.

$10 a piont is fair. Never rented, probably never will now... I will more than likely not rent my points, unless some unforseen circumstances occur.

Edward

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Perhaps I should send this "nuthut" thread to DVC.
Normaly I'm a pretty easy going person, but I would love to put an end to this practice.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Gail, maybe I misinterpret your intent in making that comment, but I disagree with it... I view the ability to rent as something I don't actually plan to use, but nice to have "just in case". In most cases I expect it can be a win/win situation. So I think her misfortune is right on target as a very valid reason to rent out points, as opposed to someone trying to capitalize on their DVC investment for pure profit.

Yes, I think you did misinterpert what I said. I was saying she is not in the class of the people who rent out for profit, in her case, it was perfectly understandable and smart. Hence, the comment: Your misfortune is miles away from what this is about.
I thought I was pretty clear.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by Maistre Gracey
Perhaps I should send this "nuthut" thread to DVC.
Normaly I'm a pretty easy going person, but I would love to put an end to this practice.

I certainly agree 100% with that statement.

 

[vernon]

Doc said

(If you rent one time, you've entered the business

I would also disagree with this statement. Is it not the case that for tax purposes you are allowed to rent up to a couple of weeks worth of timeshare a year before you are liable to pay tax? If that is the case I would say that as far as the IRS is concerned they have a rough "blueprint" of what reflects a commercial concern as opposed to a private arrangement.

I have rented out points to family (travelling with me) and to friends who I thought would be interested in DVC, wanting to give them the opportunity of sampling DVC and a practical example of how DVC works. I greatly dislike the practice of booking busy times or Sun-Thurs slots without having a "punter" for that booking in order to maximise profit as I feel this is to the detriment of members of DVC. IMHO it isn't fair practice, it's taking abusing of a system for personal financial gain while showing contempt for other people's needs.

While I dislike the practice, I do think that any attempt to legislate against it would result in making life more difficult for a large part of the membership, with minimal effect on those prepared to bend or break the rules in order to line their own pockets. We all know Disney's literature mentions that DVC points should not be used for commercial purposes, so this practice already goes against those guidelines, but enforcing that policy would result in inconvenience for too many people to be worthwhile JMHO

 

[Richyams]

Different entities getting together to set a price is collusion. Those entities do NOT need to be public companies.

(If you rent one time, you've entered the business

I also disagree with this statement, for colusion purposes, you are in the business BEFORE you rent your first point, and your local and federal tax implications have no effect on this.

I also agree that legislating this would be very difficult. Maybe a better system of tracking occupant vs owner and seeing that the owner uses the points less than 10% of the time....but that could take years and have many excuses. I would guess that anything done would affect respectful members also.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by Richyams
Different entities getting together to set a price is collusion. Those entities do NOT need to be public companies.

I also disagree with this statement, for colusion purposes, you are in the business BEFORE you rent your first point, and your local and federal tax implications have no effect on this.

I also agree that legislating this would be very difficult. Maybe a better system of tracking occupant vs owner and seeing that the owner uses the points less than 10% of the time....but that could take years and have many excuses. I would guess that anything done would affect respectful members also.

The FTC has case after case where individuals collectively setting prices (or policies) for something have been viewed as a violation. This is true whether there are tax implications or not. My comment about "being in the business" was to include anyone- even an individual- who would collude to set a price. I'm not talking about the person who has an unusable reservation and rents the points to cover their maintenance fee. I am talking about someone who discusses what a minimal fee should be with others and then acts based on agreement with that discussion. Whether the FTC would act on something like DVC rental is an entirely different matter.

I have been a member of an organization charged in such a manner by the FTC and we took the matter thru state and federal appeals and then to the US Supreme Court before finally finding resolution. Both organizations (ours and the FTC, were found at fault by the Supreme Court ultimately).

As an individual, I can set whatever rate I want for a rental. Once I discuss and agree with others what the rate should be, I can be held liable to FTC rules. I'm certain some of the language in our DVC contracts is to provide relief to DVC in such matters. They have made it clear that they will offer no assistance with rental and that any member who does choose to rent will actually be competing with Disney in the rental of those rooms.

