6th grader gets 0 for plagiarism rant long

[BavarianPrincess]

1. to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
2. to use (another's production) without crediting the source
3. to commit literary theft
4. to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.

In other words, plagiarism is an act of fraud. It involves both stealing someone else's work and lying about it afterward.

That's the Merriam-Webster definition, followed by a two sentence commentary from plagiarism.org.

Your DS did not commit plagiarism, which is an intentional act. Your son made a mistake. I'd be hopping mad in your shoes, and I hope that the school board is receptive to your concerns.

 

[denisenh]

I agree with shortbun. I have personally witnessed bright students turned off to education by unfair and/or unrealistic expectations being imposed.

It almost sounds like someone wants to knock you and your family down a few notches and for what? Because you are involved in your sons school? Because you take your sons education seriously? Isn't that what we want from parents?

I honestly do not see this issue being settled to your satisfaction, just from what I have read so far regarding the situation. Sounds like heels are dug in and it takes an emotionally and mentally "big person" to budge after the fact.

You and your son may have to "swallow hard" because of the above, but even though your child's instructor missed an "academic teaching moment", you can make this a "life lesson" for your son. Something along the lines of what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

I think that the biggest shame in all of this is the example that your sons instructor and the administration are setting. This truly saddens me.

 

[Cindy B]

I have a few things to say:

1) My son was taught proper MLA citation by about midway through 5th grade, so that he would know it in middle school-6th grade.

His school went over it again in 6th grade.

My daughter- 5th grade, knows some, but not all.

2) There are tons of software available for citations if you do not know the format. These include son of citation machine and others (google if you need to)

As for not citing the footnotes and quotation, I always think --when in doubt, cite!

If he did directly cut and paste into the paper for a "correction"
then it is plagiarism.

3) I bet now he will know the true way to cite papers. It is better to learn it in 6th grade instead of high school or college.

 

[chris1gill]

So true. And what we are repeatedly telling our son - that it's better to learn this now than in high school or college.

To clarify: when he originally turned in his report, what the teacher wrote on it was that she wanted more background information - not more citing or quotations. That wasn't mentioned at all. Most of what he wrote at that time was his own general knowledge. (Science and math are his strong subjects). The material he cut and pasted then listed in his bibliography was not properly quotated and footnoted. That's where the charge of plagiarism came from.

You know, I'm the first one to take the teacher's side when my son has goofed up, whether he meant to or not, but not in this case... granted my son has been taught footnoting and citation, he's not an expert at it... if he'd not actually sat in a classroom and learned about this stuff, no way would I let this fly. I would be the mother they would hate to see.... and if they do give him a zero, call every single time the teacher plagiarizes something without making a notation with footnotes... This would REALLY tick me off. OK to lowering the grade, fine, if they want to be that way about it, without having taught the fundamentals, but a zero? Hmm, NO!

Anyhow, we recently had a grading issue, use this time to teach your son proper footnoting and citation, and tell him you're still proud of him, and next term he'll make the honor roll.

 

[golfgal]

Without seeing the actual project and only getting one side of the story it is really impossible to say if the school was harsh or not. Teachers don't give out zeros lightly, especially to honor roll students. There has to be more to this story.

BTW, our kids learned citation in 4th grade when they started writing research papers. Copying a work word for word and putting quotes around it is still a pretty lazy way to do a project and I would probably not given credit for that either. The whole point is to be able to read something and put it into your own words and THEN cite the works. With computers today it is simple to cut and past off a story, cite your works and in 5 minutes have a 4 page paper done. Not exactly what teachers are after wouldn't you say?

Also, you only have 2 A students in your school? That is odd.

 

[CheshireVal]

Sixth graders know that cutting and pasting entire sections of sources is wrong. They don't need to know how to cite things yet to know that they should at least be paraphrasing/rewording their research.

A 0 might seem harsh, but I bet he learned a valuable lesson from it!

 

[DawnCt1]

I think it may be time to ask for a meeting with the Principal's boss, the superintendent. I would want to see the curriculum with regard to citing material and point out that the source is within the body of the paper, just not properly foot noted. This is a matter of principle.

 

[RitaZ.]

Without seeing the actual project and only getting one side of the story it is really impossible to say if the school was harsh or not. Teachers don't give out zeros lightly, especially to honor roll students. There has to be more to this story.

Actually, some do. My 6th grader has a teacher like that.

 

[ajk912]

You mentioned your wife is the PTA President. Part of me wonders if the teacher has a vendetta against your wife for whatever reason- and is trying to get back at your wife for some reason. Not sure why.

BTW, I think it is really harsh not to give him any credit at all. I can see points off, but a zero is REALLY harsh as others have said. I would take it up with the school board, not only for your son but to make them aware of what is going on in the school.

