75 Points Direct vs. Resale

[Bruin_mouse]

I've racked my brain on this and keep going in mental circles, so I thought I'd seek out the wisdom of the crowd. For better or for worse I've decided that I want to add on to my (hopefully) soon to be closed subsidized 100 point Aulani contract. The optimal amount of points I'd like to add is somewhere between 50 and 75. As most people know finding a contract that small resale in your use year is very challenging, so that seems to be the one situation where buying direct is (maybe reluctantly by some) recommended.

My issue is that the resale v. direct price difference on Aulani is about $100/point. The smallest resale contracts that are still relatively common are around 120 or so points. My mental difficulty is that even though I'll pay quite a bit less per point up front, I'll be paying annual maintenance fees at $7.54/point on about 45 points that I do not want or need. In this specific example I'm looking at a cost difference of about $2,500 more for direct. While I hate paying more upfront, I can make sense of it because: 1) I'll be paying less in MFs and 2) (although this is admittedly a small factor) I'll get direct purchase perks. The ease of buying direct vs. resale is nice but not meaningful for me. Just wanted to hear any thoughts folks have. Thanks in advance.

 

[supersnoop]

I’d wait for a small contract to come around.

 

[Dean]

I've racked my brain on this and keep going in mental circles, so I thought I'd seek out the wisdom of the crowd. For better or for worse I've decided that I want to add on to my (hopefully) soon to be closed subsidized 100 point Aulani contract. The optimal amount of points I'd like to add is somewhere between 50 and 75. As most people know finding a contract that small resale in your use year is very challenging, so that seems to be the one situation where buying direct is (maybe reluctantly by some) recommended.

My issue is that the resale v. direct price difference on Aulani is about $100/point. The smallest resale contracts that are still relatively common are around 120 or so points. My mental difficulty is that even though I'll pay quite a bit less per point up front, I'll be paying annual maintenance fees at $7.54/point on about 45 points that I do not want or need. In this specific example I'm looking at a cost difference of about $2,500 more for direct. While I hate paying more upfront, I can make sense of it because: 1) I'll be paying less in MFs and 2) (although this is admittedly a small factor) I'll get direct purchase perks. The ease of buying direct vs. resale is nice but not meaningful for me. Just wanted to hear any thoughts folks have. Thanks in advance.

A smaller one can be found resale if that's what you want/need. I'd buy slightly larger resale rather than going retail for Aulani. You can always rent out the points every couple of years if you truly end up not needing them. I'd make sure you buy a cushion of at least 20% in this situation over what you judge you'll need, you'll be glad you did if there's a reallocation and likely glad you did even if one never occurs. If you bought an extra 25 points and invested the savings over retail on 75, you wouldn't end up behind until around 30 years away making reasonable assumptions on long term investments and inflation.

 

[Bruin_mouse]

Thanks @supersnoop and especially @Dean for your feedback. Your advice makes good sense to me Dean, so I decided to put in a bid for the 120 point resale contract I've been eyeing. Worst case I'll be spending more time in Hawaii, woe is me.

 

[Dean]

Thanks @supersnoop and especially @Dean for your feedback. Your advice makes good sense to me Dean, so I decided to put in a bid for the 120 point resale contract I've been eyeing. Worst case I'll be spending more time in Hawaii, woe is me.

Assuming DVC in HI makes sense for you in general, I think that's smart. There are ways to get extra $$$ or extra value from the additional points. It'll give you more options for usage and open up other contracts to consider if this one falls through. If you bought less and decided you needed more later, that'd raise your cost likely around another $750 or so to get to where you are looking at now. Plus you'll likely get a slightly better price per point at this size rather than smaller.

It sounds like you're just looking at HI. Have you looked at other timeshare options that work there? Often DVC is not the best choice just for HI.