It's unlikely that DVC will change any contract language to address this (I also doubt that it is a big component of DVC resort occupancy). DVC has already covered itself legally within the existing contract. It is up to the members to personally cover themselves from a legal standpoint. My advice about agreeing on fees was offered in that light and not to infer that individuals who occasionally rent are doing anything wrong.

Discuss what to charge at your own risk.

 

[Richyams]

In other words, you agree with me completely.

You can actually be guilty of colusion before you rent your first point.

 

[Towncrier]

I wonder how nuthut would feel about the fact that the one and only time that I rented out my DVC points was back in 1997. I only asked my friends for $5/point and with the 150 points that they rented, they got a 2BR suite at OKW for 5 nights with four length-of-stay passes included.

I couldn't use the points as I had planned at DLP (due to seasonal adjustments in rates), so I was just looking for a little money to defray my costs of owning those points.

BTW - The guy that I rented my points to is now my boss.

 

[CRobin]

Originally posted by WebmasterDoc

Discuss what to charge at your own risk.

Well said, Doc.

Interestingly enough, I pulled up this from my Law Department's internal web site at work...

"The courts decided many years ago that certain practices, such as price fixing, are so inherently harmful to consumers that a detailed examination isn’t necessary to determine whether they are reasonable. The law presumes that they are violations (antitrust lawyers call these per se violations) and condemns them almost automatically"

 

[RWishbone]

I own at the BW and I have never rented out my points. I have, on occasion, rented points to supplement my points on occasion and I usually paid $9 -$10 per point. In my opinion, that was still a bargain compared not only to the rack rates but also to the going room rates at the time. I just have a hard time understanding why people seem to get upset when posters opine that the rental value should be more then $10 per point. If the "going rate" for point rentals increase, that only enhances the value of our points. There may be a time when I do want to rent out points for some reason and when and if that occurs, I want to maximize my rental price. In no way is that gouging or treating people unfairly. The people who continue to suggest that a fair rental price is in the $6 - $7 range are never to be found when it comes time to rent points. They gratuitously throw out the number but it has no basis in reality.

I would not rent out points as a side business as the OP clearly does and I also think that the concept of the DVC is not consistent with such a practice. However, I have a hard time understanding why people get upset and argue that it hurts our ownership. A poster above questioned why it was harmful and there was no response. Nuthut uses points for weekdays - so what? - so do a lot of members. There is absolutely no reason to believe that renters treat the place any different then owners. On the contary, the increase in demand - including the purchase by people such as Nuthut - can arguably add value to our interest in DVC. The idea is to make sure that the resorts are always fully sold and fully occupied or else we all end paying more in dues.

Rich

 

[Maistre Gracey]

The people who continue to suggest that a fair rental price is in the $6 - $7 range are never to be found when it comes time to rent points. They gratuitously throw out the number but it has no basis in reality.

The actual cost of a point to a member is between $6 and $7.

I would not rent out points as a side business as the OP clearly does and I also think that the concept of the DVC is not consistent with such a practice. However, I have a hard time understanding why people get upset and argue that it hurts our ownership. A poster above questioned why it was harmful and there was no response. Nuthut uses points for weekdays - so what? - so do a lot of members.

If you tried to book Christmas, and could not get it because nuthut has 20 weeks on e-bay, would you be upset???...I would.
(I realize he would not have 20 weeks on e-bay, but combined with others like him, there could be many more than 20).

There is absolutely no reason to believe that renters treat the place any different then owners. On the contary, the increase in demand - including the purchase by people such as Nuthut - can arguably add value to our interest in DVC. The idea is to make sure that the resorts are always fully sold and fully occupied or else we all end paying more in dues.

Once the resort is sold, I don't think it matters if the resort is full.

 

[emacman]

Kungaloosh and touche' Maistre Gracie!!!!! Very well done.