 

[Erin1700]

Sixth graders know that cutting and pasting entire sections of sources is wrong. They don't need to know how to cite things yet to know that they should at least be paraphrasing/rewording their research.

A 0 might seem harsh, but I bet he learned a valuable lesson from it!

I think this is where the difference is...it would be one thing if he wrote "some" copied words and not cited them, but it sounds like he copied an entire page (OP did he photocopy a page in a book) and pasted it on his paper. Maybe I am misunderstanding? BUt even if that is what he did, he should get a zero on the writing part and better grades on the rest.

 

[golfgal]

Actually, some do. My 6th grader has a teacher like that.

Perhaps your child isn't doing the required work. If a child gets a zero the child did something to deserve the grade.

 

[RitaZ.]

Perhaps your child isn't doing the required work. If a child gets a zero the child did something to deserve the grade.

Yes, of course. The students are always wrong.

 

[yeartolate]

Actually, some do. My 6th grader has a teacher like that.

Mine does as well.

He worked hard on a chapter outline and summary. HE forgot t in his locker. Zero. They are required to turn it in at start of class. No exceptions. Guess who remembers his stuff 100% of the time now.

Seriously.

 

[jrmasm]

I asked DD (7th grade) about this after reading your post. She said they covered citing and footnoting extensively in 6th grade. I asked if she knew cutting and pasting was wrong before 6th grade and she said yes.

If your son lifted material (cut and paste) I agree with the teacher. If he did minimal paraphrasing that he should still be penalized but a zero may be a bit much.

I'm sorry but I do not buy the agruement that 6th graders don't know that cutting and pasting is wrong. And I felt this way before I spoke to my daughter.

 

[wendy46001]

Sixth graders know that cutting and pasting entire sections of sources is wrong. They don't need to know how to cite things yet to know that they should at least be paraphrasing/rewording their research.

A 0 might seem harsh, but I bet he learned a valuable lesson from it!

I'm going to agree, if he copied and pasted an entire paragraph (word for word) that is not doing his own work.

 

[ocd4disney]

My DD is in 4th grade. This was the first year science fair was required. The teacher gave the students a timeline for completing each section of the project...which was really helpful for me since science isn't really one of my strong subjects. My DD was given a grade for each section turned in.


I find it a little harsh that the entire project your son turned in would get a zero. His teacher can hand it back and say this isn't enough information, go correct it, but won't hand it back saying this isn't in your own words, go correct it?

Isn't it possible that your son thought he needed backup info to support whatever he was trying to say in his own words? Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that quotes as evidence was what should be put in the report? In my opinion, he was added proof to the report he had written in his own words. I thought it was only plagiarism if you tried topass off the info as your own and did not cite the source

The teacher needs to get off her power trip....and you can quote me on that

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Sixth graders know that cutting and pasting entire sections of sources is wrong. They don't need to know how to cite things yet to know that they should at least be paraphrasing/rewording their research.

A 0 might seem harsh, but I bet he learned a valuable lesson from it!

What you said.

 

[Ariel Mae]

My son is in 6th grade. He is working on his first long paper, 5-8 pages. He has been aware of paraphrasing and or using quotes since 3rd grade but until this assignment hasn't needed to use the quotations

A little off topic, but..5 to 8 pages?

Holy Moly.

The first time I wrote anything over two or three pages was my English class in College. 102.

6th grade? I don't even think I knew what a book report was. Oh, well, I did. It had pretty pictures, and color, and drawings, and stuff.

I kid you not.

 

[StrwLady]

Grand Canyon,

I'm sorry to hear your son is going through something like this. I hope you can find the right channels to have this addressed and corrected.

If not I hope at least your son can take away from this the knowledge that, although at times there can be adversities in life and that fairness is not always paramount, it's best to rise above and take away some good from the experience.

Good Luck in your fight and some cyber hugs sent your sons way!

Hugs
Jamie

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

You know I really hate when teachers do this kind of thing, especially when a student has a good or great track record. It was too harsh. The last thing I think a teacher should do is turn school into a negative for a motivated student. Teach, not punish, in this circumstance. Tell him what he did was incorrect, subtract some points, leave it at a lowered grade and/or give him the chance to redo it. I mean shouldn't he get points for the parts of the project he did correctly?

I think the zero policy, no excuses thing is actually a way of not teaching. It's the lazy way out, a quick and dirty "let's get finished with this issue" thing, doesn't require any actual thinking, judgement, or like I said going back over it with the student and actually teaching. And probably keeps the school from getting sued over you did this for one student but not for the other. That's the same thing the principal is doing. Sadly, we see this a lot in our society.

I hope you can get this worked out.