 

[Bruin_mouse]

Thanks Dean, I really appreciate your input on this and from a lot of your other posts on here. I actually bookmarked your post giving an overview of the other timeshare systems you've had experience with. For years I was a "never ever buy a timeshare" guy, and then in August I stumbled onto a glowing post about DVC on a financial board I read. That caught me off guard since the posters tend to be very conservative and frugal financially. I came onto this board and that started my research that's been ongoing since August (even though now I own a VGC and BLT contract). When I started looking into Hawaii, I believe I read one of your posts that said there are better timeshare options in Hawaii than Aulani. Based on your post that I bookmarked I started researching Marriott Vacation Club on tugbbs one night but my brain said "fuggetaboutit," and shutdown. I didn't have the mental energy to learn the ins and outs of another timeshare system. From the reviews I read, I think Aulani and Oahu will give me my Hawaii fix every couple years until I retire. After I retire my goal is to learn a lot about timeshares like you, purchase outside the DVC ecosystem, and make timeshare trips my hobby. Thanks again!

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean, I really appreciate your input on this and from a lot of your other posts on here. I actually bookmarked your post giving an overview of the other timeshare systems you've had experience with. For years I was a "never ever buy a timeshare" guy, and then in August I stumbled onto a glowing post about DVC on a financial board I read. That caught me off guard since the posters tend to be very conservative and frugal financially. I came onto this board and that started my research that's been ongoing since August (even though now I own a VGC and BLT contract). When I started looking into Hawaii, I believe I read one of your posts that said there are better timeshare options in Hawaii than Aulani. Based on your post that I bookmarked I started researching Marriott Vacation Club on tugbbs one night but my brain said "fuggetaboutit," and shutdown. I didn't have the mental energy to learn the ins and outs of another timeshare system. From the reviews I read, I think Aulani and Oahu will give me my Hawaii fix every couple years until I retire. After I retire my goal is to learn a lot about timeshares like you, purchase outside the DVC ecosystem, and make timeshare trips my hobby. Thanks again!

Obviously there is a lot that goes in to such a decision but if HI is the plan, I think most would be better off with a different system like Hilton, Marriott, Wyndham or Westin/Starwood. Aulani is great but it's one resort on one island, often the island most skip after a trip or 2, and often more expensive that many other options. The others are often cheaper and/or give more options, not necessarily better or worse depending, just different.

 

[Bruin_mouse]

Well shucks then. Looks like I might have to move my plan a few years to the left. Since you seem fairly adamant about this, and obviously know far more than me, I guess I'll take a second hack at learning about the other systems in Hawaii.

 

[Dean]

Well shucks then. Looks like I might have to move my plan a few years to the left. Since you seem fairly adamant about this, and obviously know far more than me, I guess I'll take a second hack at learning about the other systems in Hawaii.

There's no one size fits all. Aulani only for one person might be perfect but for others it wouldn't be. The other options I mentioned are great also but they are all different. But what all do is give you more options for HI than does DVC. Our goal is to go to HI every 4 years and owning DVC as well as Marriott, I have no intentions of staying at Aulani as the main option. Actually we'll be there for 3 weeks coming up with a total of a 1 BR on Maui, three 2BR on Oahu (close to Aulani) and three 2 BR on Kauai all with Marriott. No way to do that with DVC.

 

[Bruin_mouse]

Interesting. I remember in your post that you said Marriott has a couple different systems, one that's like DVC but more expensive than the other option. I'll need to go educate myself on those. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Dean]

Interesting. I remember in your post that you said Marriott has a couple different systems, one that's like DVC but more expensive than the other option. I'll need to go educate myself on those. Thanks for the tip.

Yes, Marriott has the older weeks system and the newer points system with a crossover function. The weeks is likely cheaper and the points more flexible. But it's not like your going to HI for the weekend, you'll normally stay a week or 2. Since I know Marriott best of these, I'll concentrate my thoughts there but you should look at the resorts for the various systems and then try to get a better feel for the systems that have resorts that fit your thoughts.

For Marriott one could buy either their points resale or a "Hybrid" package retail for roughly the same price. Let's look at enough points for 2 weeks in a 2 BR, maybe 12K points yearly. Buy in around $85K with yearly fees around $6K. Buy 2 weeks EY for around $10-20K depending on the resort and view but could be much more up front if one of the weeks were a higher view or fixed week for Maui and yearly fees around $5K. Contrast that to Aulani at around $100K up front and yearly fees of $7500 for a 2 BR for 2 weeks. For smaller units the numbers aren't as bad and may favor DVC financially in some situations but you still only have the one option. Of course one could do both, buy DVC and another option and for many, that's often the best plan assuming sufficient volume to reap the savings. Or maybe you buy elsewhere and trade to HI routinely. Just spend enough time and effort so you know what's right for you and your situation. Don't rush in. A year or 2 renting is a good investment in a better long term plan.

 

[Bruin_mouse]

Thanks again Dean for your generosity with your time and knowledge. I have so much to learn. I wonder if it'd be a foul to research Marriott timeshares while sipping a cocktail at the Aulani pool?

 

[Dean]

Thanks again Dean for your generosity with your time and knowledge. I have so much to learn. I wonder if it'd be a foul to research Marriott timeshares while sipping a cocktail at the Aulani pool?

I don't think so, nor the reverse sitting at the Marriott nearby. But don't spend months researching a system that you could know up front doesn't fit your needs. You may want to contact me directly and we can discuss more specifics, that might help a bit to narrow down your focus and minimize any non DVC related issues here. But my basic process would be to look where I wanted to go and how I wanted to use it. Look at the area and resorts (quality, villa size, location) and see what resorts would be acceptable and which resorts would be desired. For HI the ones I mentioned all have potential for great resorts on 2 or more islands. Hilton is slated to build on maui, Marriott covers 4 islands, Westin Covers 2 islands, Hilton (trades in RCI) covers 2 islands & supposed to build in Maui, Wyndham covers 3 islands. Wyndham will be MUCH cheaper and offer more flexibility in some ways but doesn't have the quality of the others. I don't know as much about Diamond but they cover 4 islands. I've stayed at 2 of their resorts before they were the management company. They have the top RCI resort for Maui but it's well below Hyatt, Westin and Marriott there. By reputation they have high fees and can be difficult to deal with. I think of them as similar to Wyndham but maybe a iittle lower though they do cover some areas all that others don't like Europe.

So my situation for HI is I want to go 2-3 weeks every 4 years, then 3-4 weeks EOY once I retire. I know I look higher end options but it doesn't have to be the Ritz and that I want/need a 1BR when it's just us and at times I'll need multiple villas for part of the time for family to go (like this summer). I have other Marriott's so I use a combination of options tied together. I own 2 EOY weeks there (just bought the second), I own points with Marriott (a few) and I have enrolled weeks (weeks I can trade for timeshare points not reward points). I belong to II (RCI for other things) and I'm comfortable exchanging. So I reserved the one week I owned when I started this process, set up exchange requests and then when the window opened to use points, I reserved what I needed otherwise that way. As exchanges came through and as I was able to upgrade a couple of exchanges to larger units, I started canceling the points reservations. So while I started out with a points reservation for a 1 BR in Maui, an owned 2BR plus a 2 BR and a studio for Oahu and 3 Waiohai 2 BR reservations on Kauai; I am now to a 1 BR Maui exchange, two 2BR + two 1BR for Oahu all on exchange and two 2BR for Kauai by exchange plus another 2BR there on points. And I'm still fine turning up until the point where I can't change or cancel without penalty.

An EY 2 week trip in a 2BR might look as I posted above. An EOY 1 BR/studio for 2 weeks might look like 5000 Trust or Hybrid points or a single EOY week at Ko Olina with lockoff and exchange to another Marriott in HI through II. The variations and options are many.